Scottish Cup 4th Round Motherwell v Ross County Sat 19th January (H)

[underboyleheating]

10 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

They are really struggling just now so we have nothing to fear. 

 

9 hours ago, superward said:

We should be winning this fine.

 

9 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

there is a distinct difference in quality between the Premiership and championship. 

 

2 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

 We were an absolute shambles there, I can usually find a couple of positives but not from that game.

Nothing to fear?  Difference in quality?
Aye, Ross County had nothing to fear. And from where I was sitting there was a difference in quality between the two sides as Ross County wanted it more.

[Yorkyred]

9 minutes ago, underboyleheating said:

 

 

 

Nothing to fear?  Difference in quality?
Aye, Ross County had nothing to fear. And from where I was sitting there was a difference in quality between the two sides as Ross County wanted it more.

I wondered how long it would take you. Truth is we did not lose because of the quality of Ross County, and really they were nothing to fear, unless you saw something in them that was anything special ? That loss was 100% down to us, our colts put up a better showing against them.

[real dosser]

Absolute dross today. No creativity, no heart, no battling for the ball. It was a winner takes all cup game and we did f**k all to win it.

my recollection of McCormack's first 45 minutes in a Well strip was that he touched the ball once and that was to hit a free kick ( I missed the first 5 minutes so perhaps he kicked the game off).

He was so unfit it was unbelievable.  The other new lad looks like he has some tricks  and was far better on the left when he swapped with Frear before he was swapped back to the right.

Gorrin I thought showed more in his 15-20 minutes than the rest of them did in the whole game.

 

[MelvinBragg]

There's a reason that no one plays 442 anymore. Invariably, you get outmanned in there. The only side to do it successfully recently were Leicester and they had Kante who could do the work of three men and were set up as a counter attacking team. 

Call it a 4231 all you like, in a 4231 your number 10 contributes to your midfield. Whether due to lack of fitness or whether it was the gameplan, he contributed nothing to the midfield. McHugh and Turnbull were hung out to dry by Robinson. If I were Turnbull, I'd be on the first available taxi out of FirPark.  McHugh being subbed for another centre midfielder seemed to be saying Carl McHugh was the problem, not the shape. 

Tactically out of his depth, manager seems to have brought in a winger with no end product. And brings on a striker that he says let the club and his teammates down less than a month ago. And takes off the one striker that has looked like scoring goals all season. Playing a left centre back at left back. Signing an injured player for the second January in a row. 

Today felt as shambolic as the 5-1 defeat to Dundee a couple of years ago and we all know what happened after that...

[underboyleheating]

19 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I wondered how long it would take you. Truth is we did not lose because of the quality of Ross County, and really they were nothing to fear, unless you saw something in them that was anything special ? That loss was 100% down to us, our colts put up a better showing against them.

It showed that we are no better than a championship side. Do you still think there is a gulf in quality between a team like us and Ross County? Personally I can’t see it.

[Yorkyred]

7 minutes ago, underboyleheating said:

It showed that we are no better than a championship side. Do you still think there is a gulf in quality between a team like us and Ross County? Personally I can’t see it.

There is a level up between the Championship and the Premiership, what percentage of teams from  the championship win the play offs against a premiership team ? Look at Motherwell against Rangers over two legs when it came to the crunch. As I say we lost today not because of how good Ross County were.

[underboyleheating]

I believe the team we put out today would not win the championship.  Do you think we would?

[santheman]

We're becoming Patrick Thistle mk2

[Ya Bezzer!]

39 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

There's a reason that no one plays 442 anymore. Invariably, you get outmanned in there. The only side to do it successfully recently were Leicester and they had Kante who could do the work of three men and were set up as a counter attacking team. 

Kilmarnock play 4-4-2 most of the time.  Burke - Power - Dicker - Jones.

They are a similar sized club to us and they are challenging for the title.

[gaz7]

15 minutes ago, santheman said:

We're becoming Patrick Thistle mk2

fuk off.

[Spiderpig]

20 minutes ago, santheman said:

We're becoming Patrick Thistle mk2

Behave yourself and stop talking pish

[gaz7]

11 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Kilmarnock play 4-4-2 most of the time.  Burke - Power - Dicker - Jones.

They are a similar sized club to us and they are challenging for the title.

yes and power and dicker imo are 2 mobile midfielders who cover ground and are always covering and are aggressive . mchugh isnt mobile enough and turnbull isnt competitive enough yet. campbell and grimshaw might have been better today and turnbull in McCormack position. just before half time i said to my son if main had played like McCormack in 1st half hed be off at ht.  someone said earlier we changed a winning team after accies and it was true but lots were against us today like winter break. new signings needing to play.1st goal against us.ref decisions against arriyibi. playing against a team top of championship. but most of all i feel our fans are terrible when the chips are down you can see the fear in our players when they are getting moans.

[Shotts Well Fan]

8 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

ybut most of all i feel our fans are terrible when the chips are down you can see the fear in our players when they are getting moans.

So its all our fault. FFS I have heard it all now.

Also, how is having new signings "against us" ? 

[Kmcalpin]

Just now, Ya Bezzer! said:

Kilmarnock play 4-4-2 most of the time.  Burke - Power - Dicker - Jones.

They are a similar sized club to us and they are challenging for the title.

Yes but they have the players to do that successfully whereas we don't. Too many of our players are being played out of position or are not suited to the roles they're being given. For example we don't have a striker on our books capable of playing on his own up front nor a central midfielder to support that advanced role.

[Andy_P]

We place so much emphasis on the Cups as a support and from the business side of things with the finances that can be generated that I do wonder if that defeat will resonate throughout the board of directors much much more than us "plodding along" league position, however much a chore it is to watch.

I'm not fond of the saying "we were beaten before we set foot on the park".  You are never beaten before you step on to the park but a team selection can make a whole lot harder for you than it needs to be, and that was how it seemed to me.  Like some I too got the impression that Robinson thought we would have enough about us to use this game to help people find fitness and tinker with his formation whilst still making the next round.

You look through that team and half of them trying to bed themselves back into the side to get match fit far less messing about with formations and deploying players in roles they've rarely played.   We were told Tait didn't train with the rest of the squad in Tenerife but goes straight in. Hartley has had one game back after how long out and even then he's hardly kicked a ball in a year. It took Dunne a few months to get up to speed last season and there's no evidence to suggest it's going to be any different this time.  McCormack was supposed to be a doubt until February but somehow is deemed fit start but can only last a half watching the ball fly over him.  Turnbull withdrawn from the area in which he's been most effective and having played with two strikers we suddenly decide to go with one.  It all just felt like too much at the one time and we paid the price for it. 

Whether Robinson  goes on to pay the ultimate price for it I don't know, but much of his credit in the bank will have gone after that.

An awful afternoon.

 

 

 

 

[gaz7]

5 minutes ago, Shotts Well Fan said:

So its all our fault. FFS I have heard it all now.

Also, how is having new signings "against us" ? 

no of course not but if you cannot see how negativity affects players then you are blind.

new signings affected us because robinson felt pressured to play them when he admitted they werent fit. We were also on a bit of a high after winning derby in last game so players that then sat out would not have been happy.

is that enough for you to understand?

[Ya Bezzer!]

13 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

yes and power and dicker imo are 2 mobile midfielders who cover ground and are always covering and are aggressive . mchugh isnt mobile enough and turnbull isnt competitive enough yet. campbell and grimshaw might have been better today and turnbull in McCormack position. just before half time i said to my son if main had played like McCormack in 1st half hed be off at ht.  someone said earlier we changed a winning team after accies and it was true but lots were against us today like winter break. new signings needing to play.1st goal against us.ref decisions against arriyibi. playing against a team top of championship. but most of all i feel our fans are terrible when the chips are down you can see the fear in our players when they are getting moans.

I've been saying this for a long while but if you don't have players with decent fundamentals it doesn't matter what formation you play.  A year and a half a go I was saying our midfield wasn't good enough and it still isn't.  What formation can we play?  

In a supposedly professional football squad any of our players who can take a touch or pass the ball are exceptional.  It's embarrassing.

When you take this lack of basics across the squad and then add on top of it that the coaching of the team is non existent and that Robinson hasn't improved a single player then you get performances like today splattered all over the season.

 

[gaz7]

10 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

We place so much emphasis on the Cups as a support and from the business side of things with the finances that can be generated that I do wonder if that defeat will resonate throughout the board of directors much much more than us "plodding along" league position, however much a chore it is to watch.

I'm not fond of the saying "we were beaten before we set foot on the park".  You are never beaten before you step on to the park but a team selection can make a whole lot harder for you than it needs to be, and that was how it seemed to me.  Like some I too got the impression that Robinson thought we would have enough about us to use this game to help people find fitness and tinker with his formation whilst still making the next round.

You look through that team and half of them trying to bed themselves back into the side to get match fit far less messing about with formations and deploying players in roles they've rarely played.   We were told Tait didn't train with the rest of the squad in Tenerife but goes straight in. Hartley has had one game back after how long out and even then he's hardly kicked a ball in a year. It took Dunne a few months to get up to speed last season and there's no evidence to suggest it's going to be any different this time.  McCormack was supposed to be a doubt until February but somehow is deemed fit start but can only last a half watching the ball fly over him.  Turnbull withdrawn from the area in which he's been most effective and having played with two strikers we suddenly decide to go with one.  It all just felt like too much at the one time and we paid the price for it. 

Whether Robinson  goes on to pay the ultimate price for it I don't know, but much of his credit in the bank will have gone after that.

An awful afternoon.

 

 

 

 

great post and i totally agree. the romantic in me when i heard team thought bloody hell we are going for it 424 but that changed quickly watching game.

[mfc]

Who put robinson under pressure to play our new signings?,he made a cunt of it today with his team selection,there's nobody to blame for that other than him.

[Andy_P]

2 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

no of course not but if you cannot see how negativity affects players then you are blind.

new signings affected us because robinson felt pressured to play them when he admitted they werent fit. We were also on a bit of a high after winning derby in last game so players that then sat out would not have been happy.

is that enough for you to understand?

I don't know that Robinson was under pressure to play his new signings.  He had already suggested it would be February before McCormack may be fit enough to play. Ariyibi's involvement admittedly made more sense given we've been lacking an attacking right sided midfielder since Cadden got injured but he could easily have selected much the same team that beat Hamilton, gradually introduced the newbies and most would have considered it fair and maybe even sensible.The only pressure put on Robinson to play him was from Robinson himself.

As for the negativity whilst it is undoubtedly the case a negative atmosphere does little to inspire players to give more believe me this group of players have got off extremely lightly with some moaning and booing at the end of the game in comparison to many a Motherwell side over the years. 

 

[gaz7]

4 minutes ago, mfc said:

Who put robinson under pressure to play our new signings?,he made a cunt of it today with his team selection,there's nobody to blame for that other than him.

cmon if you think ross mccormack didnt put pressure on manager to play then you are wrong. hes went for total transfers of 24 million pounds and seemingly on 40k a week at villa.

[Kmcalpin]

Just now, Andy_P said:

I'm not fond of the saying "we were beaten before we set foot on the park".  You are never beaten before you step on to the park but a team selection can make a whole lot harder for you than it needs to be, and that was how it seemed to me.  Like some I too got the impression that Robinson thought we would have enough about us to use this game to help people find fitness and tinker with his formation whilst still making the next round.

You look through that team and half of them trying to bed themselves back into the side to get match fit far less messing about with formations and deploying players in roles they've rarely played.   We were told Tait didn't train with the rest of the squad in Tenerife but goes straight in. Hartley has had one game back after how long out and even then he's hardly kicked a ball in a year. It took Dunne a few months to get up to speed last season and there's no evidence to suggest it's going to be any different this time.  McCormack was supposed to be a doubt until February but somehow is deemed fit start but can only last a half watching the ball fly over him.  Turnbull withdrawn from the area in which he's been most effective and having played with two strikers we suddenly decide to go with one.  It all just felt like too much at the one time and we paid the price for it. 

Whether Robinson  goes on to pay the ultimate price for it I don't know, but much of his credit in the bank will have gone after that.

A good summing up Andy and I agree with almost all of it with the exception of not being beaten before we start. For us to have won today would have taken outstanding individual performances from almost all the players. I am struggling to comprehend the scale of mistakes that Robbo made today, many of which you cover. So so many in the one game. Rarely has a manager of ours got it so wrong in a single game

[steelman1991]

Got my wee piece of paper going through the turnstiles today, that Fir Park had been treated to a “Deep Clean” during the winter break. I expect part 2 to take place this week. Atrocious and time for change.


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[Welldaft Mk1]

I am at a loss to explain that debacle.

I went along today like most with a sense of optimism. A win v Hamilton and what looked like a decent couple of additions. A break in the sunshine to give us a chance to get injured players back etc.

We have played badly at home this season on a few occasions but that tops the lot. The players looked disinterested. The break in Tenerife obviously worked against us. It was never going to be an easy tie. They have had a couple of poor results but still sit top of the Championship. 

Robbo in his post match interview cited the £4m he has helped to bring into the club through transfers and the cup runs. You begin to wonder what shape we would be in financially if that had not happened. The worrying thing is we seem to be cash strapped and that is after £4m injection (albeit a fair slice of that went to Boyle and Hutchison). 

I am scunnered after that today. I will go along midweek v Hibs and it would be typical Motherwell to win that one. 

I have always stuck up for Robinson. Mainly because he kept us up and got us to 2 cup finals. Our budget suggests we should be 9th and that is where we are. But I am starting to wonder if a change is required. We are probably not in a position to get rid of him financially and I still think he should be allowed time to see how it goes in the league this year. If however we start sliding toward bottom 3 I will start to fall into the Robbo out camp. 

[MFCL84]

5 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We are a team completely bereft of footballing acumen because we have a manager completely bereft of footballing acumen.

Exactly this.

4-1-3-2 formation as far as I could tell. Left us completely overrun in midfield with our only creative player, Turnbull, completely lost in a sea ofblue jerseys. Our manager has no clue how to change to a system that requires passing and movement. He'll stay to the end of the season, but no contract beyond that. Let's just hope that we survive and that we still have a support to come back next season.