Kmcalpin Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 Some good points made above. Unlike many I have no problem with the current in vogue phrase "hoofball". Ok I do prefer open football on the deck but I can live with it. My gripe though is that we aren't playing it well and don't have the players to do it effectively. I agree that our single biggest worry is midfield and thats costing us. Since the beginning of last last season we have had no pace or creativity there. Its been good to see Cadden and Campbell emerge from the youth set up but due to a heavy domestic schedule last season and increasing international commitments (more on the way I believe) both are suffering from burnout. Cadden has regressed and Campbell is nowhere near the player he was last season. No manager will achieve a 100% success rate with transfers and Robbo has had some success but his summer recruitment in principle and in practice was wrong and we're nowing paying a heavy price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 1 hour ago, davkel said: Jeez oh ...2 sensible posts , whatever next I kind of agree with both of the posts above. We have had misfortune with injuries at the start of this season. Dunne was a huge blow. Most would agree even with Kipre that he was our best defender for much of last season. One with strength and pace. I wonder if Killie score their 2nd goal had he been playing. ATS is just not as strong or robust. I was not there yesterday but was at Tynecastle midweek. Despite not playing that well in many games we have not been soundly beaten apart from yesterday and opening day v Hibs. Midweek Hearts were way ahead of us but that is no surprise given their start to the season. We showed what we are capable of v Rangers at home and why I think we can get our season back on track. At least to the extent we won’t finish bottom 2 but sadly not much higher. I do agree with Ya Bezzer regarding recruitment. I think is has turned out to be poor this summer. Pretty much every player we source will be a gamble given the wages we have to work with. I believe however our player budget is as high as it has been since Flow was at the club. Times where we finished 2nd twice and 3rd. So I would rather have seen less players and more quality. All that said each player we have signed you can almost understand why. Donnelly for example - recently broke record for N Ireland under 21 caps. Danny - scoring goals for fun in Conference which is where we got Moult from. ATS - I thought he was a great player when he was last in Scotland. Sammon - 9 full caps for Republic of Ireland and scored 10 goals for a relegated team last season. I hope Robbo can turn it around. I like the guy. Feel he talks sense in his pre and post match interviews. He seems to be a decent man Manager but suffers no fools either. Not sure what more we can expect at Motherwell. All that said if we continue on this path and lose next 3 to 4 games the pressure will mount. We cannot as a fan owned club be relegated. It would be a disaster and changes would need to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyred Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 I though yesterday’s post match interview by Robinson was a bit of an eye opener. Never seen him look so downbeat and for the first time he had a real go at the players and the loyalty he has shown. He’s clearly now feeling the pressure and probably for the first time knows he’s at risk of being sacked. As others have said three crucial games coming up as he acknowledged himself and without 4 points minimum he could go. Without doubt Saturday against Livy is huge simply to try and start building confidence against within the squad because when that drops to a certain level it’s very difficult to get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 I dont think he should be given 3 games. Most of our players are off form. Something is seriously wrong with team spirit and he should go during the international break after we get gubbed by Livingston on saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellwell91 Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 Unless he wakes up and smells the coffee BACK 3 IS JUST NOT WORKING He’s persevered with it all season and we don’t have the players to play that system this season So unless he alters formation this week it will just show that he thinks that it is working ( probably the only one in the ground who does) If that is the case then it is time for him to go 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 3 hours ago, DEWELL said: Something is seriously wrong with team spirit Whenever I hear about 'lost the dressing room', team spirit and all that, I always think about a really interesting interview I heard from Steve Parish (Crystal Palace Chairman). The basic point was that he had rarely considered sacking a manager off the back of a poor run of results if he could see that the team was still cohesive and playing for the manager. The tipping point was always when the players stopped playing for him. With that in mind, I'm not sure whether the recent frustrations and arguments on the pitch are a good sign or a bad sign. I'd be more concerned if there was an apathetic response to losing goals, however when I see opposition teams arguing among themselves I always think it's a sign that all isn't well in that squad. I've seen some good performances this season (Rangers / Dundee / first half vs Hearts on Wednesday) where team spirit play it's part and I think Robinson will be given time to try and recapture that. You've also got to consider what sacking a manager at this stage can do to how appealing we might be to potential applicants. Robinson achieved his goals last season - keep us in the league, decent cup run and make a few quid. From the outside that's all that will matter. If he's punted 7 games into the new season we'll soon get a reputation of being a trigger happy club which will naturally reduce the quality of applicant in the future. It's a tough decision, and I get folks concerns (the stat of 35 odd games being banded about isn't good at all); however I don't think we are there yet. I doubt the club are either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, CoF said: It's a tough decision, and I get folks concerns (the stat of 35 odd games being banded about isn't good at all); however I don't think we are there yet. I doubt the club are either. Mate you have the patience of a saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 9 hours ago, star sail said: If Robinson does not make it through the next four/ five games the one thing I can guarantee is this, that the new man whoever that might be will be living on the margins just the same, because that is the nature of the club we support I He's hardly living on the margins. He has been given the resources to build a team. He has signed something like 20 players and extended Tait, McHugh and Bowman who were here when he arrived. If he fails to turn this round and doesn't see out October it will be nothing to do with fickle fans or the fan ownership. It will solely be because he made a complete and utter mess of this transfer window. Killie and St Johnstone brought in Greg Stewart and Tony Watt. Livi look to have found a decent striker in this Dolly guy. We signed Connor Sammon. We have no creativity and no decent left sided players. The buck for that stops with Robinson. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintymac Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 Ultimately it’s players who get managers the sack . And yesterday was a prime example of that . Bigi who is decent with the ball at his feet let his teammates down by basically strolling back instead of picking up the runner . Result ...goal . No wonder Carson went mental with him . Basic midfield attribute is to track your runner . Bigi has had a chance at midfield for a few games now and if we’re relying on him god help us . Tynecastle he fannies on the ball in his own 18 yard box .... result goal . Yeah he deserved his chance but imo he’s blown it . And Robinson knows that if he perseveres with him them he’s out the door . Think he’ll go back to his way next week whether it’s pretty or not . You can only be loyal for so long . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mintymac said: Bigi who is decent with the ball at his feet let his teammates down by basically strolling back instead of picking up the runner . Result ...goal . No wonder Carson went mental with him . Basic midfield attribute is to track your runner . Bigi has had a chance at midfield for a few games now and if we’re relying on him god help us . Tynecastle he fannies on the ball in his own 18 yard box .... result goal . Yeah he deserved his chance but imo he’s blown it . And Robinson knows that if he perseveres with him them he’s out the door . Think he’ll go back to his way next week whether it’s pretty or not . You can only be loyal for so long . In terms of more creative players we also have Turnbull and Gorrin waiting for their chance. Maybe the deciding factor is whether or not they can defend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintymac Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 Yip your probably right . That’s why there not starting . Creative players also need to do the dirty work to . Tracking back ,matching runs as well as being creative . Tough but that’s the modern game nowadays . No different to wing backs . Carson sees it all in front of him . Check his reaction . Imo he’s bang on the money. Being creative but lazy or not aware is no good to any team . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 If we take 10 or 12 points from our next 4 games he's doing fine. If we take 7, 8 or 9 points I'm undecided. If we take 6 or less points then I think he is under severe pressure to fix things quickly, at least by Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 On 9/30/2018 at 5:01 PM, Yodo said: Mate you have the patience of a saint Aye, probably. I'm usually at the tail end of calling for a managers head. The way I see the facts - apart from the first fortnight of last season (we were 11th after 2 games) we didn't drop below 8th. Since we're being selective about when we won games, in the last 17 last season we won 6, drew 6 and lost 5. Hardly a complete disaster. We finished top of the bottom 6 (see what I did there?). Add in 2 cup finals and you'll find that surpassed most folks pre-season ambitions after the disaster that was Mark McGhee part 2. We've had some poor performances this season and I was genuinely alarmed at what I saw in some of the league cup games. I think we've still got it in us to be absolutely shite with Robinson going at some point, but there's something in what we saw of Robinson last season to make me think he deserves the chance to turn it around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Three excellent posts in this thread in the past day, many coming at different angles and views but all doing what this forum at its core is all about .... considering an alternative view and stimulating a discussion about something we all want to see remedied. The red mist and knee jerkers add nothing. The thread exploded off the back of the Killie defeat. I guess because many think we should be going there and getting a result or at the very best competing. Steve Clarke has proven to be an astute and inspired signing for them. He turned around relegation fodder last year and with minimal recruitment sent them on a remarkable run of form. Killie benefit from strong organisational management, everyone knows their jobs and when you combine with a pitch which nuances they have already got down and we get exposed to once/twice a year then I think a visit there is up there among the top 3 hardest places to get a result in Scotland at present. Yes ... the summer recruitment wasn't good enough but last summers had more successes than failures. However we're where we are now and have to get to January with what we've got. Yes ... we haven't used the exposure and whatever extra funds were released to improve the squad but it took Dunne, Higdon and numerous others a good while to prove their worth. Yes ... with hindsight the writing was on the wall in our preseason and league cup performances and I do agree the midfield is the misfiring element but I don't think we've had a well rounded middle of the Park since Jennings era. Even the 2012-13 team that finished 2nd had deficiencies in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clackscat Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Three excellent posts in this thread in the past day, many coming at different angles and views but all doing what this forum at its core is all about .... considering an alternative view and stimulating a discussion about something we all want to see remedied. The red mist and knee jerkers add nothing. The thread exploded off the back of the Killie defeat. I guess because many think we should be going there and getting a result or at the very best competing. Steve Clarke has proven to be an astute and inspired signing for them. He turned around relegation fodder last year and with minimal recruitment sent them on a remarkable run of form. Killie benefit from strong organisational management, everyone knows their jobs and when you combine with a pitch which nuances they have already got down and we get exposed to once/twice a year then I think a visit there is up there among the top 3 hardest places to get a result in Scotland at present. Yes ... the summer recruitment wasn't good enough but last summers had more successes than failures. However we're where we are now and have to get to January with what we've got. Yes ... we haven't used the exposure and whatever extra funds were released to improve the squad but it took Dunne, Higdon and numerous others a good while to prove their worth. Yes ... with hindsight the writing was on the wall in our preseason and league cup performances and I do agree the midfield is the misfiring element but I don't think we've had a well rounded middle of the Park since Jennings era. Even the 2012-13 team that finished 2nd had deficiencies in the middle. Aye interesting also that a well fans facebook group had a poll on Robbo that last time I looked was 300/20 in favour, so whilst folks are not happy and a bad October would change the figures, the vast majority (silent majority?) do not want change now. As Busta said on the pod those calling loudly for his head now are the ones who were against him from the start. Really hope he can turn this roundSent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Why is it that folk always refer to a manager as 'Mr' when they want them sacked? Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 hours ago, thisGRAEME said: Why is it that folk always refer to a manager as 'Mr' when they want them sacked? Weird. Same reason as mothers use their kids' full names when they are about to get into trouble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyred Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Clackscat said: Aye interesting also that a well fans facebook group had a poll on Robbo that last time I looked was 300/20 in favour, so whilst folks are not happy and a bad October would change the figures, the vast majority (silent majority?) do not want change now. As Busta said on the pod those calling loudly for his head now are the ones who were against him from the start. Really hope he can turn this round Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk Because the vast majority are seeing the bigger picture and not knee jerk reactions. One or two on here have never taken to Robinson regardless of results, stated we would be relegated last season if he was not sacked and are stating the same this season. I don’t even believe all his summer signings are sh@te, they need time. Gorrin is a prime example of a player that if given that time could be a very good addition, he clearly has a level of technical ability and can pass a ball. Back up goalkeeper solid, Johnson very able and should get better, Aldred we already know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 We know Burrows has his number.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 hahaha. More 91 stuff too??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 45 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: hahaha. More 91 stuff too??? Let's make that 27th anniversary as special as it sounds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 So Steve Clarkes target for Kilmarnock this season is to keep Kilmarnock in the league? Should he be pilloried for lack of ambition like our manager when he stated the same thing? Discuss....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Nope and neither should any Scottish provincial club manager for coming out with the same patter. What sets Killie apart is that they have an outstanding coach who has the best pedigree in the league. You don’t sustain such a long career in such high profile jobs with such high profile clubs in the most high profile league in the world by running your mouth off. History has proven that all who do, finally get lynched. With regards Motherwell’s place in the food chain, sadly, all evidence (be it historical, attendance, resources available, club structure, balance sheet) shows that we are a lower half top division team. It’s a fine margin between glory and disaster. Perversely, for a club like Motherwell, avoiding both could be measured as a successful season. Premier League survival is not a god given right and I’d far rather have a Motherwell manager who recognises that and can provide necessary incentive to players and fans alike that his team can achieve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 On 10/3/2018 at 8:07 PM, joewarkfanclub said: So Steve Clarkes target for Kilmarnock this season is to keep Kilmarnock in the league? Should he be pilloried for lack of ambition like our manager when he stated the same thing? Discuss....... Read the article properly. Clarke clearly states it's his "first benchmark" with further benchmarks beyond that. Kilmarnock already have 16 points after 8 games so they will hit that benchmark probably by the end of the second round of games and move on to the next one. That's not the message coming out of Motherwell. Survival seems to be our only benchmark. As for us, we have three winnable matches coming up. We need a big performance against St. Johnstone to exorcise yesterday. A defeat to St. Johnstone puts us firmly in a bottom four situation. Then we have Dundee and St. Mirren and after that we have a very hard run of fixtures so it is absolutely imperative we get wins in these three upcoming games or we could potentially be in real big trouble. If we can't do it in the next three games Robinson is going to be under huge pressure. After that we have Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts, St. Johnstone away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Survival is always our first benchmark. Last season, once that was achieved mathematically, top 6 was our next bench mark. When that became mathematically impossible, "top of the bottom 6" became our benchmark. Right now, however, it wouldn't make much sense to be thinking about anything more than winning the next game. (Also, most manager have internal benchmarks that are never made public). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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