Winning by Name Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 30 minutes ago, Yorkyred said: Bowman is not a natural goalscorer, never really has been his whole career. He is however a very useful partner alongside the right striker. In my opinion Moult was at his best with Bowman, it just does not work with Main. If you ask me (and nobody is asking me) Bowman is not even an unnatural goalscorer. Main is out of form just now but Bowman doesn't have any form. Even look at the goal he scored in last season's semi-final against Aberdeen, he almost didn't mean it to be a shot. Just my view. We need a clear out of most of the first choice strikers to achieve anything in the near future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyred Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 9 hours ago, Winning by Name said: If you ask me (and nobody is asking me) Bowman is not even an unnatural goalscorer. Main is out of form just now but Bowman doesn't have any form. Even look at the goal he scored in last season's semi-final against Aberdeen, he almost didn't mean it to be a shot. Just my view. We need a clear out of most of the first choice strikers to achieve anything in the near future. 332 career appearances with 95 goals, not too shabby in fairness even given the level he’s played at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winning by Name Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 14 hours ago, Yorkyred said: 332 career appearances with 95 goals, not too shabby in fairness even given the level he’s played at. How many goals has he scored for Motherwell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinnae-punt-it Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Winning by Name said: How many goals has he scored for Motherwell? 14 goals in 79 games apparently according to transfermarkt.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 Aye, 14 in total. 2 in his first season 10 last season 2 so far this season I like big Bowman for his effort but he's simply not good enough for this level to be a first choice striker in my opinion. I can see the rationale behind the year extension, in a way, given he scored 10, was doing quite well for us beside Moult, and up until the semi final aftermath really. But, I doubt he'll get extended again. As for Main, I am moving to think the Main we got on arrival was the exception rather than the norm. From memory his previous clubs fans were fine with him leaving. Still living I hope once he gets a goal they will start flowing...nut that needs to happen very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 47 minutes ago, dinnae-punt-it said: 14 goals in 79 games apparently according to transfermarkt.co.uk Funny thing is that I checked his stats as well before I read your post. Another way to look at it would be 14 goals in 49 starts. Almost one in three. Not bad for a second striker if your main (no pun intended) striker is banging them in. Sadly isn't the case at the moment. I know that some might say dismissing the number of sub appearances is ridiculous but I always feel that if Motherwell are bringing a striker off the bench the chances are that we're losing and not playing particularly well. To judge any striker on a number of 20-25 minute appearances when the team aren't playing well seems harsh to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 If you are judging solely on starts then it should be based on goals in those starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 1 hour ago, steelboy said: If you are judging solely on starts then it should be based on goals in those starts. If I were a sports journalist, I would no doubt have time to research it and break it down to goals per minute but I'm not and I don't. The point I was making is that 14 goals in 79 appearances doesn't tell the full picture if 20 of those appearances were 20 minutes sub appearances when the team was losing and struggling to create chances. Neither does the stat of 14 in 49 appearances. Who was it that said that statistics are like miniskirts in that they give you a good bit of information but don't show you everything..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinkydink Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said: Who was it that said that statistics are like miniskirts in that they give you a good bit of information but don't show you everything..? Ebbe Skovhdal : “Statistics are just like mini-skirts, they give you good ideas but hide the most important thing.”https://www.scotsman.com/200voices/sporting-legends/13-greatest-scottish-football-quotes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 46 minutes ago, rinkydink said: Ebbe Skovhdal : “Statistics are just like mini-skirts, they give you good ideas but hide the most important thing.”https://www.scotsman.com/200voices/sporting-legends/13-greatest-scottish-football-quotes/ He was just paraphrasing a much older quote from a famous statistician about statistics being like a bikini. "What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 3 hours ago, MelvinBragg said: Funny thing is that I checked his stats as well before I read your post. Another way to look at it would be 14 goals in 49 starts. Almost one in three. Not bad for a second striker if your main (no pun intended) striker is banging them in. Sadly isn't the case at the moment. It takes 30 seconds on Transfermarkt. In the league he has 8 goals in 3474 minutes. 1 goal every 434 minutes or 1 in 5 games basically. The eight goals 1. Consolation header from a corner in the 7-2 at Pittodrie 2. Penalty in the dead rubber defeat at ICT in the final minutes when Robinson had a go at him for celebrating 3. 3. A header from 6 yards against Hearts in a 2-1 win. 4. A good finish running onto a through ball in a 2-0 win over Killie. 5. Shot lashed high into the net from 6 yards in a 3-0 win against Partick. 6. A header against in a defeat against Ross County. 7. A header from a corner in a 3-2 defeat at Firhill. 8. Deflected shot in the recent draw with Livi. 3 with his feet from open play in 2 and half years is a shocking return. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 I was never under any illusions that Bowman was a goal scorer. He was a starter (and deserved his place) because he worked well with Moult, and Moult was scoring the goals. He worked well with Main for a while too, but while Main isn't scoring there was never any chance of Bowman filling that gap. At the very least Main needs to be rested until he finds his form. Arguably, they could both be dropped, but we don't have any other tested combination, so our options are limited there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, steelboy said: It takes 30 seconds on Transfermarkt. In the league he has 8 goals in 3474 minutes. 1 goal every 434 minutes or 1 in 5 games basically. The eight goals 1. Consolation header from a corner in the 7-2 at Pittodrie 2. Penalty in the dead rubber defeat at ICT in the final minutes when Robinson had a go at him for celebrating 3. 3. A header from 6 yards against Hearts in a 2-1 win. 4. A good finish running onto a through ball in a 2-0 win over Killie. 5. Shot lashed high into the net from 6 yards in a 3-0 win against Partick. 6. A header against in a defeat against Ross County. 7. A header from a corner in a 3-2 defeat at Firhill. 8. Deflected shot in the recent draw with Livi. 3 with his feet from open play in 2 and half years is a shocking return. Add in cup games and ignore the first disastrous season with us (playing in that bizarre Moult-McDonald-Bowman front three) and it's one goal every 292 minutes or three and a bit games. But as weeyin points out, he's always going to be the 'second' striker. The work he does running the channels or taking central defenders on has created space for Moult and Main in the past. France just won the World Cup with a striker that doesn't score goals but brings out the best in others. Problem is if the guy he's making the space for is missing the chances. Similarly you could slate wingers or midfielders for lack of assists but what if the striker is missing sitters? That reflects poorly in the statistics. Bowman and Johnson would be my front two. I suspect that Johnson's conversion rate would be better than Main's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyred Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 4 hours ago, MelvinBragg said: Add in cup games and ignore the first disastrous season with us (playing in that bizarre Moult-McDonald-Bowman front three) and it's one goal every 292 minutes or three and a bit games. But as weeyin points out, he's always going to be the 'second' striker. The work he does running the channels or taking central defenders on has created space for Moult and Main in the past. France just won the World Cup with a striker that doesn't score goals but brings out the best in others. Problem is if the guy he's making the space for is missing the chances. Similarly you could slate wingers or midfielders for lack of assists but what if the striker is missing sitters? That reflects poorly in the statistics. Bowman and Johnson would be my front two. I suspect that Johnson's conversion rate would be better than Main's... Pretty much, Moult was never as effective without Bowman in my view. His worth is what he adds to his strike partner. I’m pretty sure even Bowman would admit he is not a natural goalscorer and more a useful sidekick allowing his partner to shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 Turnbull in talks for a new deal according to the paper. Also some quotes about how Turnbull's agent wanted him out on loan this year. But Robinson refused as he thought if he trained with us he would get and take his chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 On 11/5/2018 at 5:24 PM, fizoxy said: Club website has bowman here until 2020. Tanner is too (I thought he was 2019). I also didn’t realize Carson has until 2020, I thought he was out of contract next year and as such we’d try to move him on. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/43761654 Error on the official website I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunnyMFC Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 Would be fantastic if we could tie down Turnbull for a long term contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontmiller Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 Turnbull has got to the priority. Get that contract nailed down. For me - we are poor up front and none of the current crop look ready to break the poor run. I would want to see another striker brought it and if we can get rid of sammon, even better. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 We need a clear out of most of the first choice strikers to achieve anything in the near future.Yep. Main, Bowman, Sammon and Newell aren't really going to do the biz for us and it remains to be seen what happens with Johnson once defenders suss him out like they have with our other strikers. Hopefully he will be able to adapt. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Main was excellent yesterday - he's just not a natural goal scorer. Pairing him with Johnson worked out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 For me, Main is not worth an extension Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmostFrazzled Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 On 11/25/2018 at 3:25 AM, Haggischomper said: Yep. Main, Bowman, Sammon and Newell aren't really going to do the biz for us and it remains to be seen what happens with Johnson once defenders suss him out like they have with our other strikers. Hopefully he will be able to adapt. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Main is useful but more in terms of a second striker who grafts for the team. He needs a finisher up front with him as he's not a goalscorer. Bowman's absolutely terrible, Sammon's getting packed back to Gorgie at the earliest opportunity and I genuinely forgot Newell existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 1 hour ago, AlmostFrazzled said: Main is useful but more in terms of a second striker who grafts for the team. He needs a finisher up front with him as he's not a goalscorer. Bowman's absolutely terrible, Sammon's getting packed back to Gorgie at the earliest opportunity and I genuinely forgot Newell existed. Step up James Scott another one of our young guns who deserves some game time in the first team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clackscat Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 Step up James Scott another one of our young guns who deserves some game time in the first team I don't think he is ready yet, but definitely one for the future, fantastic close ball control and great attitude. Would benefit from a loan spellSent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmostFrazzled Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Yodo said: Step up James Scott another one of our young guns who deserves some game time in the first team I wouldn't say he's ready to be stuck in to start every week, but you'd find it tough to argue that he would have achieved any less than Conor fucking Sammon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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