The Small-Medium Rebuild 2018'19

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, robsterwood said:

Hastie agreed terms with sevco. On news today. Pretty disapointing and poor contract not sorted while at Alloa or before.

He was at Alloa  to get game time as we were not sure he was going to make the step up to 1st team football, and for me that's not certain yet either, he has had a good last few months and earned himself a big move, lots  of cash etc so it's now up to him to take it, good luck to the boy. 

But that said the blue ugly sisters record at developing and giving youth a chance is not good, so time will tell, but I would not be surprised to have a post in the former players thread in 12 months time asking "remember Jake Hastie whatever happened to him, us he still at Rangers"

He has potential so I hope he goes on and fulfils it 

 

[middleeastdave]

1 hour ago, robsterwood said:

Hastie agreed terms with sevco. On news today. Pretty disapointing and poor contract not sorted while at Alloa or before.

Do we really think he is that good?

Hopefully I will be proved wrong, but I have to say his first 6 games were excellent, but clubs sussed him after that by out by putting two defenders on him which ended his threat, but to assess him on half a dozen games, I even think Sammon was supposed to be a class player when he started at Kilmarnock!!

i still think we have signed the most potential player in David Turnball, so I am happy with that

 

 

[Yorkyred]

34 minutes ago, middleeastdave said:

Do we really think he is that good?

Hopefully I will be proved wrong, but I have to say his first 6 games were excellent, but clubs sussed him after that by out by putting two defenders on him which ended his threat, but to assess him on half a dozen games, I even think Sammon was supposed to be a class player when he started at Kilmarnock!!

i still think we have signed the most potential player in David Turnball, so I am happy with that

 

 

He still has a long way to go and at this point the jury is out for me, time will tell because he has a big task ahead of him now for sure. I’m not going to comment on the whole contract thing again, it’s already been done to death and no one is going to change their opinion on it.

[weeyin]

25 minutes ago, middleeastdave said:

Do we really think he is that good?

 

I think it's a speculative punt for any club at this stage. 

Hastie's attributes seem to be power and speed - two excellent qualities in a player. Like all new players, he was an unknown quantity to the opposition and certainly made a big impact. Teams already started adjusting, though. Hearts after seeing him 45 minutes, and Killie after the abandoned game, both changed the coverage and he became much less effective.

So, for me, he passed the initial part of his introduction into the first team i.e. making an impact with some great performances and bags of confidence. The next part will be to see how he adjusts now teams are working him out. And, of course, the final part will be to see if he improves. For example,  his decision making on when to pass, when to shoot and when to hit the line for a cross is still very much that of a raw teenager. 

Of course I would have loved to have seen him stick around or another season and see how (and if) he developed. I think it would have been an accelerated process for him because he would have been playing alongside guys that he's played with since he was 8 or 9 and know his game inside out.

If I had to choose between keeping Hastie or keeping Turnbull for another year, though, it would be Turnbull every time - he looks like the real deal.

It's all a gamble at this point, though. The leagues are littered with stories of promising youngsters who made a big impact for a few games or even a season, and then just faded away - and conversely, with stories of players who were average youngster who came good later in their career.

 

[sinjy]

26 minutes ago, middleeastdave said:

Do we really think he is that good?

Hopefully I will be proved wrong, but I have to say his first 6 games were excellent, but clubs sussed him after that by out by putting two defenders on him which ended his threat, but to assess him on half a dozen games, I even think Sammon was supposed to be a class player when he started at Kilmarnock!!

i still think we have signed the most potential player in David Turnball, so I am happy with that

 

 

I agree with this.  For  me  Turnbull is a much better player.  I also think  Turnbull  has shown confidence in his ability by signing  for us.  He expects to improve and get his move  in  a year  or so.  Hastie 's star is high just  now  and may  never be as  high again and he is right  to cash  in when he can.  The ideal for me would be that  he bombs at that  horrible  club but takes them for  every  penny he can get then moves on a rich man and has a good career  in England. 

[daver]

1 hour ago, middleeastdave said:

As long as we are compensated handsomely I have no problem with Hastie taking  Sevco deal, according to reports he has been offered £14,000 /week which we certainly could not even come close to match and is a no brainer for Hastie, especially for playing reserve games!!!

£14k a week. I seriously doubt it. £14k a month maybe.

[superward]

Chances he is on 15k a week. If he is then fair play to his agent and Rangers are off their nut!

[wellwell91]

1 hour ago, daver said:

£14k a week. I seriously doubt it. £14k a month maybe.

Yip that is more realistic 

Heard it is £4K a week on a 4 year deal

[Yassin]

2 hours ago, weeyin said:

 

How do we make them sign?

People keep saying we "should have sorted it", but I have seen zero suggestions on how we could have made him put pen to paper. 

Make them acceptable offers with the promise of an increase if they make the step up?

Hastie had been at the club for 10 years, and had no experience above League One and Championship level.

Last month he was saying "It's like a dream come true,I came up through the academy from the age of nine and this has been my dream to break through. I just want to keep doing that. 

"I don't want to go anywhere, I want to stay here, keep my feet on the ground and keep progressing." 

We were clearly in a pretty strong negotiating position, absolutely mental that you seem to think Hastie wouldn't have signed on if we offered him anywhere near reasonable terms at the start of the season.

 

 

[robsterwood]

4 minutes ago, Yassin said:

Make them acceptable offers with the promise of an increase if they make the step up?

Hastie had been at the club for 10 years, and had no experience above League One and Championship level.

Last month he was saying "It's like a dream come true,I came up through the academy from the age of nine and this has been my dream to break through. I just want to keep doing that. 

"I don't want to go anywhere, I want to stay here, keep my feet on the ground and keep progressing." 

We were clearly in a pretty strong negotiating position, absolutely mental that you seem to think Hastie wouldn't have signed on if we offered him anywhere near reasonable terms at the start of the season.

 

 

Agree with this post totally. 

[weeyin]

12 minutes ago, Yassin said:

Make them acceptable offers with the promise of an increase if they make the step up?

What does "Acceptable" mean?

We made him an offer - and even sold Bigi to free up cash in the budget.

He declined.

How do we make it "acceptable"? Offer him more money than a senior player? Match Sevco's offer? 

We made Moult an offer too, but he still moved on. So that wasn't acceptable either.

Sometimes, it's just not possible, and there's not a club on the planet that has been able to hold on to every player they want to keep.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Good luck to Hastie, I think it’s a good move for a young exciting talent that has the natural attributes to develop quickly. Now is not the right time in his development for moving south as he’d be in the reserves so Ibrox is a sensible destination. Rangers attaching options other than Morelos are far from brilliant so he has a good chance of getting in the team on a fairly regular basis. With a bit of luck, he’ll have a good season and make his way into the Scotland squad. 

Talk of £14k a week though? Surely not. Either way, I hope Rangers are dignified enough to pay the statutory compensation without a need for a tribunal. 

[numpty]

16 minutes ago, Yassin said:

Last month he was saying "It's like a dream come true,I came up through the academy from the age of nine and this has been my dream to break through. I just want to keep doing that. 

"I don't want to go anywhere, I want to stay here, keep my feet on the ground and keep progressing." 

Well yes, players do tend to say things like that, if they've any sense.  Then they can't really lose, whatever happens.

[Spiderpig]

21 minutes ago, Yassin said:

 

We were clearly in a pretty strong negotiating position, absolutely mental that you seem to think Hastie wouldn't have signed on if we offered him anywhere near reasonable terms at the start of the season.

 

 

At the start of the season he had shown feck all to warrant a new deal, that's why he was punted out on loan. Now he is cashing in on his last few months in the spotlight, fair play to him. It must have been a tough decision, maybe 1k or 2k a week at Fir Park or 4 or 5k at Ibrox for the next 4 years,, he's off so good luck to the boy.

[Yassin]

6 minutes ago, weeyin said:

What does "Acceptable" mean?

We made him an offer - and even sold Bigi to free up cash in the budget.

He declined.

How do we make it "acceptable"? Offer him more money than a senior player? Match Sevco's offer?

You're arguing against a point nobody is actually making. I'm not saying we should be matching Rangers or anyone else's offers.  I'm saying that if, AT THE START OF THE SEASON,we had offered him wages in line with his status as one of our better prospects, with the promise of first team money once he broke through then I'm pretty confident he'd have signed.

I don't expect us to keep first team players or get into bidding wars with the Old Firm, but I doubt there was much competition for Hastie and Turnbull's signatures when they were unheard of teenagers with no top flight experience.

[robsterwood]

18 minutes ago, weeyin said:

What does "Acceptable" mean?

We made him an offer - and even sold Bigi to free up cash in the budget.

He declined.

How do we make it "acceptable"? Offer him more money than a senior player? Match Sevco's offer? 

We made Moult an offer too, but he still moved on. So that wasn't acceptable either.

Sometimes, it's just not possible, and there's not a club on the planet that has been able to hold on to every player they want to keep.

Least we got sell on clause with Moult that may still bring in money. Sevco will net large fee as sell on if he ends up in premiership. Talent was obvious prior to Alloa. I disagree he showed nothin before Alloa. Pace and power are 2 valuable assets in football. Combine this with his composure and skill and his value soars.

[Big Stall]

16 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

At the start of the season he had shown feck all to warrant a new deal, that's why he was punted out on loan. Now he is cashing in on his last few months in the spotlight, fair play to him. It must have been a tough decision, maybe 1k or 2k a week at Fir Park or 4 or 5k at Ibrox for the next 4 years,, he's off so good luck to the boy.

I have zero understanding of what we pay our players but I can't imagine we were offering him £1k per week just now. Do we really pay youths breaking into the first team £52k per year?

My guess is that the Rangers wages, absolutely dwarfs what we offered him, much more than double or *4.

I could be completely wrong however!

 

*Hopefully Turnbull isn't too gutted/green eyed by his pals fortune

[Yorkyred]

16 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

Least we got sell on clause with Moult that may still bring in money. Sevco will net large fee as sell on if he ends up in premiership. Talent was obvious prior to Alloa. I disagree he showed nothin before Alloa. Pace and power are 2 valuable assets in football. Combine this with his composure and skill and his value soars.

Personally I can’t say i’ve seen enough to suggest he will make the Premier league, it’s full these days of some exceptionally talented players. Turnbull, well that could be a different story.

[wellwell91]

58 minutes ago, Yassin said:

You're arguing against a point nobody is actually making. I'm not saying we should be matching Rangers or anyone else's offers.  I'm saying that if, AT THE START OF THE SEASON,we had offered him wages in line with his status as one of our better prospects, with the promise of first team money once he broke through then I'm pretty confident he'd have signed.

I don't expect us to keep first team players or get into bidding wars with the Old Firm, but I doubt there was much competition for Hastie and Turnbull's signatures when they were unheard of teenagers with no top flight experience.

From what I have heard the coaching staffs priority from signing academy players was as follows

1.      Turnbull 

2.      Scott

3.      Maguire 

4.     Hastie

5.     Livingston 

considering we also signed up Campbell till 2021 all in all I think the club have done pretty well 

[dennyc]

5 hours ago, weeyin said:

What does "Acceptable" mean?

We made him an offer - and even sold Bigi to free up cash in the budget.

He declined.

How do we make it "acceptable"? Offer him more money than a senior player? Match Sevco's offer? 

We made Moult an offer too, but he still moved on. So that wasn't acceptable either.

Sometimes, it's just not possible, and there's not a club on the planet that has been able to hold on to every player they want to keep.

 

 

Yet again you completely ignore what people are saying about the timing of making a contract extension offer. You conveniently turn the discussion to January when releasing players freed up some cash . How about about last summer when money was available but wasted on the likes of Sammon and Taylor-Sinclair.... and others. That is BEFORE he came to the attention of Clubs such as Rangers, and the cash they can offer. We had clearly marked him as one for the future at that time, as stated by Craigen and Robinson way back then.

So I'll repeat the direct question I asked you over a week ago. Third time of asking.

Do you think Hastie might just have signed a new contract last Summer had he been offered one?

Even a one year extension would have protected us at relatively minor cost. Last summer,  when he had already been earmarked as a player with a better chance than most of making it. And at a time when their was a buzz about the place having reached two Cup Finals. That is the point some people are making and which you seem to ignore.

Of course we can't make players sign. We all know that. Even if we had made an offer, he might have stalled.  But the timing of any offer can make a huge difference and the Club may well have got it wrong with Hastie.  I wonder what you would be saying if Turnbull had opted to leave as well..........and McGuire, and Scott,....... also belatedly offered extended contracts. Talent like Turnbull and Hastie possess is a rarity, particularly at a relatively small Club like Motherwell. 

 

For what it's worth I hear the offer is nowhere near the £15k PW quoted but it is way above what we can offer. Like others, I heard the figure was £4k PW on a 4 Year deal . By comparison (from a family member) David Bates left Rangers for Hamburg because Rangers were not prepared to go anywhere near the £7K on offer in Germany, even though Bates was in their first team and wanted to stay at Ibrox. Why on earth would they gamble £15k per week on a youngster with very limited first team experience.

But if he goes, good luck to the boy. And if he is getting £15k PW even better. i wish him well. He might have a familiar face joining him very soon.

 

 

 

[Onthefringes]

12 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

From what I have heard the coaching staffs priority from signing academy players was as follows

1.      Turnbull 

2.      Scott

3.      Maguire 

4.     Hastie

5.     Livingston 

considering we also signed up Campbell till 2021 all in all I think the club have done pretty well 

That list is questionable...

[wellwell91]

49 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Do you think Hastie might just have signed a new contract last Summer had he been offered one?

I have it from a very good source that young Hastie came back for pre season over his target weight and not in the best frame of mind

Hence he was sent out on loan to Alloa where he got good game time and got himself into shape but did not set the heather on fire with his performances 

When he returned he only got into the team because Elliot Frear was injured …… fair do’s to him he has taken it with both hands and hit a bit of a purple patch although in the games against Killie and Hibs the opposition seem to have sussed him out.

He may well go on to be a world beater we’ll just have to wait and see

But as I have said in a previous post we have signed Campbell, Turnbull,Scott and Maguire we made Hastie an offer which it looks like he has refused which is within his rights

forba club with our budget to get 4 of our academy players signed up for next season is not a bad return

Onwards and Upwards life goes on and we have a few more youngsters who will hopefully kick on next season  …… Semple, Brown, Starrs for example

Update that to 5 academy players as just announced that young Livingston has signed extended deal ……… well done to the club 

[wellwell91]

48 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

That list is questionable...

4 out of 5 is not bad

[that hat]

1 hour ago, wellwell91 said:

From what I have heard the coaching staffs priority from signing academy players was as follows

1.      Turnbull 

2.      Scott

3.      Maguire 

4.     Hastie

5.     Livingston 

considering we also signed up Campbell till 2021 all in all I think the club have done pretty well 

Now Adam Livingston has signed an extended deal.

So just the one that got away.

[dennyc]

54 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

I have it from a very good source that young Hastie came back for pre season over his target weight and not in the best frame of mind

Hence he was sent out on loan to Alloa where he got good game time and got himself into shape but did not set the heather on fire with his performances 

 

Think that was in summer 2017 per newspaper interview with Craigen in Feb 2019.

 

 

 

"But former Well Under-20s coach Stephen Craigan reckons seeing just how BAD his fitness was gave the Fir Park winger with the wake-up call he needed.

Craigan said: “When the young Motherwell players came back in the summer of 2017 we did weight and fitness tests on them all.

 

“Jake was bottom of the pile. I think he’d been on holiday with one of his mates during the summer and it showed.

“Compare that with last summer. He started the season flying in training and I asked him what he’d done different.

“He said he hadn’t gone away on holiday, he’d just trained.

“That was nothing to do with me or any of the coaches at Motherwell. I think the penny had dropped with him that he had responsibility for his own life. That he could be a football player or a beach boy.

 

“We sent him on loan to Alloa. Jim Goodwin probably didn’t know it, but we knew he’d done all right in League One on loan at Airdrie and now we wanted to see how he got on in the Championship.

“But while he was there he was able to play for our Under-20s and a couple of the games were at Fir Park, so the coaching staff got to watch him.

“It was quite funny. The staff had a chat around October and we were discussing what we wanted in a wide player.

"The identikit was someone fast, physically strong, who would get you a goal or two.

“I said, ‘We’ve got one like that, but he’s out on loan at Alloa!’.

“But although he was on a season-long loan with Alloa, there was a clause allowing Motherwell to bring him back in January and we knew pretty early on we’d be doing that."

“But the way Jake has developed is down to the coaches he’s had and the way he’s applied himself.”

 

So in the summer of 2018 he was earmarked for return in January 2019, having got his fitness and attitude sorted out as the penny had dropped. Also regular updates from Craigen confirmed Hastie was making progress at Alloa and Jim Goodwin was delighted with him. He was also doing all that was being asked of him when he played for our youth team. We knew last year he was close to breaking into the first team, in fact that was the plan. Hastie's attitude and fitness was a huge part of that intention.