The Small-Medium Rebuild 2018'19

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, maxywell said:

Falkirk and Hibs managed to play some of the best football that any team ever has in the SPL years between around 05 and 10 without paying much higher wages than us.Even MM managed it in his first spell.

 

These were teams managed by John Hughes - right?  Granted Falkirk were relatively successful in that period but they certainly didn't play good football.  That was100% a media inspired myth. I watched them on several occasions in that period and not once did I see them play entertaining football. On at least 2 occasions they reminded me of a team of thugs.  Even Falkirk fans were bemused at this media label. Hibs paid far higher wages than us and have done for years.  

Last season Dundee were widely  lauded as being one of the most cultured/attractive sides in the Premiership but I have to say I saw very little evidence of it.  In the cup game at Dens they looked a brutal (in the traditional sense) and undisciplined lot, but that side of their character, of course, was never publicised.       

[weeyin]

Passing the ball along the ground is not a skill reserved for highly paid footballers.

Our U20s team has been trained to do exactly that.

[Kmac]

10 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Great - that is all we need. A.N other miserable ****** on Steelmen Online 

Very touchy.

I’m assuming that yourself, like the rest of the happy clappers will be delighted if we find ourselves relegated; chance of a wee day out to places we never normally go, perhaps?

Utter Guff

[Yorkyred]

4 hours ago, Kmac said:

Very touchy.

I’m assuming that yourself, like the rest of the happy clappers will be delighted if we find ourselves relegated; chance of a wee day out to places we never normally go, perhaps?

Utter Guff

Think that’s a little unfair. I guess i’m also in the happy clapper camp if we are now labelling individuals.  I just think it’s far too early to state we are doomed this early in the season with a number of new additions still to bed in. There is no doubt this forum can be a pretty depressing read at times, even last season when we actually over performed. I get that to a degree it’s down to the style of football played but I would rather that than what we had under McGee who I think was taking us down and Baraclough who had no idea what he was doing half the time. Let’s give it a few games and see how they settle, if we lose a run of games Robinson will join McGee and Barclough out the door.

[Kmcalpin]

15 hours ago, Kmac said:

So you’d prefer that we’re reactive than proactive? 

Of course not.  However its far too early to make judgements.  Our new acquisitions will take time to settle in and we won't be able to arrive at an informed opinion for a month or two yet.

Mark Gillespie:  not seen much of him so far but seems fine in the little game time he's had.

Aaron Taylor-Sinclair: not match fit after recovering from a long term injury.  Don't think he's played a full match yet?  Remember Charles Dunne last year?

Tom Aldred:  played well last season but hasn't kicked a ball yet.  Can't judge him.

Christian Mbulu: hasn't kicked a ball yet.  Can't judge him. Longer term prospect?

Liam Donnelly:  just getting up to match fitness.  Brought in as cover but a bit mixed so far.  Too early to judge.

Alex Rodriguez Gorrin:  not had much game time yet but looks ok so far.

Danny Johnson:  again not had much game time but looks promising. 

Conor Sammon:  no world beater but done ok so far scoring aginast lower league opposition.  Not the type of player I nor most fans thought he was ie he's more of a footballer.

I'm not saying for a minute that all the newcomers will be a success; some will some won't.  

Robbo has concentrated more on building squad depth certainly but there's no point in taking medicine for a condition you may not have at all or if you do have it,  don't even know what it is.   

 

 

[sinjy]

It's going to be fun on here tonight if we lose today.  I for one will be taking  break from reading the usual doom and gloom we can all expect. 

[David]

Truth is, none of us really know much about these new signings, same as we didn't know much about the new signings last year, or the year before.

Give it a month or two and then we'll know a bit more. 

[Yorkyred]

15 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Of course not.  However its far too early to make judgements.  Our new acquisitions will take time to settle in and we won't be able to arrive at an informed opinion for a month or two yet.

Mark Gillespie:  not seen much of him so far but seems fine in the little game time he's had.

Aaron Taylor-Sinclair: not match fit after recovering from a long term injury.  Don't think he's played a full match yet?  Remember Charles Dunne last year?

Tom Aldred:  played well last season but hasn't kicked a ball yet.  Can't judge him.

Christian Mbulu: hasn't kicked a ball yet.  Can't judge him. Longer term prospect?

Liam Donnelly:  just getting up to match fitness.  Brought in as cover but a bit mixed so far.  Too early to judge.

Alex Rodriguez Gorrin:  not had much game time yet but looks ok so far.

Danny Johnson:  again not had much game time but looks promising. 

Conor Sammon:  no world beater but done ok so far scoring aginast lower league opposition.  Not the type of player I nor most fans thought he was ie he's more of a footballer.

I'm not saying for a minute that all the newcomers will be a success; some will some won't.  

Robbo has concentrated more on building squad depth certainly but there's no point in taking medicine for a condition you may not have at all or if you do have it,  don't even know what it is.   

 

 

Yep, eight players there with two or three others such as a Hartley still not match fit. I personally like the look of Gorrin and Johnson, Aldred we know can do a job and even Sammon who i’m no huge fan of has done ok.

[stv]

38 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Of course not.  However its far too early to make judgements.  Our new acquisitions will take time to settle in and we won't be able to arrive at an informed opinion for a month or two yet.

Mark Gillespie:  not seen much of him so far but seems fine in the little game time he's had.

Aaron Taylor-Sinclair: not match fit after recovering from a long term injury.  Don't think he's played a full match yet?  Remember Charles Dunne last year?

Tom Aldred:  played well last season but hasn't kicked a ball yet.  Can't judge him.

Christian Mbulu: hasn't kicked a ball yet.  Can't judge him. Longer term prospect?

Liam Donnelly:  just getting up to match fitness.  Brought in as cover but a bit mixed so far.  Too early to judge.

Alex Rodriguez Gorrin:  not had much game time yet but looks ok so far.

Danny Johnson:  again not had much game time but looks promising. 

Conor Sammon:  no world beater but done ok so far scoring aginast lower league opposition.  Not the type of player I nor most fans thought he was ie he's more of a footballer.

I'm not saying for a minute that all the newcomers will be a success; some will some won't.  

Robbo has concentrated more on building squad depth certainly but there's no point in taking medicine for a condition you may not have at all or if you do have it,  don't even know what it is.   

 

 

The manager hasnt got a month or two to give an informed opinion before he signs them. Its his job to sign them on his budget and on his judgement ,so some may turn out squad players and ocassionaly a Kiprie will turn up. Hindsight is a great thing loads ofposters seem to have in abundance.

[Welldaft Mk1]

4 hours ago, Kmac said:

Very touchy.

I’m assuming that yourself, like the rest of the happy clappers will be delighted if we find ourselves relegated; chance of a wee day out to places we never normally go, perhaps?

Utter Guff

Maybe my response was a tad strong. Apologies. 

But I will not change my view that there are more moaning Minnie’s than happy clappers on this site.  And it is depressing to read and futile to respond. 

I am a realist. We are a relatively small club with one of the lowest budgets in the league. 

I happen to think the Manager has done a GREAT job since he has come in. 

Is everything perfect - no. But then it is not at Man Utd either. 

I think quite a few posters on this site are quick to judge and not at all realistic in their expectations. 

 

[maxywell]

1 hour ago, David said:

Truth is, none of us really know much about these new signings, same as we didn't know much about the new signings last year, or the year before.

Give it a month or two and then we'll know a bit more. 

That's the problem that teams like us and most of the bottom 6 have every season.We've done well over the last couple of years with picking up unknown players who turned out to be good at this level but that's not going to happen every time.All it takes is one bad run of signings over one summer and any of the bottom 6 could find themselves relegated.

[CoF]

I'm posting as someone who probably sits centre-happyclap on the spectrum of fan excellence:

While I too cant quite see the plan with the new signings, I'm not going to join in the debate as I agree with those that have pointed out we need to see them get a run first. 

I am however viewing this game as the 6th of our campaign and my concern so far is that last year's core group simply haven't been anywhere near where we know they can be. We've had spells during games of individuals being decent, but the reality is we've had on paper, strong starting 11s out each game and struggled to play effective football. Whether it's 'hoofball' or total football, I don't care. As long as its effective. 

A few have cited two cup finals as reasons to stay calm. My worry is that the main attributes that got us there (fight, fitness and guile) are nowhere to be seen just now. 

I've seen us 5 times this season and I simply don't know what the plan is supposed to be. 

 

[Yodo]

13 minutes ago, CoF said:

I'm posting as someone who probably sits centre-happyclap on the spectrum of fan excellence:

I've seen us 5 times this season and I simply don't know what the plan is supposed to be. 

 

I think the manager has the same problem he doesn't know what the plan is either .Im sure he will get it right today 

[Richie]

I guess its a bit early to judge so far.

Bear in mind the LC games are pretty much pre-season friendlies and fitness excercises and our first game of season was V a strong Hibs team (And with a depleted team).

Give it a few games and see how things pan out - Even then one of our imminent games is against a buoyant Rangers.

Of course everyone would prefer to see a bit of flair and attcking football, but the shitfesting so far has resulted in 2 cup finals and avoiding relegation fairly comfortably - This for me, is the priority here.

We *appear* stonger up front (Excl Moult obv) and I Johnson could turn out to be a decent piece of business - Certainly looks a level above what  Bowman was  after a few games.

 

[Andy_P]

I think this has been a good debate also.

I think there are people who made their minds up about Robinson within days of his appointment, perhaps even beforehand and no matter what he presides over it is never going to be enough.  We will never have  a perfect squad balance because it will always too little or many few of this or that position.  Why are we signing English players when there are Scots around?  Why are we signing overpriced Scots when there are bargains elsewhere?  Why are we playing too many or not enough youths because the results aren't what I demand?  The recent attempts to play down the runs to both Cup Finals because we happened to benefit from an own goal or a penalty along the way is typical of of such cringe worthy stuff for example.  Jesus, this is the kind of stuff you expect opposition fans to be hitting you with not your own!  In short he's never going to win with some, whatever he does will be always be wrong and comments from such posters should be viewed in that context.

But the debate about style of play and the results is definitely worthy of the scrutiny it's currently getting.  And the more edgy people get the more focus it's going to receive.

I was delighted with last season and the outcomes. An improvement on league position and two Cup Finals is not to be sniffed at even if the performances were less than silky more often than not. Go on to any forum in the country and you'll see supporters make claims about forgiving results and performances if they see a committed team giving 100% for the cause.  Well we got that, many of us quietly enjoyed the fact we were no longer viewed as pushovers, and some and we had some very good days along the way to boot.

But as with any "new" style or identity that a team adopts in Scotland (I think back to Billy Davies for example and his swashbuckling four attacking front men lining up with the likes of Twaddle-Spencer-Goodman-Townsley) and they get sussed all too quickly. Robinsons' side is no different.  The nature of the small league with repetitive nature of the fixtures means you can't keep a style a secret for long and variations verging on evolution in style, not to mention alternatives, are required before you become overly predictable.  There is also the fact that if the bulk of the squad are hearing the same message over and over again and again it is only natural the group will switch off and the message will lose its impact over time. 

It's still early days in the season but I think there is a danger that it could be happening now. 

I  had hoped that the summer would have seen a gradual shift to something more easy on the eye. It hasn't emerged as yet but I retain a hope, perhaps an increasingly foolhardy hope admittedly, that an evolution in our style of play does remain possible. We do have players that enable us to play a more possession based game.  I don't want to pitch a 19 or 20 year old as the saviour of season but it's difficult to think back to David Turnbull at Firhill and against Hamilton and not think that the way his plays the game would not be of benefit to us currently.  Even if Robinson continued with his (and I still say not unreasonable) desire of putting balls into the box from wide, the presence of Turnbull in distributing the ball around the pitch in his tidy and efficient manner would surely help those in the wide positions get more deliveries of a type that will cause problems rather than the increasingly visionless hit and hope balls into the box.  Add in Tanner who was as good as he had been in his Motherwell career before his injury struck, Bigi on his day and Rodriguez-Gorrin when he gets up to speed and there is some hope of more creative blend.

Quite what position we'll be in when Tanner returns I don't know but whether we persist with the current set up or begin to deviate from Plan A a bit more over the following games I hope things change for the better quickly, or perhaps there genuinely will be a question for those on the board to consider a lot sooner than they might have believed possible.

[Clackscat]

As ever Andy a superb post and agree with every word.

Robbo kept up a far worse team than this one, he gave us great cup runs and safety in the league so a lot of credit in the bank from me.

However it is a results business all that will mean nowt if form and results don't improve.

The manner of our defeat today took me from mildly concerned to very concerned.

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[Al B]

It's just really boring to watch. Even if we win these games and the old "its the result that matters" gets trotted out, well...i can check the result on an app if thats the case. If you want people to actually watch something, then it has to be worth watching. I can find out the result for free at 5pm if thats all that matters.

Wait whats that? You need us to actually come to the game? Well, in that case....

[Kmcalpin]

I'm surprised by the downbeat reaction of some posters to yesterday's debacle.  Yes we have the habitually glass half empty ones who are negative tonight but we also have the sensible/normally positive ones too who are concerned and also, and even more to my to my surprise the ones who normally criticise others for being negative. That worries me. 

[Burn_Broomfield]

29 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I'm surprised by the downbeat reaction of some posters to yesterday's debacle.  Yes we have the habitually glass half empty ones who are negative tonight but we also have the sensible/normally positive ones too who are concerned and also, and even more to my to my surprise the ones who normally criticise others for being negative. That worries me. 

I think that's a natural reaction.  I haven't spoken to any Motherwell fan who's particularly positive about this season.   As much as I try to motivate the wee man going to games, I'm finding it harder to get myself up for the 90 minute shitfest ahead of me.

[johnstone]

If heading gets banned from football then we are fucked.

[Kmcalpin]

34 minutes ago, johnstone said:

If heading gets banned from football then we are fucked.

It might actually have benefitted us yesterday as Accies won more than their fair share of headers.

[Welldaft Mk1]

10 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I'm surprised by the downbeat reaction of some posters to yesterday's debacle.  Yes we have the habitually glass half empty ones who are negative tonight but we also have the sensible/normally positive ones too who are concerned and also, and even more to my to my surprise the ones who normally criticise others for being negative. That worries me. 

I probably fall in the latter category Dave. And despite the fact we did dominate 2/3rds if the game it is a results based business. 

Despite dominating the game we did not look all that threatening and that is the worry for me. We had Moult this time last year to help us amass a decent amount of points. Mains form has so far gone off a cliff and that is a worry. 

I was surprised to see Main and Sammon start yesterday. In my opinion not only do they look similar but so are there playing styles. So far there is little evidence to suggest it is a partnership that is going to flourish. 

It is maybe too early to panic but even I as a more positive thinking fan am quite worried about the season ahead. Worried that we are even this early involved in a relegation battle. I hope I am proved wrong and we can get a couple of positive results in the next two to three games. 

[steelboy]

If we have any ambitions of this season being anything other than dire we have to bring in a decent striker. And if we are to persist with wing backs we need a genuine left wing back.

The squad size is already an embarrasment but if we don't add some quality the club is going to lose all the goodwill built up recently.

 

[Yodo]

4 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I probably fall in the latter category Dave. And despite the fact we did dominate 2/3rds if the game it is a results based business. 

Despite dominating the game we did not look all that threatening and that is the worry for me. We had Moult this time last year to help us amass a decent amount of points. Mains form has so far gone off a cliff and that is a worry. 

I was surprised to see Main and Sammon start yesterday. In my opinion not only do they look similar but so are there playing styles. So far there is little evidence to suggest it is a partnership that is going to flourish. 

It is maybe too early to panic but even I as a more positive thinking fan am quite worried about the season ahead. Worried that we are even this early involved in a relegation battle. I hope I am proved wrong and we can get a couple of positive results in the next two to three games. 

What's the definition of a more positive thinking fan ? Is it thinking we are good when we really are shite .

[Clackscat]

What's the definition of a more positive thinking fan ? Is it thinking we are good when we really are shite .

No its called being objective without an agenda. And btw we were shite yesterday.

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