2018’19 Game 12: Rangers (A) Sunday 11th November 2018

[Welldaft Mk1]

We all agree Craig Thompson is not the reason we ended up shipping 7 goals, but for all that his % of harsh decisions v Motherwell are bordering on the bizaree.  It does not help our cause and possibly his that most of the games he is given to ref is when we are playing the Old Firm. 

It appears to me that if there is ANY debate or dubiety to be had he has always gone against us in terms of penalties and cards. 

This is not even a biased view.  How many of the red cards have been rescinded ?  How many others should have been too ?

Then  you have pundits that have NO allegiance to Motherwell arguing or even agreeing it was not a penalty or a red card.  

What does this guy have to do to stop getting our games. 

If we were any other club we would have released a statement by now.  There is nothing gained in doing so as nothing will change.

Can you imagine the outcry if these decisions were going against either Celtic or Rangers.

I am not saying he has it in for Motherwell FC.  But the repetitive nature of these decisions and discussions when he refs a Motherwell game are now at a level where if I were MFC I would be actively petitioning the powers that be to ask he is not given many if any more Motherwell games.  Wont happen but it should.....

[Winning by Name]

Out of interest, how many Motherwell players have been sent off in the last two seasons and how many of them were sent off by Craig Thomson?

[superward]

Total of 9 sendings off from beginning of 17/18. Thomson has now sent off a Motherwell player 6 times, since the beginning of the 17/18 season. Here's our bad boy list....

17/18

Ross County (LC), Dunne - Red - Finnie (LOST APPEAL)

St Johnstone (A), McHugh - 2 yellows - Thomson (CAN'T APPEAL)

St Johnstone (A), Carson - Red - Thomson (LOST APPEAL)

St Johnstone (A), Dunne - Red - Thomson (RESCINDED)

Celtic (LC), Kipre - Red - Thomson (NO APPEAL)

Accies (H), Hartley - 2 yellows -Dallas (CAN'T APPEAL)

Celtic (H), Kipre, Red - Thomson (DOWNGRADED TO YELLOW)

18/19

Livi (H), McHugh, 2 yellows - Collum (CAN'T APPEAL)

Rangers (A),McHugh, 2 yellows - Thomson (CAN'T APPEAL)

[wellowell]

So we have played 70 league and cup games since start of last season and Thompson reffed 7 and sent off 6 . That leaves 63 games with other refs and 3 sent off . You don’t need to be Einstein to see something far wrong there .

[yosemite sam]

The only plus about this is that if that twat Thompson is refereeing a Motherwell game, we can all make some money with the bookies, betting on a red card and sending off.

[rinkydink]

Could probably fill a thread of Thomson related injustices, but this one is my first memory of his bawbaggery:

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/35988/Well-captain-calls-for-more-head-care

[weeyin]

Did Thomson not ref one of our play-off games against Rangers? If there was ever a time he could have cheated us, that would have been it.

If we really thought we are ALWAYS going to get bad decision against us when he's the ref, we should prepare like Hearts did and practice playing with 10 men.  We can make all the excuses we like, but every single man in claret and amber on Sunday put in performances that were 10 times worse than the ref - and performance is something each player controls.

It wasn't that long ago that we we beat Hearts at Fir Park when we went down to 10 men - and that was also during a shaky spell of form. The players used it as a motivation to step up their game, not to down tools and give up. 

[sbcmfc]

5 hours ago, superward said:

Total of 9 sendings off from beginning of 17/18. Thomson has now sent off a Motherwell player 6 times, since the beginning of the 17/18 season. Here's our bad boy list....

17/18

Ross County (LC), Dunne - Red - Finnie (LOST APPEAL)

St Johnstone (A), McHugh - 2 yellows - Thomson (CAN'T APPEAL)

St Johnstone (A), Carson - Red - Thomson (LOST APPEAL)

St Johnstone (A), Dunne - Red - Thomson (RESCINDED)

Celtic (LC), Kipre - Red - Thomson (NO APPEAL)

Accies (H), Hartley - 2 yellows -Dallas (CAN'T APPEAL)

Celtic (H), Kipre, Red - Thomson (DOWNGRADED TO YELLOW)

18/19

Livi (H), McHugh, 2 yellows - Collum (CAN'T APPEAL)

Rangers (A),McHugh, 2 yellows - Thomson (CAN'T APPEAL)

 

4 hours ago, wellowell said:

So we have played 70 league and cup games since start of last season and Thompson reffed 7 and sent off 6 . That leaves 63 games with other refs and 3 sent off . You don’t need to be Einstein to see something far wrong there .

Those stats are pretty crazy.

Thats an average of almost 1 Red card per game with Thomson, but 1 in 20 without.

Even removing the StJohnstone game which is a bit of an anomaly, he still gives is 10 times more red cards than any other Ref (3 in 6 v 1 in 20)

[wellwell91]

Was Thomson not the ref a few years ago when we were beating Aberdeen 1-0 Aberdeen got a penalty’s which was saved (can’t remember keeper) and twat face Thomson made them take it again due to encroachment, how many times have you seen that happen. 

Needless to say Aberdeen scored with the retake 

[Shotts Well Fan]

45 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Was Thomson not the ref a few years ago when we were beating Aberdeen 1-0 Aberdeen got a penalty’s which was saved (can’t remember keeper) and twat face Thomson made them take it again due to encroachment, how many times have you seen that happen. 

Needless to say Aberdeen scored with the retake 

I think it was Inverness. But he has form against us.

[GrahamH]

2 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Was Thomson not the ref a few years ago when we were beating Aberdeen 1-0 Aberdeen got a penalty’s which was saved (can’t remember keeper) and twat face Thomson made them take it again due to encroachment, how many times have you seen that happen. 

Needless to say Aberdeen scored with the retake 

He sent Stuart McCall to the stand against Aberdeen after awarding them a ridiculous corner that they scored from. No ban for McCall as he won his appeal.

[ropy]

5 hours ago, weeyin said:

Did Thomson not ref one of our play-off games against Rangers? If there was ever a time he could have cheated us, that would have been it.

If we really thought we are ALWAYS going to get bad decision against us when he's the ref, we should prepare like Hearts did and practice playing with 10 men.  We can make all the excuses we like, but every single man in claret and amber on Sunday put in performances that were 10 times worse than the ref - and performance is something each player controls.

It wasn't that long ago that we we beat Hearts at Fir Park when we went down to 10 men - and that was also during a shaky spell of form. The players used it as a motivation to step up their game, not to down tools and give up. 

In the play off he ruled out our sixth goal although he pulled the play back for a penalty.

[Happy Dosser]

3 hours ago, Shotts Well Fan said:

I think it was Inverness. But he has form against us.

And to make matters worse, he gave the penalty when he deemed Stephen McManus to have handled the ball deliberately, despite the fact that he missed the ball from a corner or cross (can't remember which) and the ball was headed back against his hand when he was looking in the opposite direction. That was an appalling decision, compounded by his ridiculous encroachment one. But he's just incompetent, of course.

On matters Robbo generally, at the beginning of October, St Johnstone were pumped 0-6 11V11 by Sellick at home, as clackscat reminded us. I wonder what their fan forum was saying after that? 

If we ditch SR, can anyone suggest a masked Steve Clarke replacement to wave a magic wand?

[Kmac]

I really don’t think having this thread bogged down into criticizing a referee helps (despite his somewhat troublesome track record).

The reality is that we got horsed by a new club  which has yet to win a major trophy and has only competed for a couple of years in the top flight; that’s what is worrying. 

We totally capitulated. My concern is how that projects out. If that’s how we will react under pressure later in the season, when we enevitably find ourselves in a relegation scrap, under pressure, I dare to think of the consequences.

[superward]

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Bad refereeing decisions did not mean we lost 7-1 but they were part of it very early in the game. To let Thomson off without comment would not tell the full story.

...and I get what you are saying about the new club etc. But come off it. It's not quite like we were playing a new club like Ross County or someone scrabbling together a team of free journeyman lower league pros.

Most on here expected us to lose (Not me...I was hopeful sadly). So that loss happened it was the nature of it which was most disappointing. 

[Yorkyred]

32 minutes ago, Kmac said:

I really don’t think having this thread bogged down into criticizing a referee helps (despite his somewhat troublesome track record).

The reality is that we got horsed by a new club  which has yet to win a major trophy and has only competed for a couple of years in the top flight; that’s what is worrying. 

We totally capitulated. My concern is how that projects out. If that’s how we will react under pressure later in the season, when we enevitably find ourselves in a relegation scrap, under pressure, I dare to think of the consequences.

As always we will finish right  where we deserve to finish, nothing to do with refs who will get criticism regardless. Look  on any forum after a game and both sets of supporters state the ref gave the majority of decisions against them. The standard of refereeing in Scotland is shocking, I tend to leave it at that.

[stv]

The state of some scottish supporters opinions isnt much better than the Scottish refereeing.

[sbcmfc]

We were well in the game at 1-1, they were putting us under pressure, but looked extremely fragile at the back anytime we put them under pressure.

The embarrassing collapse in the 2nd half was a shocking reflection on the mentality of the squad.

I’d said a few weeks ago a result like Sunday’s might be the wake up call we need.

Blaming Thomson is a bit of a cop out in that respect.

However those stats posted earlier on the page are mental, admittedly a relatively small sample. Of all the 6 red cards Thomson has given us only 1 wasn’t controversial/debatable and that was McHughs 2 yellows at Mcdiarmid.

Not one was for a wild knee high tackle, headbut, luis Suarez style handball on the goal line....

[Spiderpig]

9 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

We were well in the game at 1-1, they were putting us under pressure, but looked extremely fragile at the back anytime we put them under pressure.

The embarrassing collapse in the 2nd half was a shocking reflection on the mentality of the squad.

I’d said a few weeks ago a result like Sunday’s might be the wake up call we need.

Blaming Thomson is a bit of a cop out in that respect.

However those stats posted earlier on the page are mental, admittedly a relatively small sample. Of all the 6 red cards Thomson has given us only 1 wasn’t controversial/debatable and that was McHughs 2 yellows at Mcdiarmid.

Not one was for a wild knee high tackle, headbut, luis Suarez style handball on the goal line....

How is blaming Thompson a cop out, his actions changed the game and gave Rangers a massive advantage. It was never a pen or a 2nd booking and anybody who watches the highlights and thinks that McHugh deliberately handled the ball, the main and only criteria to be considered is deluded.

No deliberate handball, means no pen and no 2nd booking, so no ordering off. Thompson cost us a chance of getting  something from the game, and not for the 1st time, the man is a cheating incompetent prick.

[sbcmfc]

2 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

How is blaming Thompson a cop out, his actions changed the game and gave Rangers a massive advantage. It was never a pen or a 2nd booking and anybody who watches the highlights and thinks that McHugh deliberately handled the ball, the main and only criteria to be considered is deluded.

No deliberate handball, means no pen and no 2nd booking, so no ordering off. Thompson cost us a chance of getting  something from the game, and not for the 1st time, the man is a cheating incompetent prick.

I think we’re on the same page here.

What I mean is, like Stephen Robinson said, it doesn’t excuse the apparent downing of tools in the 2nd half. Which is perhaps where our focus should be, we can do nothing about Sunday now, but we can’t let that happen again!

Perhaps it wouldn’t have happened had Robinson not been sent to the stand?

Another reason to be aggrieved.

Our 2nd half capitulation let’s Thomson off the hook to an extent(certainly if you’re not looking at it from a ‘well fan point of view), as on paper we got pumped. Given he got sent to the stand for his reaction, I’m guessing privately Robinson does blame Thomson to an extent, but also couldn’t say that post match, a) because it would get him a ban and b) because it would look like deflection for our 2nd half no show.

While I agree Mchugh shouldn’t be a penalty, if the written rules are applied, i’d be screaming for that at the other end and they get given 9/10. The rule needs changed or applied correctly. Actual out and out deliberate handballs are incredibly rare. James McFadden for Scotland v Norway (or Iceland?) at Hampden and Luis Suarez v Ghana at 2014 World Cup are only 2 that pop in to my head.

I’m not sure he had to book Mchugh for the handball? Or even what the rule is on yellow or not?

He also failed to give us a stonewall penalty that would’ve resulted in a red card for Tavernier, would’ve had little impact on this game, but would’ve had implications on goal difference and a suspension successful appeal for Tavernier.

[ScottW1886]

18 hours ago, GrahamH said:

He sent Stuart McCall to the stand against Aberdeen after awarding them a ridiculous corner that they scored from. No ban for McCall as he won his appeal.

The circumstances under which McCall won his appeal are interesting as well. Thomson claimed that McCall swore at him in the tunnel, however the whole incident was caught on camera and also witnessed first hand by the referee's supervisor. The footage and the report from the supervisor both confirmed that McCall hadn't used the language he was accused of so Thomson blatantly lied to cover up a decision he'd taken.

He's a referee that has an astounding list of questionable incidents against the club.

Interesting side note, as last season was his last as a FIFA official he was listed to referee both of the major cup finals. He was replaced by Kevin Clancy for the Scottish Cup Final. Read into that what you will after his red cards in the 2 games against Celtic he did referee.

[ScottW1886]

5 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I think we’re on the same page here.

What I mean is, like Stephen Robinson said, it doesn’t excuse the apparent downing of tools in the 2nd half. Which is perhaps where our focus should be, we can do nothing about Sunday now, but we can’t let that happen again!

Perhaps it wouldn’t have happened had Robinson not been sent to the stand?

Another reason to be aggrieved.

Our 2nd half capitulation let’s Thomson off the hook to an extent(certainly if you’re not looking at it from a ‘well fan point of view), as on paper we got pumped. Given he got sent to the stand for his reaction, I’m guessing privately Robinson does blame Thomson to an extent, but also couldn’t say that post match, a) because it would get him a ban and b) because it would look like deflection for our 2nd half no show.

While I agree Mchugh shouldn’t be a penalty, if the written rules are applied, i’d be screaming for that at the other end and they get given 9/10. The rule needs changed or applied correctly. Actual out and out deliberate handballs are incredibly rare. James McFadden for Scotland v Norway (or Iceland?) at Hampden and Luis Suarez v Ghana at 2014 World Cup are only 2 that pop in to my head.

I’m not sure he had to book Mchugh for the handball? Or even what the rule is on yellow or not?

He also failed to give us a stonewall penalty that would’ve resulted in a red card for Tavernier, would’ve had little impact on this game, but would’ve had implications on goal difference and a suspension successful appeal for Tavernier.

This bit is absolutely key... Assuming we score the penalty, it's 7-2 and not much of a difference on the day. That 1 goal could be as good as 3 points come the end of the season in determining a European place for The Rangers, and a playoff/relegation place for us. That, and Tavernier should be suspended for their next game so their next opponents can also feel aggrieved that when The Rangers get their inevitable penalty, their penalty taker shouldn't be taking it.

[weeyin]

5 hours ago, superward said:

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Bad refereeing decisions did not mean we lost 7-1 but they were part of it very early in the game. To let Thomson off without comment would not tell the full story.

If you read the comments on here you'd think Thomson was the only reason we lost. The players must be delighted they are being absolved of any blame.

We were criminally poor and the fact that we collapsed as a result of a perceived bad refereeing decision points to an even bigger lack of professionalism than just the usual rolling over at Ibrox. 

Fix it and either move on or move out.

[sbcmfc]

17 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Fix it and either move on or move out.

Yes, we can’t fix what’s gone, we need to not let it happen again.

[Welldaft Mk1]

1 hour ago, weeyin said:

If you read the comments on here you'd think Thomson was the only reason we lost. The players must be delighted they are being absolved of any blame.

We were criminally poor and the fact that we collapsed as a result of a perceived bad refereeing decision points to an even bigger lack of professionalism than just the usual rolling over at Ibrox. 

Fix it and either move on or move out.

No you would not. Most posts including mine have stated quite clearly that we did not lose 7-1 just because of Thomson. 

But we are liberty to point out that he has an uncanny record / knack of getting decisions wrong against us. Or sending off more players than any other referee (not even) on average. His stats against us are appalling and point to more than mere incompetency. 

The players however downed tools and defended woefully in the 2nd half. Some players are just not performing to the standards they were last season.