The Small-Medium Rebuild 2018'19

[steelboy]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

There seems to be this mistaken belief that the reserve team is full of players ready to step into the 1st team at a moment's notice, but if that was the case why are we signing players and spending cash we don't have lots of.

That's a very good question!

You would need to ask Burrows and Robinson what is going with the huge squad and why we are the only team in the league who haven't blooded a youngster this season.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Isn't it maybe he's became available and he has potential to make us a bit of money. We all know how football works these days, English to English transfer ... crazy money, Salamanca de Garcia El Dubai Donadoni sells for 5x more than Shuggie Smith from Lesmahagow despite having the same footballing talent.

While critical of our acquisitions this summer, our combined management team have also served us well so far, maybe best just to let them continue?

*Salamanca's mother was a wee bit of a dirty.

[Yorkyred]

5 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

There seems to be this mistaken belief that the reserve team is full of players ready to step into the 1st team at a moment's notice, but if that was the case why are we signing players and spending cash we don't have lots of.

I think the reality is there is nobody in the reserves ready and /or good enough to make the step up to the 1st team, that may change but not now

Yep, was thinking that myself. Maybe there is no big conspiracy and there is no one at this point actually ready to make the step up. 

[wellwell91]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

Yep, was thinking that myself. Maybe there is no big conspiracy and there is no one at this point actually ready to make the step up. 

Have watched reserves / U20 on a few occasions this season and David Turnbull and Barry Maguire could make the step up and would not look out of place in our current 1st eleven

Only my opinion 

[Wellfan1984]

3 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Have watched reserves / U20 on a few occasions this season and David Turnbull and Barry Maguire could make the step up and would not look out of place in our current 1st eleven

Only my opinion 

1.  Best player those two have played against this season when the result matters? 

 

2. Replace who?

[wellwell91]

17 minutes ago, Wellfan1984 said:

1.  Best player those two have played against this season when the result matters? 

 

2. Replace who?

Not saying they should replace anyone …… but  IMO they could  make the step up

[Yorkyred]

33 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Have watched reserves / U20 on a few occasions this season and David Turnbull and Barry Maguire could make the step up and would not look out of place in our current 1st eleven

Only my opinion 

I guess it’s how good would they be against far better opposition and are they better than who we already have starting every week. I do understand that at some stage they need to be tested but in my view thats probably going to be when we are really struggling for numbers or on a dreadful run with someone way out of form. I personally don’t believe any particular players has had an awful start to the season so at this point I would stick with what we have.

[steelboy]

33 minutes ago, Wellfan1984 said:

2. Replace who?

They couldn't have done less Sammon, Grimshaw, Donnelly or ATS in their appearances. Or Elliot Frear and Andy Rose on Saturday (obviously requiring a change of formation).

Players from the u20s seem to be held to a higher standard than signed players by some people.

 

[Yorkyred]

23 minutes ago, steelboy said:

They couldn't have done less Sammon, Grimshaw, Donnelly or ATS in their appearances. Or Elliot Frear and Andy Rose on Saturday (obviously requiring a change of formation).

Players from the u20s seem to be held to a higher standard than signed players by some people.

 

Personally I just want the best 11 starting every game and if that’s one of them play him. However what I don’t want is a player moved up just because we think they should be because they are playing in the under 20s.  I would however say the management and coaching staff probably know a little bit more about each individuals  abilities over the course of each week than we do.

[weeyin]

A number of our better young players are out on loan. That should be more productive in the long term than 10 minutes in the first team every 2 or 3 weeks.

Personally, I would never have brought Aldred back. I'd have played Maguire and used the Aldred money elsewhere, like a winger. I'm a minorty there though as 90% of this site was begging for him to return when Cedric moved on. We did it with Hall and Heneghan, and from what I have seen, Maguire is no worse than them.

[Yorkyred]

4 minutes ago, weeyin said:

A number of our better young players are out on loan. That should be more productive in the long term than 10 minutes in the first team every 2 or 3 weeks.

Personally, I would never have brought Aldred back. I'd have played Maguire and used the Aldred money elsewhere, like a winger. I'm a minorty there though as 90% of this site was begging for him to return when Cedric moved on. We did it with Hall and Heneghan, and from what I have seen, Maguire is no worse than them.

As a big Aldred fan i’m certainly  one of those that was shouting out for his return even when some were saying we had no chance. I personally feel that was money well spent.

[wellwell91]

Think both Turnbull and Maguire’s contracts are up at the end of the season 

Club then has decisions to make re contract extensions and will they put pen to paper if no sign of 1st team involvement 

[Clackscat]

A number of our better young players are out on loan. That should be more productive in the long term than 10 minutes in the first team every 2 or 3 weeks.
Personally, I would never have brought Aldred back. I'd have played Maguire and used the Aldred money elsewhere, like a winger. I'm a minorty there though as 90% of this site was begging for him to return when Cedric moved on. We did it with Hall and Heneghan, and from what I have seen, Maguire is no worse than them.

Maguire has been playing defensive midfield (and doing it very well). I understand thats where Robbo sees him long term if he continues to develop.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

[weeyin]

3 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

As a big Aldred fan i’m certainly  one of those that was shouting out for his return even when some were saying we had no chance. I personally feel that was money well spent.

It's not that Aldred isn't any good. I just felt that if you have money to spend on one player and you already have Tait, Taylor-Sinclair, Dunne, McHugh, Hartley, Donnelly (Mbulu) and Maguire already signed up and defensively capable - and Maguire already has first team experience from last season - why not use that Aldred cash on a position where we lacked depth of quality (creative mid or winger)?

That might have given us more options with the added bonus of blooding a youngster.

But that is water under the bridge.

[middleeastdave]

12 hours ago, steelboy said:

They couldn't have done less Sammon, Grimshaw, Donnelly or ATS in their appearances. Or Elliot Frear and Andy Rose on Saturday (obviously requiring a change of formation).

Players from the u20s seem to be held to a higher standard than signed players by some people.

 

At least the under 20's are unbeaten and our first team are 1 point above automatic relegation, considering we are supposed to have strengthened the team this season why are we down at the wrong end of the table. I know it's a marathon and not a sprint, but I think some of our first team players maybe need to be dropped as too many simple errors are costing us at the moment.

I am sure Turnball and McGuire are ready for the first team duties and even Krones, Livingstone, Brown are not far away as well, plus are our players out on loan we seem to be in a healthy position as far as younger players coming though.

As a footnote I will predict that Jamie Semple will be playing for Scotland full team within the next 5 years.

 

[steelboy]

15 hours ago, Clackscat said:

Maguire has been playing defensive midfield (and doing it very well). I understand thats where Robbo sees him long term if he continues to develop.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk
 

Has Maguire been moved due to lack of height?

[wellwell91]

7 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Has Maguire been moved due to lack of height?

No he’s bigger than McHugh, Aldred and Hartley 

He reads the game very well and has a good footballing brain into th bargain thats why he’s playing where he is 

[MelvinBragg]

Converting Maguire into a defensive midfielder isn't a bad idea if he has the attributes to play there. But given the number of centre midfielders we have at the club (I count six, maybe seven), is there any realistic chance of him getting a game there for the first team? Why re-sign both Rose and Grimshaw if the coaching staff feel that's Maguire's best position? 

Regards signing the guy from NEC, I don't see the point. Why sign a winger when Robinson's system has no use for them? Like Frear, he'd be picking up a wage with no real place in the team...

[weeyin]

Doesn't Donnelly also play defensive mid for the N.Irish 21s?

I'd love to see us play a winger as a winger, but agree that seems unlikely under Robinson - which is slightly ironic for a gaffer whose favourite stat seems to be crosses into the box. 

[Spiderpig]

7 hours ago, middleeastdave said:

At least the under 20's are unbeaten and our first team are 1 point above automatic relegation, considering we are supposed to have strengthened the team this season why are we down at the wrong end of the table. I know it's a marathon and not a sprint, but I think some of our first team players maybe need to be dropped as too many simple errors are costing us at the moment.

I am sure Turnball and McGuire are ready for the first team duties and even Krones, Livingstone, Brown are not far away as well, plus are our players out on loan we seem to be in a healthy position as far as younger players coming though.

As a footnote I will predict that Jamie Semple will be playing for Scotland full team within the next 5 years.

 

So on what evidence are you suggesting these players are ready for the step up to the 1st team ?  Doing well against similar and in many cases poorer opposition each week is a million miles away from playing against a premiership team every week. If they were good enough they would get their chance, the same way Cadden , Campbell and others before them did.

The reality however is that the vast majority of that reserve side will never make it at the top level, so I am sure if Crags, Hammell or SR thought a player was ready and able they would get the chance, until then we need to bring players in.

[Yabba's Turd]

7 hours ago, middleeastdave said:

... we are supposed to have strengthened the team this season why are we down at the wrong end of the table....

 

Big mistake to look at the table in September, get one round of games in and see where we are, at this stage there's no point analysing anything

[Yorkyred]

9 hours ago, middleeastdave said:

At least the under 20's are unbeaten and our first team are 1 point above automatic relegation, considering we are supposed to have strengthened the team this season why are we down at the wrong end of the table. I know it's a marathon and not a sprint, but I think some of our first team players maybe need to be dropped as too many simple errors are costing us at the moment.

I am sure Turnball and McGuire are ready for the first team duties and even Krones, Livingstone, Brown are not far away as well, plus are our players out on loan we seem to be in a healthy position as far as younger players coming though.

As a footnote I will predict that Jamie Semple will be playing for Scotland full team within the next 5 years.

 

You can’t compare the two, under 20 games against  playing Rangers, Hibs and Hearts first teams is Apples and Oranges. Our first 11 would walk the under 20 league.

[wellwell91]

58 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

You can’t compare the two, under 20 games against  playing Rangers, Hibs and Hearts first teams is Apples and Oranges. Our first 11 would walk the under 20 league.

Don’t think anyone is comparing quality of opposition U20 against that of the 1st team

Couple of years ago I watched a young Alan Campbell in the U20 and thought that he had all the attributes to make an impact in the 1st team which he has done once he was given the chance to do so. Also in that team albeit a year younger was David Turnbull and I have taken an interest in his progression ever since. I think that this boy has the ability and attitude to make it to the highest level in the game way beyond Motherwell 

To my mind he has all the attributes that Campbell brings to the table and a bit more, he can pick a pass and has hit a few screamers from outside the box. This is where I have a problem with Robison … … how do we know if this boy is good enough if he is not given a chance to show what he can do at a higher level. Yes he has been given a couple of outings at the end of last season and to my mind did not look out of place … but we resign Rose, Grimshaw and Gorrin and the boy finds himself way down the pecking order. 

If anyone is going to the Sligo game I suggest you have a good look a this young boy and see what he could bring to the table IMO he is way beyond his years and if only like Campbell he could just be given a chance who knows where it could lead to.

 

[steelboy]

3 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

So on what evidence are you suggesting these players are ready for the step up to the 1st team ? 

In their first team appearances last seasom they did far better than some of the haddies we have seen playing this season.

[weeyin]

Some of them did - but you could equally argue they did well because they were put in at the right time in the right games.

When you put youngsters in at the wrong time in the wrong games you end up with Zak Jules moments.

I'm still in favour of giving them more time, but I think loaning them out so they can start every week is probably better for them. When you are a guy on the fringes, like Turnbull, the lack of competitive game time isn't a good thing.