2018'19 Game 1: Hibernian (A) Sunday 5th August

[Haggischomper]

Aye, leave it to the better fans

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Busta Nut]

There is a few times the 3-5-2  has been mentioned and said it isn't working. We looked a lot better when we switched to that today. A really weird 4-1-2-1-2 formation to start the game, It didn't work at all.

Andy Rose seemed to play LM, I thought he was not too bad but certainly wasn't good.
McHugh played the usual holding role and other than a dodgy tackle I thought was ok.

Grimshaw was rubbish, I don't think he knew where he was playing.

Cadden was utterly brutal, defo didn't know what he was doing. Cadden being brutal seems to go under the radar a fair bit.
The midfield was atrocious and really needs addressed, When Bigi came on Hibs backed off basically but he was actually able to put his foot on the ball and make some passes. Elliott Frear also came on at HT and I thought we might get to seem him at LM however we switched to a back three with wingbacks.

Sammon and Main were both utterly baws but I don't think it a fair judgement on either of them as battering the baw at them from 70 yards isn't ideal.

Johnson looked lively and balls were coming into his feet but tbh he missed three sitters.

[Yorkyred]

It’s just too early to make judgements. The new guys need time to bed in with Donnelly, Johnson and Gorrin all looking as though they could have something to offer with Johnsone in particular another possible Moult. I’m no Sammon fan but even he has shown he has something to offer with the ball at his feet. The back three of last season has been decimated, Hartley is certain not “match” fit yet, he’s just one of those players that needs time after a long lay off and when the new centre half comes in I would expect us to go straight back to a back three with Dunn back in and McHugh back to midfield. While no fan of Sammon I do rate Bowman higher than most on here and think he has also been missed.  It’s clear Robinson has not been given funds to be able to splash out and we need to remember that would apply to any other manager we have in charge and  i’m sure he finds it as frustrating as the rest of us. However as with last season we play in a style he feels maximises results with what he has at his disposal and that’s not going to change . If it’s a disaster 10/15 games in he’s probably going to get sacked and we go again, might see better football under a new manager but it’s still going to be on a budget with lower league players brought in.

[Yodo]

8 hours ago, Haggischomper said:

Aye, leave it to the better fans

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Who said anything about "better fans "  but hey make it up as you go along 

[Onthefringes]

8 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

There is a few times the 3-5-2  has been mentioned and said it isn't working. We looked a lot better when we switched to that today. A really weird 4-1-2-1-2 formation to start the game, It didn't work at all.

Andy Rose seemed to play LM, I thought he was not too bad but certainly wasn't good.
McHugh played the usual holding role and other than a dodgy tackle I thought was ok.

Grimshaw was rubbish, I don't think he knew where he was playing.

Cadden was utterly brutal, defo didn't know what he was doing. Cadden being brutal seems to go under the radar a fair bit.
The midfield was atrocious and really needs addressed, When Bigi came on Hibs backed off basically but he was actually able to put his foot on the ball and make some passes. Elliott Frear also came on at HT and I thought we might get to seem him at LM however we switched to a back three with wingbacks.

Sammon and Main were both utterly baws but I don't think it a fair judgement on either of them as battering the baw at them from 70 yards isn't ideal.

Johnson looked lively and balls were coming into his feet but tbh he missed three sitters.

Looked liked the game was passing him by - narrow diamond midfield set up most likely cause. John McGinn never got a sniff though...

[Kmcalpin]

Just watched the highlights.  Hibs deserved the 3 points but not by a 3-0 margin.  The first goal resulted from a refereeing error.  There's no way that a handball should have been given against Hartley.  He also received an undeserved yellow card which will count against him and us later on in the season.  Danny Johnson's "goal" was chalked off for Conor Sammon being in an offside position and presumably distracting the Hibs keeper, although the latter took no part in the move.  Some refs give them some don't but on this occasion Hibs got the rub of the green.  Hibs 3rd goal was typical of the way we used to lose goals - no midfield protection for the defence.  Although Madden didn't influence the result he did influence the scoreline.    But at the end of the day we were poor and thats why we lost.

Some posters on here remarked that we played narrowly.  So whats new?  We habitually play like that, irrespective of how many midfielders we play, and have done so for years. Hibs' second could have been straight out of the Stevie Hammell era. 

I suspect quite a few players, like Cadden and Main are carrying knocks and therefore not physically fit whilst others like Taylor-Sinclair and Hartley are not match fit.  I suppose you could argue that Main and Cadden should have been rested and there's some truth in that. We should judge the players at the end of next month maybe and cut them some slack.  

[Onthefringes]

Would have agreed at first glance, BBC Alba coverage showed me different. Dress it up how you like, deserved card and I thought Hartley sold the jerseys...

[swami]

8 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

There is a few times the 3-5-2  has been mentioned and said it isn't working. We looked a lot better when we switched to that today. A really weird 4-1-2-1-2 formation to start the game, It didn't work at all.

Andy Rose seemed to play LM, I thought he was not too bad but certainly wasn't good.
McHugh played the usual holding role and other than a dodgy tackle I thought was ok.

Grimshaw was rubbish, I don't think he knew where he was playing.

Cadden was utterly brutal, defo didn't know what he was doing. Cadden being brutal seems to go under the radar a fair bit.
The midfield was atrocious and really needs addressed, When Bigi came on Hibs backed off basically but he was actually able to put his foot on the ball and make some passes. Elliott Frear also came on at HT and I thought we might get to seem him at LM however we switched to a back three with wingbacks.

Sammon and Main were both utterly baws but I don't think it a fair judgement on either of them as battering the baw at them from 70 yards isn't ideal.

Johnson looked lively and balls were coming into his feet but tbh he missed three sitters.

This is pretty spot on. The thing that I found amazing was the space that the Hibs wingers had when the ball was played to them, yet Frear was stood next to his marker every single time the ball was played to him. Johnson got more joy because he was running at the centre backs instead of Sammon or Main trying to fucking out-jump them while not actually looking at the ball. Ambrose might be shite, but he’s massive and doesn’t miss much in the air. Robinson just didn’t address any of the problems right through the game and we only started to look decent because Hibs were 3 up and strolling about saving themselves for their European game on Thursday. 

[Lukemfc1]

To be honest the highlights give a bit of a misleading view of the game. We were rotten yesterday and the chances Robinson mentions in his interview were after the game was already well over. Those Johnson strikes were in the last 5/10 minutes.

At the game I thought the Hartley handball was a joke but looking at the replay I don't know how anyone can pretend that wasn't an obvious handball. Hartley moves his hand to the ball, pretty straight forward. Stupid by Hartley.

I get Robinson isn't going to slate the team on the first game of the season but his assessment of the game is complete nonsense. We were never in that game yesterday, Hibs were absolutely miles ahead of us. I don't expect us to beat Hibs, they are a very good side but we need to compete better than we did yesterday.

In terms of individuals i thought Sammon done well at times when we tried to use him in the correct manner.  He is not a target man. Johnson was encouraging when he came on. Apart from that not many positives.

I thought Donnelly looked ropey and was partly responsible for one of the goals. ATS looks limited defensively and played one of the boys onside for one of the goals. Main looks like a different player this season, not in the drop him camp yet but I think we were too quick to hail him as goal scoring striker. Players rarely turn into prolific strikers overnight. If you look at his record it's not very unlike the rest of his clubs now. I still think we lack real quality upfront to get us enough goals. Again, Cadden was pretty bad but overall our midfield just looked totally disjointed.

I thought it was bizarre Gorrin didn't feature, I would like to get him and Johnson involved from the start on Saturday. I'd get McHugh in at the back instead of Donnelly who didn't look entirely convincing. I'd also rather revert back to Tait at LWB and Cadden at RWB as ATS doesn't look ready to me.

[Goggles & Flippers]

I rocked up at Easter Road at 3pm on Saturday due to jetlag and combining with a visit to the festival shows. Prime fanny ... but glad I am a roaster because that was torture to watch.

Seems this season so far has been misfiring apart for that first half where we scored 5. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

I agree with Robinson in that there was little in the game for the first 30 minutes. After that and up until Johnson came on Hibs were on easy street. 

It has been mentioned on here numerous times how narrow we were.  I am no tactical expert, but to have both Hibs wingers playing in acres of space is only going to lead to one outcome. It is no exaggeration to say that when the ball went out to them they had no Motherwell player within 10 - 15 metres and had all the time in the world to either cross the ball or take on a defender. 

As for the Hartley free kick - like most I thought it was harsh. But seeing it again it is clear he did raise his arm and so it was the correct decision. 

Not happy but there are extenuating circumstances. We have players playing when not match fit and maybe even carrying an injury. We have players injured that would start. Our main midfielder suspended and the player who played most minutes for us last season sold at the very end of last week. Add that to the fact we were playing one of the top 4 away from home and the outcome was not all that surprising. 

It is likely we will always have one or two key players missing through injury but losing Dunne is a big blow at the very start of the season. 

Midfield is a curious one. It would appear that Bigi was not getting any game time as he had asked to go back south. That now seems to have changed or apparently changed. Not sure the background to all this but again he did offer more when he came on. In fairness it would not have been difficult. 

Not a great start and we have quite a few issues to deal with. 

Will wait to see how we perform v Accies and Livvy in the cup before forming a more accurate picture of how we are likely to perform this season. 

 

 

 

 

[Busta Nut]

I feel Bigi wants to move as he's not getting a sniff and when he did there were wee jabs at the "football" players in the squad when it didn't work out.

 

Hartley was a handball all day.

 

Robbo's interview is a lot of shite IMO. There wasn't much of a difference in the first 30. However Hibs were the only one playing and there was absolutely no chance we were ever gonna score in the first half.

[WellHighlander]

Watched the highlights against Hibs and it wasn't good - not by a long shot.

Seems to be case this season that the team hasn't quite hit the heights hoped for, but it has to be remembered it remains early days.

Would have been foolish for Robinson to blast them publicly, especially against a very good Hibs side who, if they keep McGinn, will have designs on finishing second. I'm sure, however, within the confines of the dressing room it was a different story.

Robinson also deserves some praise in not looking to use injuries/suspensions excuse many others would have reached for in a heartbeat. Dunne is such an important player now (worth remembering his shaky start to life at Fir Park), while Campbell's bite and tenacity in midfield is so crucial to how Robinson likes his team to play. Losing Kipre just a few days before would undoubtedly have disrupted preparations as well, but the size of the offer dictated his departure.

Some others don't quite look match fit yet, while Hibs have had the bonus of playing some very competitive European matches, so no surprise to see them looking a little bit sharper.

However, if Robinson isn't contemplating at least 3-4 changes for Hamilton then I'd be worried. Johnson must be in with a shout of replacing either Main/Sammon, especially as he seems to complement a more robust and physical strike partner. Campbell will come back in, but surely Frear is worthy of a place given his ability to get balls into the box?

Creativity from midfield seems to be the main bugbear. Gorrin looks the most likely to provide it, but he is going to need time to adapt. A local derby may just be beyond him at the moment given Hamilton will be hurting from their own mauling by Hearts. They will come to Fir Park looking to make it a battle and we will need players of that ilk to stand up to this in the initial stages.

I respect the opinion of every Well fan, even if we see it differently, but growing uneasy at the number who feel Robinson now isn't up to the job.

This is a manager who took us to our best record of clean sheets in several seasons (helped greatly by a settled back three of Aldred, Kipre and Dunne), not to mention two cup finals and within spitting distance of the top six. After recent campaigns, that is some turnaround.

Robinson made us hard to beat again, so much so that very few teams must have enjoyed playing against us last season. I'm not saying it was a campaign full of free-flowing football, but he got the team playing to its strengths and results were (mostly) achieved when it mattered.

Now, he has the challenge of trying to kick on, especially with expectations being raised. Like others have said, games against the likes of Hibs won't define our season, but the likes of Hamilton will. Robinson and his squad have more than earned the right to be given a shot at redemption, not early judgements on their abilities, especially the manager.

Hopefully the board will give Robinson some cash and bringing Aldred back would seem the most sensible option given he shouldn't require a settling in period. That should help to bolster a backline that has looked less than stable.

[Richie]

2 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Would have agreed at first glance, BBC Alba coverage showed me different. Dress it up how you like, deserved card and I thought Hartley sold the jerseys...

This.

I'm completely failing to see how Hartley sticking his arm out towards the ball for no reason is harsh.

You can't even argue proximity of the shot for this one

 

[Winning by Name]

3 hours ago, Yodo said:

Who said anything about "better fans "  but hey make it up as you go along 

You did

[Clackscat]

Watched the highlights against Hibs and it wasn't good - not by a long shot.
Seems to be case this season that the team hasn't quite hit the heights hoped for, but it has to be remembered it remains early days.
Would have been foolish for Robinson to blast them publicly, especially against a very good Hibs side who, if they keep McGinn, will have designs on finishing second. I'm sure, however, within the confines of the dressing room it was a different story.
Robinson also deserves some praise in not looking to use injuries/suspensions excuse many others would have reached for in a heartbeat. Dunne is such an important player now (worth remembering his shaky start to life at Fir Park), while Campbell's bite and tenacity in midfield is so crucial to how Robinson likes his team to play. Losing Kipre just a few days before would undoubtedly have disrupted preparations as well, but the size of the offer dictated his departure.
Some others don't quite look match fit yet, while Hibs have had the bonus of playing some very competitive European matches, so no surprise to see them looking a little bit sharper.
However, if Robinson isn't contemplating at least 3-4 changes for Hamilton then I'd be worried. Johnson must be in with a shout of replacing either Main/Sammon, especially as he seems to complement a more robust and physical strike partner. Campbell will come back in, but surely Frear is worthy of a place given his ability to get balls into the box?
Creativity from midfield seems to be the main bugbear. Gorrin looks the most likely to provide it, but he is going to need time to adapt. A local derby may just be beyond him at the moment given Hamilton will be hurting from their own mauling by Hearts. They will come to Fir Park looking to make it a battle and we will need players of that ilk to stand up to this in the initial stages.
I respect the opinion of every Well fan, even if we see it differently, but growing uneasy at the number who feel Robinson now isn't up to the job.
This is a manager who took us to our best record of clean sheets in several seasons (helped greatly by a settled back three of Aldred, Kipre and Dunne), not to mention two cup finals and within spitting distance of the top six. After recent campaigns, that is some turnaround.
Robinson made us hard to beat again, so much so that very few teams must have enjoyed playing against us last season. I'm not saying it was a campaign full of free-flowing football, but he got the team playing to its strengths and results were (mostly) achieved when it mattered.
Now, he has the challenge of trying to kick on, especially with expectations being raised. Like others have said, games against the likes of Hibs won't define our season, but the likes of Hamilton will. Robinson and his squad have more than earned the right to be given a shot at redemption, not early judgements on their abilities, especially the manager.
Hopefully the board will give Robinson some cash and bringing Aldred back would seem the most sensible option given he shouldn't require a settling in period. That should help to bolster a backline that has looked less than stable.

Well thought out and reasoned assessment hopefully the 2 line (they are all shite) posters on here will have found the time to read and digest what a good analysis and well articulated comment looks like even if they don't agree with all of it.

The issue for me is that our agricultural style of play is tolerated as long as we get results, but with mainly below par performances so far and the continuation of last seasons shortcomings with little sign of change I understand why the knives are out quicker than would otherwise be the case.

If progress isn't made I fear we will start turning in on ourselves again which in turn makes it harder for players. I hope solid footballing wins against Accies and Livi takes the heat off as I dread the reaction if not.

Time for cool heads.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

[Burn_Broomfield]

The 3 goals we lost are horrendous.  Hartley can have no complaints at all.  Taylor Sinclair looked like he had Rickets trying to chase Shaw after being badly positioned.  It's hard to put it briefly just how shite we were for Boyle's goal.

Johnson looked lively, if a little rusty with his finishing.  Main/Sammon/Bowman are almost the same player so one of them alongside Johnson looks to be the way forward.

In an ideal world I'd be looking for sustained runs in the team from Bigi and Gorrin to try and take control of the ball in the midfield.

It's already a massively important game (I can't use must win already) on Saturday as we have a fairly tough run of league games ahead of us. 

[milo]

2 hours ago, Richie said:

This.

I'm completely failing to see how Hartley sticking his arm out towards the ball for no reason is harsh.

You can't even argue proximity of the shot for this one

 

Have to agree with that.

It’s a shocking decision by the captain.

Do you think this was down to his apparent lack of match fitness?! 

[superward]

The sooner we can get a back 3 playing a run of games (even 2 in a row) together the better. 

Read the same for the 2 up top.

Can't be underestimated how important partnerships and understanding with team mates are and the influence it has on games. 

In another world Carson, Hartley, Kipre and Dunne have played all the league cup games together and know each other very well.  A partnership between Sammon and Bowman is evident and our best midfielder in Campbell wasn't suspended. 

Horrible result and performance but not time to chuck it yet....

[ropy]

Hand to ball for the free kick, Carson then moved to his right just as it was taken, that created the space for the goal.

Great ball in for the second, was looking for offside but obviously not.

The third was created by some tight short passing on the sideline before playing the ball into space for Boyle to run with.

Our goal wasn’t denied for offside, the whistle went before the ball was struck, presumably it was for a harsh handball, we wouldn’t be bottom of the league if it had stood.

[smiddy]

4 hours ago, WellHighlander said:

Watched the highlights against Hibs and it wasn't good - not by a long shot.

Seems to be case this season that the team hasn't quite hit the heights hoped for, but it has to be remembered it remains early days.

Would have been foolish for Robinson to blast them publicly, especially against a very good Hibs side who, if they keep McGinn, will have designs on finishing second. I'm sure, however, within the confines of the dressing room it was a different story.

Robinson also deserves some praise in not looking to use injuries/suspensions excuse many others would have reached for in a heartbeat. Dunne is such an important player now (worth remembering his shaky start to life at Fir Park), while Campbell's bite and tenacity in midfield is so crucial to how Robinson likes his team to play. Losing Kipre just a few days before would undoubtedly have disrupted preparations as well, but the size of the offer dictated his departure.

Some others don't quite look match fit yet, while Hibs have had the bonus of playing some very competitive European matches, so no surprise to see them looking a little bit sharper.

However, if Robinson isn't contemplating at least 3-4 changes for Hamilton then I'd be worried. Johnson must be in with a shout of replacing either Main/Sammon, especially as he seems to complement a more robust and physical strike partner. Campbell will come back in, but surely Frear is worthy of a place given his ability to get balls into the box?

Creativity from midfield seems to be the main bugbear. Gorrin looks the most likely to provide it, but he is going to need time to adapt. A local derby may just be beyond him at the moment given Hamilton will be hurting from their own mauling by Hearts. They will come to Fir Park looking to make it a battle and we will need players of that ilk to stand up to this in the initial stages.

I respect the opinion of every Well fan, even if we see it differently, but growing uneasy at the number who feel Robinson now isn't up to the job.

This is a manager who took us to our best record of clean sheets in several seasons (helped greatly by a settled back three of Aldred, Kipre and Dunne), not to mention two cup finals and within spitting distance of the top six. After recent campaigns, that is some turnaround.

Robinson made us hard to beat again, so much so that very few teams must have enjoyed playing against us last season. I'm not saying it was a campaign full of free-flowing football, but he got the team playing to its strengths and results were (mostly) achieved when it mattered.

Now, he has the challenge of trying to kick on, especially with expectations being raised. Like others have said, games against the likes of Hibs won't define our season, but the likes of Hamilton will. Robinson and his squad have more than earned the right to be given a shot at redemption, not early judgements on their abilities, especially the manager.

Hopefully the board will give Robinson some cash and bringing Aldred back would seem the most sensible option given he shouldn't require a settling in period. That should help to bolster a backline that has looked less than stable.

very well though out post and bang on the money,, except I am not sure aldred and Hartley could play together as both of them play a very similar style , but as I have said before only my opinion.

[Yorkyred]

6 hours ago, WellHighlander said:

Watched the highlights against Hibs and it wasn't good - not by a long shot.

Seems to be case this season that the team hasn't quite hit the heights hoped for, but it has to be remembered it remains early days.

Would have been foolish for Robinson to blast them publicly, especially against a very good Hibs side who, if they keep McGinn, will have designs on finishing second. I'm sure, however, within the confines of the dressing room it was a different story.

Robinson also deserves some praise in not looking to use injuries/suspensions excuse many others would have reached for in a heartbeat. Dunne is such an important player now (worth remembering his shaky start to life at Fir Park), while Campbell's bite and tenacity in midfield is so crucial to how Robinson likes his team to play. Losing Kipre just a few days before would undoubtedly have disrupted preparations as well, but the size of the offer dictated his departure.

Some others don't quite look match fit yet, while Hibs have had the bonus of playing some very competitive European matches, so no surprise to see them looking a little bit sharper.

However, if Robinson isn't contemplating at least 3-4 changes for Hamilton then I'd be worried. Johnson must be in with a shout of replacing either Main/Sammon, especially as he seems to complement a more robust and physical strike partner. Campbell will come back in, but surely Frear is worthy of a place given his ability to get balls into the box?

Creativity from midfield seems to be the main bugbear. Gorrin looks the most likely to provide it, but he is going to need time to adapt. A local derby may just be beyond him at the moment given Hamilton will be hurting from their own mauling by Hearts. They will come to Fir Park looking to make it a battle and we will need players of that ilk to stand up to this in the initial stages.

I respect the opinion of every Well fan, even if we see it differently, but growing uneasy at the number who feel Robinson now isn't up to the job.

This is a manager who took us to our best record of clean sheets in several seasons (helped greatly by a settled back three of Aldred, Kipre and Dunne), not to mention two cup finals and within spitting distance of the top six. After recent campaigns, that is some turnaround.

Robinson made us hard to beat again, so much so that very few teams must have enjoyed playing against us last season. I'm not saying it was a campaign full of free-flowing football, but he got the team playing to its strengths and results were (mostly) achieved when it mattered.

Now, he has the challenge of trying to kick on, especially with expectations being raised. Like others have said, games against the likes of Hibs won't define our season, but the likes of Hamilton will. Robinson and his squad have more than earned the right to be given a shot at redemption, not early judgements on their abilities, especially the manager.

Hopefully the board will give Robinson some cash and bringing Aldred back would seem the most sensible option given he shouldn't require a settling in period. That should help to bolster a backline that has looked less than stable.

Agree with much of that. Robinson’s challenge with regards the fan base is his style of football and I can’t help feeling a good few will just never accept him for that and want to see the back of him. I don’t believe he’s going to change and as such I feel at some stage fan pressure will see the back of him.

[Joeboy]

For me, I'd pin more of our problems on Saturday on Robinson than I would the players. Obviously Robinson didn't stick his hand out towards the ball like Hartley, or play everyone onside like Taylor-Sinclair, but he set us up for the result we ended up getting in my opinion.

So many times on here we've seen people say that wing-back isn't Frear's best position and he would be suited to playing in front of a left-back. So what do we do, we play a left back yet drop him, despite his creativity saving our bacon against Clyde. Had it been a back four and a narrow midfield, I could've lived with it, but Rose spent the first half hugging the left touchline. 

Bigi coming on at half time was a breath of fresh air - and while he will still continue to divide opinion - it wasn't that he done anything earth shattering, he actually just started passing the ball to Motherwell players. I've heard people say "we shouldn't bring him into the team to play side-to-side passes", I don't know about anyone else, but if it's up to me I'd rather see Bigi play a sideways pass than watch any one our midfield battering rams continually lose the ball going forwards.

Robinson has to own the signings he has made to supposedly improve our squad. From what we were led to believe, Rodriguez Gorrin was meant to be an upgrade on Bigi. We'll continue to hear the "he isn't up to speed yet", I refuse to believe that's acceptable for a guy we signed on June 20th. 

Grimshaw, Cadden, Main and Sammon never really offered much between them and whilst I'm not going to credit them, the awful lopsided formation they were sent out to play did hang them out to dry. 

So far this season, we've drawn (and then were effectively beaten) by Stranraer, scraped through a win against Clyde and whilst I came away from the QOS game speaking postively, had they taken their chances against us early on, we could've been lamenting that result too. All of that on top of Sunday's result certainly drop  my optimism for this season. 

Although he should've scored a couple, fair play to Johnson for waking the Hibs keeper up. He has to start next week.

[GazzyB]

Cracking post ^