Yassin Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Is that what I said? In fact it's the complete opposite of what I said. Can we beat teams that are playing well - seems not. If you have 1 win against a Top 6 team over 27 matches that suggests you aren't Top 6 standard but each to their own. Playing devil's advocate but it seems unfair to ignore the Aberdeen and Rangers league cup games if you're not counting the Hearts and Killie wins either. Anyway, I agree we aren't up to Top Six yet. There's four teams in this league that are clearly better than us and another two that have been marginally more consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said: 6 of our 10 wins this season have been against the bottom 4 clubs. 2 others were against teams that were really struggling at the beginning of the season (Hearts, Kilmarnock). That leaves the away win to Aberdeen and the home win against St. Johnstone. We don't seem to suggest to me that we are a Top 6 standard team. Weird logic. Of the top 6 Hearts have beaten Celtic. They have also beaten Killie - but that apparently doesn't count as it was at the start of the season. Are you proposing a top 5 / bottom 7 this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettywulliegrew-2 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 killie 1 up after 3 mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Is that what I said? In fact it's the complete opposite of what I said. Can we beat teams that are playing well - seems not. If you have 1 win against a Top 6 team over 27 matches that suggests you aren't Top 6 standard but each to their own. What you said was "2 others were against teams that were really struggling at the beginning of the season (Hearts, Kilmarnock)" - with the implication they didn't count as much as beating other top 6 teams because you feel the opposition weren't playing well. I don't think we'll make top 6 this season, but wouldn't care if we got a top 6 with wins exclusively against the bottom 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Did we not have a season under McCall where we swept aside the bottom six each week and struggled against the top six? Much like Aberdeen this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clackscat Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Not quite sure what ya bezzers trying to prove here. It is irrelevant where points come from its the total that counts and we have enough to be challenging for top 6 which not many thought feasible in August with a total rebuild of a team on a negligible budget.Worthy of praise I would say not forensic analysis of stats.Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 54 minutes ago, Donaldo87 said: Did we not have a season under McCall where we swept aside the bottom six each week and struggled against the top six? Much like Aberdeen this year. 2013 -14 we finished 2nd with a record points tally yet took less than half the available points (24 points from a possible 60) vs top half teams but were bolstered big time with 46 from a possible 54 vs bottom. That year included only take 1 point from Dundee United (4th) and included 4-0, 3-1 and 5-1 gubbings by them. That was an odd year. Brutal to watch at times but we simply kept finding ways to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something else Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 Kilmarnock seem to be carrying a hell of a lot of luck at the minute. Lafferty missing a penalty in stoppage time last night. Killie missed one on sat but managed to put in the rebound and of course they were very lucky against us. Hopefully their bubble will burst soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdalli10 Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 I’m not sure if I want to make the top 6 this season other than for the extra money that comes with it. I think the fixtures against the teams in the bottom 6 will be much more enjoyable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Blues Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 Finishing 7th with 3 or 4 (or even 5) wins after the split would not be the worst thing in the world. It would be even better if we had a final trip to Hampden to look forward to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 Can't believe people would actually prefer to finish in the bottom six... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Blues Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 5 hours ago, GazzyB said: Can't believe people would actually prefer to finish in the bottom six... Can't believe you can't believe it. How long have you been on here? Just for the record, I would prefer we finished top six, just saying that there are a few potential silver linings in the bottom six cloud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 Would we be liable to get an extra home game if we finished in the bottom six? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 I can remember people on here weren't too fussed about getting relegated as we'd be going to different grounds. Jeeso. As for the top 6. Nae chance. Unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 13 hours ago, GazzyB said: Can't believe people would actually prefer to finish in the bottom six... If you are comfortable in 5th, 6th or 7th place one of which we will likely end up in , with no chance of the title or Europe ( not counting cup wins) and nowhere near the playoffs or relegation, then does it really matter if you are top or bottom 6? Mid table mediocrity will do me this season, oh and another trip to Hampden for the Scottish cup final as a bonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Spiderpig said: If you are comfortable in 5th, 6th or 7th place one of which we will likely end up in , with no chance of the title or Europe ( not counting cup wins) and nowhere near the playoffs or relegation, then does it really matter if you are top or bottom 6? Mid table mediocrity will do me this season, oh and another trip to Hampden for the Scottish cup final as a bonus Pretty much. I think there's a difference of something like £90k between 6th and 7th but we'd probably end up playing more away games in the Top 6 so there's a trade off there. I had a stupidly long post about this written yesterday that I decided against posting but the gist of it was largely what you've said. By my count this is how our points have been split up based on team and league position: 17/18 Celtic - XL - 1/6 pts Rangers - LL - 0/6 pts Aberdeen - LW - 3/6 pts Hibs - XLL - 1/9 pts Hearts - WLX - 4/9 pts Killie - WLL - 3/9 pts Total - 12 pts from 15 games (45 points) - 26.6% of available points St Johnstone - LW - 3/6 pts Dundee - WXW - 7/9 pts Hamilton Accies - WL - 3/6 pts Thistle - WLX - 4/9 pts Ross County - WLW - 6/9 pts Total - 23 pts from 13 games (39 points) - 58.9% of available points We've taken marginally over a quarter of points available from teams currently in the top 6 but almost 60% of the available points against sides in the bottom 6. Pretty much we are what we are. A mid-table Premiership side who have been consistently better than 5 sides in the league and who on our day and in the right circumstances can compete with the sides above us (as the cup games against Aberdeen and Rangers proved). So while we've picked up more points from teams in the top 6 this season than we did in 16/17 (see below), it still remains the case that we're likely to have a better chance of picking up wins against sides in the bottom half (stands to reason, right?). 16/17 Celtic - LLL 0/9 Aberdeen - LLL 0/9 Rangers - LLX 1/9 St Johnstone - LXL 1/9 Hearts - LLL 0/9 Thistle - XWL 4/9 Total - 6 points from 18 games (54 points) = 11.1% Ross County - XWWL - 7/12 Kilie - WXWW - 10/12 Dundee - XLLL - 1/12 Accies - WXXW - 8/12 ICT - LWWL - 6/12 Total 32 points from 20 games (60 points) = 53.3% Given a section of our support are almost permanently torn faced and don't really need much of an excuse for a moan then a run of fixtures going into the close season where there are more Ls in the form table than Ws doesn't really seem like it'd do us much good. Don't get me wrong, I think we'd be competitive however a quick recap on Thistle's post-split results last season saw them without a win, while the last time we were top 6 we picked up 2 wins from 5 and saw out the season with a 7-0 scudding at Parkhead, live on TV for the nation's entertainment. I'm totally on board with Robinson saying that Top 6 gives a bit of kudos when it comes to recruitment but again, does it matter that much? I'm all for professional pride and aiming to finish as high up the league as possible but assuming we're clear of the relegation conversation and have no chance of a European place then if we've got a choice of having nothing to play for but more likely to lose vs having nothing to play for and being more likely to win then I'd go FTW tbqh. So in short, I'm pretty much ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ about Top 6. If we get it then great but if we hit the split well clear of the relegation conversation but in 7th then it's hardly the end of the world IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 18 hours ago, GazzyB said: Can't believe people would actually prefer to finish in the bottom six... Maybe you ought to read and try to understand their arguments perhaps? If we ended up in the top six, the highest we would finish would be 6th. We'd also be liable to lose more games than if we finish in the bottom six. Its also more likely that we'd end up with one home game less than if we finish in the bottom 6. Financially we might be slightly better off but thats not clear cut. To me safety and a good cup run are more important this season. Its also possible that Robbo might be able to blood more youngsters in the bottom 6. For me there are pros and cons to finishing in the top 6 this season and posters' preferences are not as clear cut as you think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clackscat Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 Thistle finished in top 6 last year, had a torrid time which couldn't have been good for confidence or morale and could be that has contributed to their bad time this season. I know there have been ins and outs since but losing is not an easy habit to break as can be seen when relegated teams often go into a further downward spiral.I think we have more about us than that Thistle side had and doubt we would have 5 defeats, but the prospect of another home game and chance to give some competitive game time to some of our youngsters means that I would not be overly disappointed if we missed out, long as we are in decent form and have won enough points between now and the split to be well clear of 11th.I would take a cup final before top 6 this season for sure.Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: Maybe you ought to read and try to understand their arguments perhaps? If we ended up in the top six, the highest we would finish would be 6th. We'd also be liable to lose more games than if we finish in the bottom six. Its also more likely that we'd end up with one home game less than if we finish in the bottom 6. Financially we might be slightly better off but thats not clear cut. To me safety and a good cup run are more important this season. Its also possible that Robbo might be able to blood more youngsters in the bottom 6. For me there are pros and cons to finishing in the top 6 this season and posters' preferences are not as clear cut as you think. Piffle. If safety is more important to you then you literally cannot be any safer than finishing in the top six, as there is zero chance of us being relegated or finishing in the playoff spot. We don't have to sacrifice a cup run for top six either so that doesn't fly. If Robinson wants to blood youngsters he can do it in the top or bottom six. At a time where every penny counts we should be doing our damndest to finish as high up the league as possible, for obvious reasons. Playing the Accies away and giving Ross MacLean the odd 20 minutes aren't good enough reasons to not care about finishing on the bottom side of the split. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 If we can finish in the top six then obviously the lowest we can finish is sixth and we get the associated prize money. Finish in the bottom six and, even although we could be well clear of relegation, the league's really tight and a slump could see us finish 9th or 10th. That's potentially a big drop in money. Unfortunately I doubt we'll get top six but I also doubt we'll have a slump so can see us finishing 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunnyMFC Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 13 hours ago, GazzyB said: Piffle. If safety is more important to you then you literally cannot be any safer than finishing in the top six, as there is zero chance of us being relegated or finishing in the playoff spot. We don't have to sacrifice a cup run for top six either so that doesn't fly. If Robinson wants to blood youngsters he can do it in the top or bottom six. At a time where every penny counts we should be doing our damndest to finish as high up the league as possible, for obvious reasons. Playing the Accies away and giving Ross MacLean the odd 20 minutes aren't good enough reasons to not care about finishing on the bottom side of the split. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 With Killie winning tonite it somewhat lessens our chances of top 6 but could help in our cause to finish no lower than 7th. just catching up with posts above. I stated somewhere else I would prefer a cup semi final than top 6. Still maintain that. If we can finish 7th then very little between that and 6th and also means we would avoid playing Celtic or Rangers in the league no doubt the week before we play them in cup final - should we get through the semis. Playing Celtic more than once in close proximity is not good for our health as we saw in November. Added to the fact there is no financial benefit in terms of playing old firm at home if we qualified for top 6. If Partick or Dundee are in the mix for play offs or even automatic relegation they would bring more fans to Fir Park than Killie or Hearts finishing in 5th or 6th. In order to qualify for top 6 I think we need to win 3 of next 4 games which means beating either Celtic or Rangers at home. Tough ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 If we do scrape a top 6 it seems that Hearts would be the team we'd overhaul. Like you say, though, it would need some big results against good teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said: With Killie winning tonite it somewhat lessens our chances of top 6 but could help in our cause to finish no lower than 7th. just catching up with posts above. I stated somewhere else I would prefer a cup semi final than top 6. Still maintain that. If we can finish 7th then very little between that and 6th and also means we would avoid playing Celtic or Rangers in the league no doubt the week before we play them in cup final - should we get through the semis. Playing Celtic more than once in close proximity is not good for our health as we saw in November. Added to the fact there is no financial benefit in terms of playing old firm at home if we qualified for top 6. If Partick or Dundee are in the mix for play offs or even automatic relegation they would bring more fans to Fir Park than Killie or Hearts finishing in 5th or 6th. In order to qualify for top 6 I think we need to win 3 of next 4 games which means beating either Celtic or Rangers at home. Tough ask. Fair points all but you've got me with the part in bold. By all accounts a home fixture against either can garner a significant sum. It would be especially so if God forbid one of them had the chance to win the title on our hallowed turf. Perhaps you're making the assumption that we wouldn't get another home game against either but it wouldn't be the first time we've had 3 fixtures at home against one team, or three away for that matter so that may not be the case, however slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 37 minutes ago, weeyin said: If we do scrape a top 6 it seems that Hearts would be the team we'd overhaul. Like you say, though, it would need some big results against good teams. Yeah, I think it might be a step too far....we've a tough run of games even with the game in hand. Hearts have Hibs, Thistle, Dundee, Aberdeen We have Accies, Celtic, Rangers, StJ, Aberdeen (postponed game) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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