Scottish Premiership Game 27: Kilmarnock (H) 17/02/18 15:00

[Yodo]

If we lose at at Dens next week Id say were unfortunately back in the mix.

Correct ,in this league you must win your home games .No square pegs in round holes at Dens next week play the players in their best position and pick the team accordingly so no 6 stone when soaking wet winger trying to play left wing back if he has to play its further up the pitch with somebody behind him

[Kmcalpin]

I've actually been thinking the luck has been getting repaid!

Can't agree with you, on this occasion, Superward. Going back to the Accies game in December, we had a stonewall penalty denied when the Accies defender armed the ball away in the box

 

In the Thistle game Osman ought to have seen red but didn't. Doolan's goal was touch and go offside but was allowed but Kipre's seemingly legit effort was chalked off.

 

In the Dundee game they should have lost 2 players to red cards (and us one) but didn't. Also Aldred's disallowed goal seemed fine.

 

Killie game: we could have 3 penalties (2 clear imho) when Ciftci and Aldred were pulled to the ground. Also Broadfoot's attempterd clearance cannoned off the post.

 

Hearts game I admit some penalty calls went for us.

 

As a caveat I'm not saying that we'd have scored with all the disallowed penalties or that 10 men would have been easier to beat, but chances are that we would have fared better.

 

As far as own goals are concerned I would say that in the Accies and Dundee games it was down to downright poor defending. If you argue it was simply bad luck in respect of our opponents then you should argue that O'Donnell's goal yesterday was bad luck on our part.

 

In conclusion I'd say, although I'm biased but have tried to eliminate that, that our bad luck hasn't been repaid recently.

[weeyin]

If that Accies OG hadn't happened so early, there's no telling how that game would have panned out. A bad result there and our 2018 might have been a lot worse.

 

Pens aside, we need to be scoring in open play rather than relying on opinions of officials. That's how you avoid bad luck.

[Yorkyred]

I tend to think decisions pretty much even out over a season. Good teams finish towards the top and poor teams towards the bottom. That old saying you make your own luck is about right. Supporters in general tend to feel hard done by regardling referees but there is always a level of bias towards our own teams which is understandable.

[The African]

I tend to think decisions pretty much even out over a season. Good teams finish towards the top and poor teams towards the bottom. That old saying you make your own luck is about right. Supporters in general tend to feel hard done by regardling referees but there is always a level of bias towards our own teams which is understandable.

Thats quite enough of that sensible bollocks. It doesnt go done well in these parts.

Just because were paranoid, it doesnt mean that the bastards are not out to get us!

[Pettywulliegrew-2]

Again highlights show 2 stonewall penalties.........I thought there was another one in added time at a corner.......as Sportscene Laurel n Hardy said....what was McLean thinking when Kirk Clubfoot hauled Aldred to the ground ?????? He has a clear view about 5 yards away !!!!!

Clubfoot was already on a yellow .....so as usual McLean shat it

Smart decisions by their manager by subbing Brophy/ Clubfoot as both should have had reds

 

Again poor coverage ...... What happened to the first half chance where Cads should have picked a man/ Curtis slash when clean through ???

[Kmcalpin]

I tend to think decisions pretty much even out over a season. Good teams finish towards the top and poor teams towards the bottom. That old saying you make your own luck is about right. Supporters in general tend to feel hard done by regardling referees but there is always a level of bias towards our own teams which is understandable.

I used to think that but not any more. Last season we suffered from a number of good goals being chalked off because the ball was deemed not to have crossed the line and that never balanced itself out. This season we've suffered from a barrowload of poor penalty decisions (most recently 2/3 on Saturday) and that hasn't evened itself out so far.

 

General speaking the big city teams always benefit from refereeing errors at the expense of smaller clubs. Thats the way its always been.

[Ya Bezzer!]

Still haven't won a Saturday match at home since beating Partick on 30th September.

 

I've been at 20 of our 27 league matches and I've not since us win since Hamilton Accies at NDP on 14th October.

[ropy]

You need to have a good hard look at yourself

[Lukemfc1]

It's funny how you can watch the same game as others and have a completely different opinion. To me, there has been a total overeaction to Saturday's result and performance. The thing I don't get is sometimes we fully warrant a slating but on those occasions there is little criticism. All about opinions I suppose..

 

I thought we played more football on Saturday than we did in our last few games combined. On the whole, I actually enjoyed the game. We lacked a cutting edge up front but we certainly didn't deserve the reaction some gave on here and on social media. Our passing, especially in the 2nd half was pretty good. A lot better than it has been recently. It was refreshing to see us to try to play a bit of football. As I said it didn't happen for us up front and we didn't create enough clear cut opportunites but I couldn't fault the effort of the players.

 

Charles Dunne was MOTM again for me and is maturing into a solid player. I thought minus the stray pass for the goal Curtis Main was quality too. Kilmarnock sat deep and defended well, we will play a lot worse than that this season and win.

 

Interesting the slating Elliot Frear has had, I thought he tried to create more than most albeit he fell away for a period of the 2nd half. Frear consistently gets balls in the box into decent positions and still done that a good few times on Saturday.

 

In terms of negatives I thought Tanner looked off the pace. He had some good touches and link up play at times but he looked sluggish especially in the 2nd half. His pace is an issue in games but then again if he had pace he wouldn't be playing for Motherwell. I can remember a couple of examples of him just deciding not to make the effort to run for the ball. Perhaps not the fittest lad in the squad. I would also take him off corners and free kicks, he seems to hit the first man consistently. Cadden also in the 2nd half was pretty poor although I think it might have been due to deliberate tactics. Any time we went forward he seemed to drop deep. Failing to give any sort of wide option on the right hand side.

 

Overall though, I thought we were a lot better than recently and am confident ahead of the game done at Dundee on Saturday. I think sixth place is probably gone now but we can still give it a decent go hopefully

[something else]

I used to think that but not any more. Last season we suffered from a number of good goals being chalked off because the ball was deemed not to have crossed the line and that never balanced itself out. This season we've suffered from a barrowload of poor penalty decisions (most recently 2/3 on Saturday) and that hasn't evened itself out so far.

 

General speaking the big city teams always benefit from refereeing errors at the expense of smaller clubs. Thats the way its always been.

Agreed. The "these things even themselves out over a season" statement is just downright bullshit.

[Happy Dosser]

It's funny how you can watch the same game as others and have a completely different opinion. To me, there has been a total overeaction to Saturday's result and performance. The thing I don't get is sometimes we fully warrant a slating but on those occasions there is little criticism. All about opinions I suppose..

 

I thought we played more football on Saturday than we did in our last few games combined. On the whole, I actually enjoyed the game. We lacked a cutting edge up front but we certainly didn't deserve the reaction some gave on here and on social media. Our passing, especially in the 2nd half was pretty good. A lot better than it has been recently. It was refreshing to see us to try to play a bit of football. As I said it didn't happen for us up front and we didn't create enough clear cut opportunites but I couldn't fault the effort of the players.

 

Charles Dunne was MOTM again for me and is maturing into a solid player. I thought minus the stray pass for the goal Curtis Main was quality too. Kilmarnock sat deep and defended well, we will play a lot worse than that this season and win.

 

Interesting the slating Elliot Frear has had, I thought he tried to create more than most albeit he fell away for a period of the 2nd half. Frear consistently gets balls in the box into decent positions and still done that a good few times on Saturday.

 

In terms of negatives I thought Tanner looked off the pace. He had some good touches and link up play at times but he looked sluggish especially in the 2nd half. His pace is an issue in games but then again if he had pace he wouldn't be playing for Motherwell. I can remember a couple of examples of him just deciding not to make the effort to run for the ball. Perhaps not the fittest lad in the squad. I would also take him off corners and free kicks, he seems to hit the first man consistently. Cadden also in the 2nd half was pretty poor although I think it might have been due to deliberate tactics. Any time we went forward he seemed to drop deep. Failing to give any sort of wide option on the right hand side.

 

Overall though, I thought we were a lot better than recently and am confident ahead of the game done at Dundee on Saturday. I think sixth place is probably gone now but we can still give it a decent go hopefully

You reflect the feelings most of the folk around me had after the game.

 

I'm obviously one of the "happy clappers" complained of by some on here but I actually left the ground delighted we had got the ball down and played some football at last. Some of the stuff we've had to watch recently has been dire but when Tanner plays from the start and we have the out ball to Frear option we are capable of some good stuff. Frear is just back from injury and was often crowded out by the burly tag team he was up against.

 

I was a little disappointed in Killie: I expected more attacking play from them but that may only have happened if we had scored first. They are well organised and physical, and, of course, like most teams, come to FP with the full repertoire of time-wasting tactics and theatrical pratfalls. Tbf, their manager was quite accurate in his post-match comments, unlike Brenda's comments on the Tractor Boys' professionalism (and it's pathetic when Rodgers and Brown complain at other teams "over-celebrating" when they score against Sellick).

 

I no longer watch BBC Shortbread because it's bad for the BP but the clips on YouTube suggest we should have had at least one penalty too. Such luck is not for diddy teams, it seems.

[Al B]

There surely aren't people who think that "things even them out over the season" relates to a one-for-one basis, are there? It doesn't mean if you get a dodgy penalty awarded against you, then you are due one for you. It just relates to your overall luck evening out.

[ONeils40yarder]

First time I've managed to get on here after Saturdays game.

 

I was, unusually for me, really looking forward to the match...due to Killies run of results and the clamour for Clarke to get the Scotland job , added to our reasonably good recent set of results, I was expecting a good game of football to watch. Unfortunately, what we got was one team set up in a defensive manner, and another team that lacked the guile and creativity to work out how to break them down, despite having possession of the ball for almost the entire game.

 

I was really disappointed in Killie, their continual slowing down of the game and their defensive tactics. I'm not sure if that was a 1-off from them, or if that it is their general gameplan, but whatever, its horrendous to watch.

 

From our point of view, I thought the defence was superb, but they only really had to deal with Fat Boyd and Fat Erwin. Dunne and Tait in particular were brilliant, Dunne (other than his distribution) has been superb since Christmas and with Tait, you know exactly what you're getting, no matter where he plays. The other player that I thought played really well, was McHugh, the grief he is getting from the stands is an absolute joke, from folk who clearly haven't a clue.

 

Onto the negatives, we badly missed Alan Campbell in the middle of the park, I'm far from convinced about Andy Rose, I get that his energy levels are good, and I realise that he has marked dangerous players out of certain games, but I'm looking for more from my central midfielder than that. Cadden looks jaded, or unfit. Frear is a player that I like, but when we are playing a team that play as deep as Killie did, he is always going to struggle to impact as pace is his strong point. Tanner was poor, while Ciftci continues to infuriate me, although one thing I'd say in his defence, is that he gets absolutely no protection from referees, with the 1st half penalty incident being a case in point.

 

Despite defeat, I came away from the game, frustrated but not downbeat, we're not far away at all, from being a decent team at this level.

[smiddy]

Still haven't won a Saturday match at home since beating Partick on 30th September.

 

I've been at 20 of our 27 league matches and I've not since us win since Hamilton Accies at NDP on 14th October.

please just stay in the house on Saturday

[grizzlyg]

Rodgers as usual sticking his beak in. He has a point in raising their game in certain matches....(like beating Zenit Brendan and then unable to raise game against Saints!!!!..clown). Sooner he goes back down south the better

[weeyin]

Agreed. The "these things even themselves out over a season" statement is just downright bullshit.

It always has been.

 

Tossing a coin will "even itself out" over the course of a large number of coin flips.

 

Referees making penalty calls, linesmen flagging for offsides, strikers hitting the woodwork etc. are not independent, random events and will never "even themselves out".

[something else]

There surely aren't people who think that "things even them out over the season" relates to a one-for-one basis, are there? It doesn't mean if you get a dodgy penalty awarded against you, then you are due one for you. It just relates to your overall luck evening out.

So do you think that we get the same amount of luck as Celtic over the course of a season then ?

[Al B]

So do you think that we get the same amount of luck as Celtic over the course of a season then ?

That's not what it means either. It means your own positives and negatives will balance themselves out over a long enough period of time. For example, in one game we might have a goal disallowed when it crossed the line, but in another game 4 months later we might score from a corner that should have been a goal kick.

[weeyin]

That's not what it means either. It means your own positives and negatives will balance themselves out over a long enough period of time. For example, in one game we might have a goal disallowed when it crossed the line, but in another game 4 months later we might score from a corner that should have been a goal kick.

 

That's still not true, though, for the reasons I posted earlier.

 

Even if exactly the same events occured in every game for every team, as soon as you have a human making decisions you are adding a bias. Unless that human chooses between pen/no pen, goal/no goal etc. exactly 50/50.

 

So until every game for every team contains exactly the same set of events and the ref consistently makes yes/no decisions exactly 50/50, some teams will benefit more than others.

[stv]

Still haven't won a Saturday match at home since beating Partick on 30th September.

 

I've been at 20 of our 27 league matches and I've not since us win since Hamilton Accies at NDP on 14th October.

 

So your the fukin jinks , i had a hunch it was you.

[something else]

So until every game for every team contains exactly the same set of events and the ref consistently makes yes/no decisions exactly 50/50, some teams will benefit more than others.

And we all know what teams will benefit most

[Al B]

 

That's still not true, though, for the reasons I posted earlier.

 

Even if exactly the same events occured in every game for every team, as soon as you have a human making decisions you are adding a bias. Unless that human chooses between pen/no pen, goal/no goal etc. exactly 50/50.

 

So until every game for every team contains exactly the same set of events and the ref consistently makes yes/no decisions exactly 50/50, some teams will benefit more than others.

 

At no point have I mentioned other teams or other anything. All i'm saying that "things even themselves out over a season" doesn't relate to a "one-for-one" scenario. It just seemed that some people were waiting on us getting a penalty that shouldn't have been, because we were on the sore end of that scenario (for example), when it doesn't work like that. It can be evened out by something that's got nothing to do with a penalty.

 

Much in the same sense that if you lose a £10 note in the street, it doesn't mean that at some point you are due to find a £10 note in the street. If you then win a tenners worth of petrol in a Tesco competition you can't still feel that things haven't evened themselves out just because you didn't find a tenner in the street.

[ropy]

How do you enter the Tesco competition?

[Yorkyred]

Lots of overthinking going on here. The best teams in Motherwell history will have been successful because of the quality of players and nothing to do with refs, luck, good/bad decisions. Yes individual games can be effected by individual decisions but overall its about the quality of the team. Celtic are not top because they are constantly lucky, they just have the best set of players in the country.