2018’19 Game 18:Celtic (A) Wednesday 19th December 2018

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

Very true, every manager has a sell by date, that does not make them a poor manager. Steve Clarke who seems to be loved on here was sacked by both Reading and West Brom, clearly not fit to manage. I can pretty much guarantee whoever replaces Robinson will get the same treatment shortly after the honeymoon period is over.

Steve Clarke's sacking by WBA was laughable and they've been in freefall every since.

Got them their highest ever EPL finish.

[Al B]

It's sometimes comical how far removed the fans view of something is from the clubs.

Robinson is exceeding every single target he's been set and the club are delighted with him. To be fair we should be too, given the remit thus far has basically been "keep us up, make us some money, and do it all on a low budget so we can use that money to pay debts and one-off bills".

If that was the on-going remit for the manager of the side going forward then I wouldn't be particularly happy either, but as long as he manages that first bit for now, then I'm patient enough to wait for the "once those debts and bills are paid, any money from then goes to you to improve the side and we can kick on sustainably". Think of the money that's gone to re-pay Boyle and Hutchison, put a roof on the East Stand, put a scoreboard in etc. Then think of what that money could have done to the playing staff. Those are things that have to be done, but only once, so have a bit of patience....

In actual fact given the unexpected and un-budgeted levels of money from 2 cup finals, Kipre, amongst others giving us "unprecedented record profits", Robinson has actually shaved a couple of years off the timescale. Bearing in mind what we're trying to do, ever single one of us should be (albeit a little bit bored of the On-pitch aspect of this stage in the journey), absolutely delighted with Steve Robinson. What we're essentially doing, as a much smaller version of what everyone with half a brain thinks The Rangers should have done on "The Journey"....and laughed at them when they had no patience and tried to do everything all at once, resulting in them being half decent, but drowning in debt again.

tl;dr version - We're going to be rubbish for a while until we can wipe our own backside financially, but if you keep us in the league til that point, then your playing budget increases dramatically.

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Steve Clarke's sacking by WBA was laughable and they've been in freefall every since.

Got them their highest ever EPL finish.

That was my point, clubs panic as do a percentage of the fan base. Because as we all know the grass is always greener on the other side.  Tony Pullis at Stoke, great job over a number of years but not enough for many fans, St Mirren fans hounded Danny Lennon out of the club when he’d been doing a more than acceptable job, that really ended up going well. I still tend to be of the opinion that the average professional football manager who has spent his whole adult life in the game knows slightly more about the game than 20 or so 14 year olds holding up banners outside the main stand of grounds around the UK.

[Dezz]

1 hour ago, Al B said:

It's sometimes comical how far removed the fans view of something is from the clubs.

Robinson is exceeding every single target he's been set and the club are delighted with him. To be fair we should be too, given the remit thus far has basically been "keep us up, make us some money, and do it all on a low budget so we can use that money to pay debts and one-off bills".

If that was the on-going remit for the manager of the side going forward then I wouldn't be particularly happy either, but as long as he manages that first bit for now, then I'm patient enough to wait for the "once those debts and bills are paid, any money from then goes to you to improve the side and we can kick on sustainably". Think of the money that's gone to re-pay Boyle and Hutchison, put a roof on the East Stand, put a scoreboard in etc. Then think of what that money could have done to the playing staff. Those are things that have to be done, but only once, so have a bit of patience....

In actual fact given the unexpected and un-budgeted levels of money from 2 cup finals, Kipre, amongst others giving us "unprecedented record profits", Robinson has actually shaved a couple of years off the timescale. Bearing in mind what we're trying to do, ever single one of us should be (albeit a little bit bored of the On-pitch aspect of this stage in the journey), absolutely delighted with Steve Robinson. What we're essentially doing, as a much smaller version of what everyone with half a brain thinks The Rangers should have done on "The Journey"....and laughed at them when they had no patience and tried to do everything all at once, resulting in them being half decent, but drowning in debt again.

tl;dr version - We're going to be rubbish for a while until we can wipe our own backside financially, but if you keep us in the league til that point, then your playing budget increases dramatically.

Nail on the head! Excellent post. 

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, Al B said:

It's sometimes comical how far removed the fans view of something is from the clubs.

Robinson is exceeding every single target he's been set and the club are delighted with him. To be fair we should be too, given the remit thus far has basically been "keep us up, make us some money, and do it all on a low budget so we can use that money to pay debts and one-off bills".

If that was the on-going remit for the manager of the side going forward then I wouldn't be particularly happy either, but as long as he manages that first bit for now, then I'm patient enough to wait for the "once those debts and bills are paid, any money from then goes to you to improve the side and we can kick on sustainably". Think of the money that's gone to re-pay Boyle and Hutchison, put a roof on the East Stand, put a scoreboard in etc. Then think of what that money could have done to the playing staff. Those are things that have to be done, but only once, so have a bit of patience....

In actual fact given the unexpected and un-budgeted levels of money from 2 cup finals, Kipre, amongst others giving us "unprecedented record profits", Robinson has actually shaved a couple of years off the timescale. Bearing in mind what we're trying to do, ever single one of us should be (albeit a little bit bored of the On-pitch aspect of this stage in the journey), absolutely delighted with Steve Robinson. What we're essentially doing, as a much smaller version of what everyone with half a brain thinks The Rangers should have done on "The Journey"....and laughed at them when they had no patience and tried to do everything all at once, resulting in them being half decent, but drowning in debt again.

tl;dr version - We're going to be rubbish for a while until we can wipe our own backside financially, but if you keep us in the league til that point, then your playing budget increases dramatically.

Excellent post

[Clackscat]

Take a look at Sunderland til i die on netflix to see the pain short termism causes and how those trying to unravel that have an almost impossible job. Folks have no idea of the reality of trying to structure and run a club on a sensible budget.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

[Winning by Name]

3 hours ago, Al B said:

It's sometimes comical how far removed the fans view of something is from the clubs.

Robinson is exceeding every single target he's been set and the club are delighted with him. To be fair we should be too, given the remit thus far has basically been "keep us up, make us some money, and do it all on a low budget so we can use that money to pay debts and one-off bills".

If that was the on-going remit for the manager of the side going forward then I wouldn't be particularly happy either, but as long as he manages that first bit for now, then I'm patient enough to wait for the "once those debts and bills are paid, any money from then goes to you to improve the side and we can kick on sustainably". Think of the money that's gone to re-pay Boyle and Hutchison, put a roof on the East Stand, put a scoreboard in etc. Then think of what that money could have done to the playing staff. Those are things that have to be done, but only once, so have a bit of patience....

In actual fact given the unexpected and un-budgeted levels of money from 2 cup finals, Kipre, amongst others giving us "unprecedented record profits", Robinson has actually shaved a couple of years off the timescale. Bearing in mind what we're trying to do, ever single one of us should be (albeit a little bit bored of the On-pitch aspect of this stage in the journey), absolutely delighted with Steve Robinson. What we're essentially doing, as a much smaller version of what everyone with half a brain thinks The Rangers should have done on "The Journey"....and laughed at them when they had no patience and tried to do everything all at once, resulting in them being half decent, but drowning in debt again.

tl;dr version - We're going to be rubbish for a while until we can wipe our own backside financially, but if you keep us in the league til that point, then your playing budget increases dramatically.

Superb post, couldn't agree more.

[Yodo]

4 hours ago, Al B said:

It's sometimes comical how far removed the fans view of something is from the clubs.

Robinson is exceeding every single target he's been set and the club are delighted with him. To be fair we should be too, given the remit thus far has basically been "keep us up, make us some money, and do it all on a low budget so we can use that money to pay debts and one-off bills".

If that was the on-going remit for the manager of the side going forward then I wouldn't be particularly happy either, but as long as he manages that first bit for now, then I'm patient enough to wait for the "once those debts and bills are paid, any money from then goes to you to improve the side and we can kick on sustainably". Think of the money that's gone to re-pay Boyle and Hutchison, put a roof on the East Stand, put a scoreboard in etc. Then think of what that money could have done to the playing staff. Those are things that have to be done, but only once, so have a bit of patience....

In actual fact given the unexpected and un-budgeted levels of money from 2 cup finals, Kipre, amongst others giving us "unprecedented record profits", Robinson has actually shaved a couple of years off the timescale. Bearing in mind what we're trying to do, ever single one of us should be (albeit a little bit bored of the On-pitch aspect of this stage in the journey), absolutely delighted with Steve Robinson. What we're essentially doing, as a much smaller version of what everyone with half a brain thinks The Rangers should have done on "The Journey"....and laughed at them when they had no patience and tried to do everything all at once, resulting in them being half decent, but drowning in debt again.

tl;dr version - We're going to be rubbish for a while until we can wipe our own backside financially, but if you keep us in the league til that point, then your playing budget increases dramatically.

Load of tosh if Robinson keeps serving up this dross we have to watch week in week out then the fans will vote with their feet .The attendances will go down and the money we need to pay off our debts won't be there ,the fans showed their appreciation of getting to two cup finals by record season tickets sales but the optimism shown by the fans has not been returned on the pitch.

[Yorkyred]

22 minutes ago, Yodo said:

Load of tosh if Robinson keeps serving up this dross we have to watch week in week out then the fans will vote with their feet .The attendances will go down and the money we need to pay off our debts won't be there ,the fans showed their appreciation of getting to two cup finals by record season tickets sales but the optimism shown by the fans has not been returned on the pitch.

Robinson was manager last season and we had record season ticket sales this summer. He is clearly bringing extra supporters in, not driving them away. As you have said yourself the two cup finals meant nothing.

[Andy_P]

28 minutes ago, Yodo said:

Load of tosh if Robinson keeps serving up this dross we have to watch week in week out then the fans will vote with their feet .The attendances will go down and the money we need to pay off our debts won't be there ,the fans showed their appreciation of getting to two cup finals by record season tickets sales but the optimism shown by the fans has not been returned on the pitch.

Mentioning the Cup Finals (which incidentally I thought you told us we weren't allowed to mention any more because it was all soooo last season) and Al B's call for patience puts me in mind of 1991 and the aftermath which has some similarities to this season and perhaps beyond. 

We similarly failed to build on the achievements of the previous campaign and had a completely non-descript season (Europe excepted).  Things actually deteriorated for spell into the next season again, before it all began to come together and within eighteen months we were challenging for the title and back in Europe again.  I'm hardly suggesting that Robinson is going to have us chasing league flags but it does show, as Al B alludes to, that if a degree of patience is shown then a manager can bounce back, rebuild and refresh a team.     Whether Robinson has it in him to do so remains to be seen but I'm inclined to think the board will give him every opportunity and someone crying for his dismissal at the current stage every 6th post is going to be disappointed in the short term at least.

[numpty]

6 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

I'm hardly suggesting that Robinson is going to have us chasing league flags but it does show, as Al B alludes to, that if a degree of patience is shown then a manager can bounce back, rebuild and refresh a team.

This is certainly true. The question is what does Robinson's team have to bounce back to, as it's been fairly mince all along.

[Yodo]

7 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

Mentioning the Cup Finals (which incidentally I thought you told us we weren't allowed to mention any more because it was all soooo last season) and Al B's call for patience puts me in mind of 1991 and the aftermath which has some similarities to this season and perhaps beyond. 

We similarly failed to build on the achievements of the previous campaign and had a completely non-descript season (Europe excepted).  Things actually deteriorated for spell into the next season again, before it all began to come together and within eighteen months we were challenging for the title and back in Europe again.  I'm hardly suggesting that Robinson is going to have us chasing league flags but it does show, as Al B alludes to, that if a degree of patience is shown then a manager can bounce back, rebuild and refresh a team.     Whether Robinson has it in him to do so remains to be seen but I'm inclined to think the board will give him every opportunity and someone crying for his dismissal at the current stage every 6th post is going to be disappointed in the short term at least.

Had the chance to as you call it refresh build a team over the summer and failed miserably one thing I do agree with you on is the board will back him until it's to late 

[Al B]

If his remit was to build a team that keeps us in the league on a bare-bones budget, and bide time until the major bills are paid, how exactly has he failed?

In fact, he's actually provided the club with the ability to pay a larger portion of the bills much earlier than expected. Whether you are enjoying watching it or not is completely irrelevant, success is measured against remit and he's hugely exceeding it so not only has he not failed, he's succeeding spectacularly.

"Keep Yodo entertained" wasn't in the mission statement. Sorry.

[Yodo]

Just now, Al B said:

If his remit was to build a team that keeps us in the league on a bare-bones budget, how exactly has he failed?

Is the season over or do you have a crystal ball. The only person who has said he has a bare bones budget is Robinson himself never heard a board member say that . I think you might call that looking for excuses before the failure 

[Al B]

Well you were the one who used the past tense in "failed", so this crystal ball must be all yours. Some might call that accepting failure before the outcome.

We're 9th. It's not even present tense fail-ING. Again whether or not you are enjoying yourself is neither here no there at the moment. He's massively exceeding what he's being asked to do.

You seem like the kind of guy that isn't willing to go without in one area of life whist saving for a cracking holiday, has a great time, has nice clothes, and is making minimum payments on 4 cards whilst applying for a 5th.

[Yodo]

I'm not interested whether you think think he's exceeding what's been asked of him ,all I know is the team he is putting on the pitch is sadly lacking in every department and make yer eyes bleed 

[Al B]

Yes you're absolutely right, it is. And you're just going to have to accept that until we've paid for our holiday, and then we can have nice things again.

Are you 12? Do you need to pee before we get in the car?

 

And no, we're not nearly there yet.

[Yodo]

Just now, Al B said:

Yes you're absolutely right, it is. And you're just going to have to accept that until we've paid for our holiday, and then we can have nice things again.

Are you 12?

11

[Al B]

2 minutes ago, Yodo said:

11

Well, maybe eventually you'll learn that you can't have everything you want all at once. Priorities and patience.

absolutely nailed on that you have multiple loans and credit cards.

[Yodo]

3 minutes ago, Al B said:

Well, maybe eventually you'll learn that you can't have everything you want all at once. Priorities and patience.

 

  Hide contents

absolutely nailed on that you have multiple loans and credit cards.

 

Not often your right but your wrong again 11 year olds are not allowed credit cards 

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 12/20/2018 at 1:29 AM, weeyin said:

Rotating the squad like we did tonight is the kind cold, hard professionialism that we lacked last December - and paid the price with a miserable run of results.

 

When we used 21 different players over 7 matches, 20 of those in starting positions?

Or when we didn't play the same starting line up twice at any point and made 2 or more changes in all but one match (which had 1 change).

Last December the Robinson happy clappers were using the fact that he couldn't name a settled side to defend him.

Facts don't stack up on that statement I'm afraid.

Remember I have a spreadsheet!   BTW, Alex Fisher.  Took less than a year to completely forget about him.

1. Richard Tait 7
2. Cedric Kipre 7
3. Ryan Bowman 6+1
4. Charles Dunne 6
5. Craig Tanner 5+2
6. Andy Rose 5+2
7. Carl McHugh 5+1
8. Gael Bigirimana 4+2
9. Allan Campbell 4+1
10. Liam Grimshaw 4+1
11. Peter Hartley 4
12. Trevor Carson 4
13. Alex Fisher 3+1
14. Chris Cadden 3
15. Russell Griffiths 3
16. Elliot Frear 2+2
17. Steven Hammell 2
18. George Newell 1+3
19. Deimantas Petravicius 1+2
20. Louis Moult 1
21. Ross MacLean 0+3

[Al B]

8 minutes ago, Yodo said:

Not often your right but your wrong again 11 year olds are not allowed credit cards 

Shhh.

[weeyin]

1 hour ago, Yodo said:

Not often your right but your wrong again 11 year olds are not allowed credit cards 

"you're"

[weeyin]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

When we used 21 different players over 7 matches, 20 of those in starting positions?

Or when we didn't play the same starting line up twice at any point and made 2 or more changes in all but one match (which had 1 change).

Last December the Robinson happy clappers were using the fact that he couldn't name a settled side to defend him.

Facts don't stack up on that statement I'm afraid.

Remember I have a spreadsheet!   BTW, Alex Fisher.  Took less than a year to completely forget about him.

 

If you don't know the difference between a conscious decision to rotate, and "not knowing what our best starting 11 is" then it's a pointless discussion.

Robinson was very clear last season that mistakes were made with his selections around cup games and when we played Celtic 3 times in a week. He was also very clear that last December, persisting with injured first team starters was a failure, and not having the backups of the necessary quality (and readiness) was another key failing.

But don't let all that insight interfere with your spreadsheet.