The Small-Medium Rebuild 2018'19

[weeyin]

52 minutes ago, superward said:

Writing on the wall for Frear you'd have to say with the recent comments on lack of width and pace. 

Which is why I worry he wants to try and find another winger to convert to a wing back. 

I'd much rather we had an option that was an out and out winger. 

[fizoxy]

I like Frear, but if Hastie is coming back it makes sense to move Frear on if something can be organized.

Unless we move to one up front I don’t see us signing a real winger, it will more likely be a forward with pace or a wing back.

It’s going to be an interesting January, we have a lot of players who can sign pre contracts, some of who might still be injured when their contracts are up. There is also the comment Robinson made about is being lucky if we could hold onto dunne, who would be a big loss.




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[weeyin]

I have no doubt if we sign a wide player it will be a wing back.

I just wish we had the option of a wide player whose main job was to take on defenders and hit the bye-line.

[MelvinBragg]

15 hours ago, fizoxy said:

There is also the comment Robinson made about is being lucky if we could hold onto dunne, who would be a big loss.

Haven't seen the quotes about Dunne, when did Robinson say that? Losing Dunne would be a huge blow although given he signed a new contract last season, it would be interesting to see what kind of fee we would get...

[Neilwell86]

I am starting to think that Turnbull won't be signing a contract with us which would be a huge shame, I wonder if leaving it this late to open up contract talks will haunt us. club were well aware how gifted a player he was technically and now he and his agent know he can cut it on the first team stage. I would be really disappointed to see him leave. Also read on pie and bovril that he has turned down 4 offers already.

[StAndrew7]

5 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

I am starting to think that Turnbull won't be signing a contract with us which would be a huge shame, I wonder if leaving it this late to open up contract talks will haunt us. club were well aware how gifted a player he was technically and now he and his agent know he can cut it on the first team stage. I would be really disappointed to see him leave. Also read on pie and bovril that he has turned down 4 offers already.

How do you know we've left it late?

The fact we've made 4 offers to him would suggest to me we've not left it late at all but have been working on it for some time now - I would imagine the negotiations have been going on since the summer.

I agree with your other points and given the information coming from the AGM we've made him an offer that will pay him a similar amount of money to a player who has full international caps and has played a significantly larger number of first team games (I would imagine that might be Bigi?) - I'm not sure what else the club can do here, other than to provide Cadden and Campbell as the examples of how staying here can do you much more good than disappearing to Leeds, Burnley or Celtic...

[Neilwell86]

well we have let his contract run down to the last six months, it only became evident we had started talking to him once he had a few games (and goals) under his belt. we may well have began contract talks earlier in the season but did Robinson not mention he had previously started talks with the youngsters round about December time. You'd like to hope that being a motherwell Fan makes a difference in his decision making, unlike the players you have mentioned who ultimately had no connection to the club in that sense.

[Kmcalpin]

19 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

well we have let his contract run down to the last six months, it only became evident we had started talking to him once he had a few games (and goals) under his belt. we may well have began contract talks earlier in the season but did Robinson not mention he had previously started talks with the youngsters round about December time.

Its a tricky one.  I think he was given a year's deal last summer? We've been down this route before and handed out 2/3 year deals to the likes of Luke Watt and Dom Thomas.  Young players might have all the talent in the world but have they the temperament and attuitude to make it in the first team?  Thats a tough call to make with an untried youngster. 

I'm glad that fans, including those who post online, are taking a more realistic view of young Turnbull's contract negotiations.  I think thats a direct result of more becoming shareholders in our club; attending AGMs; and listening to the club's point of view which wasn't always widely known or publicised in the past.  In years gone by an agent would stir it in one of the redtops and claim that the club was being insulting and disrespectful to players in negotiations and that would be enough to fire up some fans who would simply swallow that and have a real go at the club.  Now they are realising that there's two sides to the negotiations.    

[capt_oats]

10 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Its a tricky one.  I think he was given a year's deal last summer? We've been down this route before and handed out 2/3 year deals to the likes of Luke Watt and Dom Thomas.  Young players might have all the talent in the world but have they the temperament and attuitude to make it in the first team?  Thats a tough call to make with an untried youngster. 

I'm glad that fans, including those who post online, are taking a more realistic view of young Turnbull's contract negotiations.  I think thats a direct result of more becoming shareholders in our club; attending AGMs; and listening to the club's point of view which wasn't always widely known or publicised in the past.  In years gone by an agent would stir it in one of the redtops and claim that the club was being insulting and disrespectful to players in negotiations and that would be enough to fire up some fans who would simply swallow that and have a real go at the club.  Now they are realising that there's two sides to the negotiations.    

Nope. He signed a 2 1/2 year deal  in 2016. https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2016/12/16/midfielder-turnbull-extends-contract/

[Kmcalpin]

14 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Nope. He signed a 2 1/2 year deal  in 2016. https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2016/12/16/midfielder-turnbull-extends-contract/

Ah right.  Thats interesting. I think he first appeared in the first team last season but really only made his mark this year.  FWIW I think he's a smashing footballer and has settled into first team football very well.

[weeyin]

We can't make players sign contracts. If Turnbull has someone whispering in his ear with promises about bigger and better things, there's not much we can do about it apart from point to all the others who moved on too soon. Kipré is about the only youngster in recent times that has been able to secure a first team spot at a higher level. The rest tend to sit in the reserves (or end up in Iran). As always, there's a balance to be found on length of contracts for the youngsters. 

There's also lot to be said for first team football at this point in a player's career.

[Yassin]

4 hours ago, StAndrew7 said:

I'm not sure what else the club can do here, other than to provide Cadden and Campbell as the examples of how staying here can do you much more good than disappearing to Leeds, Burnley or Celtic...

Cadden's last few years would probably suggest the opposite tbf

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, Yassin said:

Cadden's last few years would probably suggest the opposite tbf

He's been getting first team football (and an international debut) that he might not have got sitting on the bench at a league 1 team or whatever. 

So while I agree he needs to kick on, he's done not bad for a 22 year old.

[Onthefringes]

Somebody needs replacing...

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

Somebody needs replacing...

From Stephen Robinson's comments, several players will be replaced, if we have the cash available, but I suspect you know a good bit more than I do. 

[superward]

Unfortunately I think we'll see Turnbull and Cadden (same agency I believe) move on. 

Hard balance contracts with youth as mentioned above re Thomas and Watt. At least if Turnbull does go we get the compo.

[postiejim]

I think Cadden for his own sake needs to move on as he’s in a rut at Motherwell, Turnbull would be better staying but if he goes he goes seen it all before ,can’t think of one player who moved from fir park early in recent times and was a success.  

[Kmcalpin]

Captain Oats (On Pie & Bovril) has posted an article from the Alloa Advertiser  which says that following talks between the 2 clubs, Jake Hastie is being recalled at the end of the month.  No surprise then. 

[Clackscat]

Captain Oats (On Pie & Bovril) has posted an article from the Alloa Advertiser  which says that following talks between the 2 clubs, Jake Hastie is being recalled at the end of the month.  No surprise then. 

Great move, know a few Alloa fans and they rate Hastie highly and are disappointed he isn't staying. A huge improvement on Frear.

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[Spiderpig]

2 minutes ago, Clackscat said:

Great move, know a few Alloa fans and they rate Hastie highly and are disappointed he isn't staying. A huge improvement on Frear.

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He is untried at the top league level, so time will tell how he turns out, but if he is being recalled it looks like he has earned his chance to show SR what he has to offer, it's up to him now, best of luck to him.

[weeyin]

3 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

He is untried at the top league level, so time will tell how he turns out, but if he is being recalled it looks like he has earned his chance to show SR what he has to offer, it's up to him now, best of luck to him.

Exactly this. Guys like McHugh and Moore (and Thomas) did well on loan in the lower leagues, but couldn't make the step up. Signs are good Hastie won't suffer the same fate, but until we give him some game time we won't know for sure.

[Neilwell86]

What Hastie has, that Thomas didn't is the physique, which is hopefully down to his attitude, that coupled with his loan spell in the championship which Thomas never got either. can only hope he returns in the same mould Cadden did after his spell with Albion rovers.

[Busta Nut]

On the subject of Cadden.

 

The club have made no secret that they want to cash in on him.

 

Is he not about the age where he is at the end of the tribunal settlement if he signs another contract?

I could have seen the club punt him in Jan but with him injured I suspect he may move for nothing in the summer barring a small tribunal fee.

Would Cadden want to sign a new deal?
Would the club offer one or take the tribunal fee?

[Neilwell86]

I don't think it would be a particularly small tribunal fee, he is still under the compensation age, I don't know about all of the factors involved but years of development is certainly one, and the fact he is a full international as well adds to that. I vaguely remember someone saying in the region of 600k we would be due, depending on the category of club he goes to. All depends on who wants to pay that right enough.

[Busta Nut]

Being a bit of a "cup half empty" mood today I reckon we'd get about 150K

 

Just based on nothing. It's just the way things work oot.