2018'19 Game 5: Heart of Midlothian (H) Saturday 15th September 2018

[Brazilian]

3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

We missed chances early on too but yes we were well beaten by a bigger and better side. Hearts are too good a side to resort to such gamesmanship. That aside they're the best side I've seen this season.

 

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

We can't turn the clock back but we certainly missed Cedric today for his pace and physicality. Our back 3, McHugh included, had a poor game and were too easily bullied. Against better sides that defence will struggle badly. Individually they may be ok but as a unit they aren't right. 

staggered at that chat Dave, a physically massive and brutal Hearts side had what , one, two three? chances on goal over 90 minutes and you consider our defence had a poor game?

I reckon Aldred, McHugh and Hartley will rarely be challenged to a physical battle like that.

the ever so predictable formation left them to do far too much work, but they were steadfast, McHughs brainfart  moment aside.

I was dissapointed that the captain was blowing out his arse around 70mins, to the extent at times he stopped participating in build up and just wanted rid in posession, I get he's been long term out etc all the more reason for the manager to manage the game & squad etc through subs usage. Aldred too seemed to be distracted towards the end as if running low on energy, but the 3 of them had put in a tremendous shift.

Cadden is so wasted a RWB, Tait wasted on the left ( and had some rare blunders today) but the square pegs in round holes to suit the boss's desire shows little sign of changing.

Campbell was also done in around 70-75 as well , perhaps predictably,  even more frustrating that the Boss, had went all in, on a petty double sub. when in reality, we were still very much in contention.

thereafter was hardly worth staying for, dire viewing, but never really 'out' the game.

Edit: oh and please to whatever God suits every single player, please for the love of that God, SHOOOOOT! on at least half the occasions you get a sniff of the goal

 

 

 

 

[Kmcalpin]

As soon as the two teams took to the field it was obvious we were going to come off worst in any physical or aerial battle and so it proved. The mere sight of Ikpeazu and Dunne brought me out in a cold sweat and that was before kick off.   We started off brightly and played well for the first 20 minutes or so but missed 2 or 3 decent chances which were to prove very costly.  Then came the defensive blunder and Carson's injury, which completely changed the course of the game.  I've yet to watch the action replay but by all accounts, Carson was not a happy man at what took place.  Hearts then gradually took command and their pace and our lack of caused us problems.  In the second half, Hearts created a good few chances but fortunately didn't convert any of them.  We applied plenty of pressure but it no way troubled a great Hearts defence and we found it almost impossible to get into their box let alone trouble their keeper.  We were totally toothless and devoid of ideas.  Pumping high balls at their huge defence was always going to end in tears. 

Our midfield was pedestrian and lacked in ideas, Bigi included.  I was a bit confused by our two subs.  Yes, Cadden wasn't effective but what was Frear going to offer against a deep lying defence?  He proved as unable as Cadden at beating 2 or 3 smothering defenders.  Bowman was never going to beat their physical defence.  Maybe Gorrin or Turnbull would have added something a bit more creative.  

The 2 defences were poles apart in terms of effectiveness.   I like both Aldred and Hartley but think they're too similar and I think they and McHugh were bullied. Hopefully Hartley and Robbo have settled their very public differences amicably afterwards.  Ikpeazu, for all his unsavoury antics, proved too physical for them to handle. At this level one mistake is all it takes to win or lose a game and we made it; Hearts didn't and never looked likely to.

As many posters know, I like our sides to be strong and physical but in today's game we were always going to come off second best.  I refuse to believe that players like Ikpeazu and Dunne are only selected to play against us, despite what the media would have us believe. They'll be selected week in week out - thats the style that Levein likes, sorry Sportsound.  

I agree with you Iain that we have too many players playing out of position.  Hopefully the management team will have learnt a few lessons today to take forward into upcoming games.  Whilst our 12-16 may be stronger than last term, our 1-11 is weaker.           

[weeyin]

I thought we handled the big strikers (Ikpeazu in particular) very well. 

[sinjy]

The first goal in any game is so important. Up until then we were well on top. Main had a good shot and Tait got close too if either had gone in it would have made a much different game. As it happened they got the first goal from a disaster by McHugh who otherwise was excellent. To go a goal down and a team mate seemingly badly injured would have a negative effect. This allowed Hearts to use all their time wasting feigning of injuries and gamesman ship that we know comes from a Levein team. When will a directive come from the SFA to tell refs to stop the watch when a player goes down but does not need treatment and jumps up after a few minutes.  When will the rule come in that bye kicks be taken from the side the ball goes out.  I want to be entertained not watch a player taking minutes to decide he is not going to take the corner or shy and beckon over a teammate  to take it instead. Some day a ref will play 10mins stoppage time in game where there has been no serious injury,  just normal time wasting. 

I also don't get the negative comments about our back three. I thought they dealt well with the big no18 and gave as good as they got. If he had not sold the goal I thought McHugh would have been a candidate for man of the match. 

The worries for me are the lack of creativity and pace in the final third and the complete downturn in Caddens form. Others are saying he is wasted at wing back,  the solution isn't to promote him to centre mid but demote him to the bench.

As forYodo who wants Robinson out, before you consider his opinion just remember in a previous post he suggested a team selection with McGuire at left back and Trumbull at left mid in front of him. The guy is either troll or knows hee haw about football. 

[Yodo]

7 hours ago, sinjy said:

 When will the rule come in that bye kicks be taken from the side the ball goes out.  

As forYodo who wants Robinson out, before you consider his opinion just remember in a previous post he suggested a team selection with McGuire at left back and Trumbull at left mid in front of him. The guy is either troll or knows hee haw about football. 

I think you'll find the law was changed a number of years ago that allows you to take a bye kick from any side, looks like you don't know the laws of the game a bit of a Hee Haw there donkey 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

10 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I hope we go at them in the cup tie. I will probably regret this but today’s game made me think there is actually little between the teams. Yes Hearts have a bigger and better squad but for the most part we more than held our own. 

I will probably regret this too, but after yesterday I actually quite fancy us in the cup tie.

[Yorkyred]

15 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

I will probably regret this too, but after yesterday I actually quite fancy us in the cup tie.

Robinson got it spot on with his post match comments. We more than matched a team with a massive budget next to ours and it’s that final third that again let us down, lots of positives. However the cup tie is again going to be a big ask with their resources.

[Kmcalpin]

12 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

We more than matched a team with a massive budget next to ours and it’s that final third that again let us down, lots of positives.

We more than matched them for the first 20 minutes or so but after that?  The loss of the goal and its manner took the wind out of our sails.  After half time they elected to defend in depth and show us their glass jaw.  In truth they defended as well as I've any side do at Fir Park against us in the past 3/4 years.  In part they looked good perhaps because we were so poor in the final third.  We struggled to get anywhere near their box and any potential cross was smothered by 2/3 or even 4 players.  We then resorted to square passing and lumping aimless balls into their box only to be gobbled up easily by a huge defence.  Despite all our pressure we failed to register much in the way of efforts, on or off target, let alone trouble their goalie, who had nothing to do.  

Yes, maybe we were unfortunate but Hearts were the better side and looked a class above us, never having to move out of 3rd gear.  As in many games these days the loss of the first goal was crucial.   

[Yorkyred]

32 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

We more than matched them for the first 20 minutes or so but after that?  The loss of the goal and its manner took the wind out of our sails.  After half time they elected to defend in depth and show us their glass jaw.  In truth they defended as well as I've any side do at Fir Park against us in the past 3/4 years.  In part they looked good perhaps because we were so poor in the final third.  We struggled to get anywhere near their box and any potential cross was smothered by 2/3 or even 4 players.  We then resorted to square passing and lumping aimless balls into their box only to be gobbled up easily by a huge defence.  Despite all our pressure we failed to register much in the way of efforts, on or off target, let alone trouble their goalie, who had nothing to do.  

Yes, maybe we were unfortunate but Hearts were the better side and looked a class above us, never having to move out of 3rd gear.  As in many games these days the loss of the first goal was crucial.   

We did not match them for the first 20 minutes, we were way better for most of the first half but yes the goal changed things. A class above ? They spent 60 minutes falling to the floor time wasting. People really are talking the Hearts team up to a level they don’t deserve. They have a sound defence but much of their game yesterday was built on a strong physical approach playing to the ref. When we do that one or two state it’s relegation material.

[WhiskyDisregard]

Have to echo the sentiments about Cadden and his form just now. I don't think it's a matter of him 'being wasted at RWB' but it's more just his confidence and his ability to be effective just now. There were two chances in the first half that might be easily forgotten about because he hit them so poorly. One from a half cleared corner he should've struck convincingly on the volley and another from a wide free kick that Bigi pulled back to him. Two obvious chances to get a shot on target and ones, with a packed penalty area, could've caused problems. Both trickled into the arms of the keeper. We didn't get behind their full backs often enough but when we did, Cadden's delivery rarely beat the first man or was far too close to the goalkeeper. For a traditional winger, he really isn't making the most of his chances, especially when you consider Tait's ability to deliver isn't being properly utilised. A bit of time on the bench, Tait RWB and ATS LWB? 

Other than that, thought Campbell looked assured in the centre of the park, especially in the first half, showed some great touches to create a bit of space and retain possession but needs to add another dimension once he squares up to defenders. McHugh largely impressed again at CB despite obvious mistake. Bigi's one touch passing needs to be something the rest of the midfield pick up on, otherwise the passing gets to laborious. Hearts were extremely well-organised and were always going to be tricky to break down, but we did have chances and if we get a slice of luck at the right time, like they did, there's no reason we can't beat them in the cup tie. 

Also, it's just as well Ikpeazu is physical because his finishing was atrocious. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

6 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

We did not match them for the first 20 minutes, we were way better for most of the first half but yes the goal changed things. A class above ? They spent 60 minutes falling to the floor time wasting. People really are talking the Hearts team up to a level they don’t deserve. They have a sound defence but much of their game yesterday was built on a strong physical approach playing to the ref. When we do that one or two state it’s relegation material.

I pretty much agree with this. 

Suprised at Dave comments. I thought we dealt as well as could be as expected with one of the few teams in the league that are every bit as physical as us if not more so.  

We also saw how well Hearts can defend. No coincidence they have conceded fewest goals so far.  We can criticise team for lack of creativity but Hearts had 10 men behind the ball for last 30 minutes and dealt with some very decent crosses with aplomb. 

I am more concerned about Cadden performance. I am a HUGE fan but he is struggling big time for form this season. I doubt he will be dropped but right now I would be tempted to fit Turnbull into midfield for a couple of games at least. 

The cup game will be tougher but again after yesterday if we can carry a little more luck then we are more than capable of getting a positive result. 

[Clackscat]

Usually agree with Dave's comments but actually thought our back 3 defensively did well and in no way were bullied, however in terms of moving the ball forward, all were pretty ineffective, perhaps the sheer physicality of the game left nothing in the tank for more offensive play.

Carson's injury reduced sub options as I am sure Rose or Hartley who were running on empty near the end would have been replaced.

Disappointing day, ironically McHugh our best performer despite his howler. Good mental strength after the double whammy outcome of his mistake.

Plenty of effort but everyone just looked out of sorts, and against a team with better players thats a problem.

That said we for the most part matched a very hard side to play against and they know they were in a game. Whilst I would love a non old firm team to win the league, I have mixed feelings when it comes to this mob.

Better teams than us have been and will be beaten by them this season, disappointing as it was.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

[CoF]

41 minutes ago, Clackscat said:

Usually agree with Dave's comments but actually thought our back 3 defensively did well and in no way were bullied, however in terms of moving the ball forward, all were pretty ineffective, perhaps the sheer physicality of the game left nothing in the tank for more offensive play.

Carson's injury reduced sub options as I am sure Rose or Hartley who were running on empty near the end would have been replaced.

Disappointing day, ironically McHugh our best performer despite his howler. Good mental strength after the double whammy outcome of his mistake.

Plenty of effort but everyone just looked out of sorts, and against a team with better players thats a problem.

That said we for the most part matched a very hard side to play against and they know they were in a game. Whilst I would love a non old firm team to win the league, I have mixed feelings when it comes to this mob.

Better teams than us have been and will be beaten by them this season, disappointing as it was.
 

 

You've summed my own thoughts up well there. 

Opening 20 minutes aside, Hearts were very well organised and difficult to break down. They have conceded 2 in 5 in the league (6 in 10 in all comps) so it's no coincidence we were made to look ineffective in the final third. 

I thought we coped with their front line very well with McHugh in particular giving the big man up front a tough time. As you have said, Hearts knew they were in a game and they'll be thankful for that momentary lapse in concentration as I'm doubtful they'd have left with 3 points without it. 

[wellwell91]

After taking the lead Herts just sat in and we did not have the ability to break the down unab tot get in behind them and get to the bye line while their centre backs dealt easily with balls coming straight down the middle 

With regard Cadden I agree thar RWB is not his position and only time this season he’s looked anything like himself was 2nd half against Rangers when we put Tait to the right and he was pushed forward but doing that would require big formation change and not sure if Robinson would be up for that 

He went to South America in the summer and was on U21 duty during international break playing in both game think he badly needs a rest to recharge his battery’s and hopefully get some of his confidence back

[sinjy]

3 hours ago, Yodo said:

I think you'll find the law was changed a number of years ago that allows you to take a bye kick from any side, looks like you don't know the laws of the game a bit of a Hee Haw there donkey 

You obviously do not understand what I was meaning.  I am well aware of the rule to allow bye kicks from any side. It is a rule that allows keepers to time waste and I was calling for the rule to be changed back to what it was before. Hee haw

[Andy_P]

A very unfulfilling afternoon.

I thought we started as you would have hoped.  Decent efforts on goal early on from Main and Tait and Rose unlucky with the deflected volley but even by the time of the calamatous gift that cost us not only a goal but our goalkeeper things had began to even up a lot more. 

The giveaway was painful in more ways than one.  From the Hunter Stand at least there was almost a collective "don't pass it, don't pass it, don't.......ahh for fuck sake"...

Haven't seen it back but did notice a few minutes after Flow going around various folk in the vicinity of the bench showing something on his phone and making the "planted foot" action. 

Can only hope Carson isn't out for long, albeit Gillespie did impress when he came on.

And that was about it really.  Never threatened again in anger, the nicely worked but weakly finished free-kick shortly before half-time apart.

Around a year in and Levein has once again built Hearts in the style and with the mindset in which he demonstrated as a player.  Masters of the dark arts they may be, aided and abetted by the ever clueless smiling buffoon that is Bobby Madden, but when all's said and done we  just didn't have the quality or ingenuity to break them down. 

You could argue I suppose given the chances at the start, and that their goal game from a mistake ours rather than from anything they created themselves that a point would not have been unwarranted.

But I'm just left with a feeling of disappointment that unlike the Rangers game where we were going at it hammer and tongs towards the end, we went down yesterday more akin to a whimper by comparison.

[Ya Bezzer!]

11 hours ago, weeyin said:

I thought we handled the big strikers (Ikpeazu in particular) very well. 

Ditto.

In fact I'd say Ikpeazu was hardly effective at all.  He was reduced to going to ground every time trying to pick up fouls.  It's not like he was steamrolling through our defence.

If not for a terrible individual error yesterday we would have kept a clean sheet.  The problems were at the other end. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

10 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

But I'm just left with a feeling of disappointment that unlike the Rangers game where we were going at it hammer and tongs towards the end, we went down yesterday more akin to a whimper by comparison.

We took the lead twice against Rangers.

Sometimes I think coaches make such a big deal these days about the first goal being so important that it has a psychological effect on players.   The way our heads went down yesterday after losing that goal you'd have thought it was 3-0.

[Andy_P]

2 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We took the lead twice against Rangers.

Sometimes I think coaches make such a big deal these days about the first goal being so important that it has a psychological effect on players.   The way our heads went down yesterday after losing that goal you'd have thought it was 3-0.

I take your point fully.  Going back as far as Stuart McCall he was another who continually spoke of the importance of the first goal.

I would like to think that given the number of times under Robinson we've had to come back during his reign though that would be slightly less a mental issue. 

Yet funny you should say 3-0 though, now clearly the fact we were 3-0 down removes a huge chunk of pressure on us to realistically get anything and any onus to continue to make a game of it on the leaders, but you compare the chances and way the game was taken to Hibs on the opening day, last 30 minutes compared to the tentative way we were even at just a goal behind yesterday and it was night and day.

Not without effort I hasten to add but the intensity and ability to break Hearts down sadly just wasn't there.

 

[WhiskyDisregard]

13 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Ditto.

In fact I'd say Ikpeazu was hardly effective at all.  He was reduced to going to ground every time trying to pick up fouls.  It's not like he was steamrolling through our defence.

If not for a terrible individual error yesterday we would have kept a clean sheet.  The problems were at the other end. 

Can't help but feel he was still a handful and got inside our back 3's head. It must be mentally exhausting to know that every time a ball is launched forward you have this big lummox all over you who's got a few inches in height on you. 
He's the kind of player you hate to play against but love to see in your side. Gets involved, riles players up and chips in with a few goals. Sort of like Main when he first joined, who's worrying dip in form really needs remedied. 

I was glad to see Bowman back involved, think he is pivotal to how we are choosing to play and would start him and Johnson when they're both fully fit. 

[CoF]

27 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

But I'm just left with a feeling of disappointment that unlike the Rangers game where we were going at it hammer and tongs towards the end, we went down yesterday more akin to a whimper by comparison.

I did notice that we had a couple of goal kicks in the dying minutes and most of our players were slowly wandering into position with backs to our goal. Unlike the Rangers game where we were creating chances,  yesterday we had 70 minutes of our forward play being easily snubbed out. I think we were both physically and mentally nackered at the end. 

[milo]

I’m flitting between thinking we were actually unlucky yesterday to not get a point and thinking we were pretty toothless. Either way, there was very little between the teams overall and we did match Hearts throughout.

McHugh’s passback cost us big style. Literally a hospital ball! Which was harsh on him as he was probably our best player.  He sold the jerseys there though. Although going a goal down is obviously not ideal, especially in the circumstances where it was arguably against the run of play, it’s an occupation hazard in football and I’m surprised it would appear to continually affect us so badly. 

Cadden needs benched, not moved inside. He’s been poor in every game I’ve seen him in and Robinson has obviously recognised that also as he’s subbed him fairly early. Main now has 2 goals in 19 (one of which was a penalty) and if he doesn’t score in the next couple of games then we need to look for a better option up front. Balance in midfield isn’t working and as others have said, despite Robinson strengthening “12 to 19” its interesting we’re relying on 2 of last seasons players, Bowman and Frear, to change it. Neither of which did it yesterday. Taking Johnson off was a massive mistake. If a player isn’t fit after a full pre-season and 8/9 competitive games then I don’t know what’s going on. I thought our passing was ropy throughout aswell as the lack of movement off the ball when we were in possession meaning it resulted in a long hopeful punt which Hearts comfortably dealt with.

That’s 2 home games v Accies and Hearts where we haven’t looked like scoring and/or created next to nothing. The next 2 games are unlikely to be anything other than home wins so real pressure to get something from the Livingston and St Johnstone games. We could be about 13 points behind Livingston by the time we play them and on 1 win in 7. That form can’t be replicated across the season. We signed enough players in the summer so there is scope for changing things. If we don’t then guys like Grimshaw, Gorrin, Taylor-Sinclair, Donnelly etc are literally picking up wages for nothing. I still maintain the recruitment in the summer was all wrong. We had a decent platform to build on with a few tweaks here and there but what we essentially have is the same team as last season minus 2 of our best players. There’s no pace in the team and our build up play is predictable and laborious with the final ball and decision making if we do get into the final third brutal.

Finally Madden. An absolute joke of a ref whom never had a grasp throughout and even seemed to give decisions at the end cos the crowd were shouting at him! That’s the second time I’ve seen him laugh at the East Stand, which is fine as he’s was getting it tight, but would tell the Copeland Road to “sit down?” Or single out a particular supporter, in this case a wee boy by pointing at him? Those wee guys shouldn’t have been throwing paper on the pitch but still. You could be forgiven for thinking Naismith was the ref however!!!

[steelboy]

The wee boy hit Mitchell in the chest from about a yard away. It was only a rolled up bit of paper but you can't really blame Madden for highlighting it.

[Brazilian]

54 minutes ago, steelboy said:

The wee boy hit Mitchell in the chest from about a yard away. It was only a rolled up bit of paper but you can't really blame Madden for highlighting it.

yip, and it was on the back of a few others launching other items at the same player.

Pathetic, and whoever the ref' eventually identified,  was probably only mimicking those that started the trend,

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Trevor Carson on Twitter....

Quote

Thanks for the messages. Bit of a sore one but hopeful there is no serious damage.

https://mobile.twitter.com/trevorcarson24/status/1041048746509910018