Robinson... How Do We Think He's Doing ?

[DEWELL]

10 wins in 40 games. Mr Burrows hope you still read the posts on here. We're crying out for a change of manager.

[weeyin]

1 minute ago, DEWELL said:

10 wins in 40 games. Mr Burrows hope you still read the posts on here. We're crying out for a change of manager.

Would you prefer the Dundee or the St Mirren approach? Or just follow the Ross County or Dundee Utd model?

It's a dangerous game at this time of year that often ends badly - not a decision to be taken lightly.

Same for all those people that think we just sign more players in January - as if clubs let their good players (that we can afford) leave in January. 

[Yodo]

5 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Would you prefer the Dundee or the St Mirren approach? Or just follow the Ross County or Dundee Utd model?

It's a dangerous game at this time of year that often ends badly - not a decision to be taken lightly.

Same for all those people that think we just sign more players in January - as if clubs let their good players (that we can afford) leave in January. 

It's a results driven business so based on facts he no longer deserves to be at the club .Yes your correct it's not a decision to be taken lightly but if we get a new manager in now at least we are giving him a chance to turn things round . Who says we need to bring players from other clubs ,we need a fresh approach and use the assets we have at the club 

[ropy]

Bringing someone new into the same framework or structure of the club to run with the same strategy is unlikely to work, something else needs to change, so why not change that other thing now?

[Yorkyred]

I’m still in the stick with him camp at this point. While we continue to beat those around us we won’t go down and I firmly believe there are three other clubs worse than us. Ok not the most ambitious of lines but we can still look again in the summer which gives a new manager the chance to sign his own players if that’s the route the board go down. Of course if there are others that think we will be relegated under Robinson this season it looks different.

[Ya Bezzer!]

23 hours ago, weeyin said:

Would you prefer the Dundee or the St Mirren approach? Or just follow the Ross County or Dundee Utd model?

It's a dangerous game at this time of year that often ends badly - not a decision to be taken lightly.

Same for all those people that think we just sign more players in January - as if clubs let their good players (that we can afford) leave in January. 

Alternatively do we wait until two of the worst ever teams in the top flight drop out before we make a change?  If you ask me we basically have a free  pass this season because St. Mirren and Dundee are absolutely dreadful.  If we wait, we might not have that safety net.  Right now we have a potential 6 months of development time that we'll probably never get again at this level.

As for signing players in January, there are different styles of player available.  The players Robinson has brought in are mostly wedded to a style of football that isn't working and is awful to watch.

It's a disgrace that the most technically advanced player in the squad is an under 20 with a handful of appearances.  We barely have more than 2 or 3 players in the squad that can take a touch and play a pass with any fluidity. 

We need better players and they need to come from somewhere.  So it has to be either the youth squad or the transfer market.  We can surely find two players that can improve the squad in January.  One can replace Sammon who should be sent back to Hearts.

[David]

On 11/15/2018 at 12:03 PM, Ya Bezzer! said:

You are right that he shouldn't be fired over one result.

But a 25% win ratio over a calendar year means that any manager at any club would be under threat and at most clubs would probably been fired already.

Robinson's league record is atrocious and that's not even taking into consideration the entertainment value, style of football and poor quality players he'd leave behind.

Out of 62 league matches, Robinson has 20 wins, not great in itself, but 10 of those wins came in this first 22 matches.  Since then we have 10 wins in 40 matches and that is very poor.

 

I agree entirely with everything you've said, but for me his job shouldn't be under threat mid-season unless we're in serious danger of going down.

Come the summer it's a different kettle of fish though, where he should be judged on a whole manner of things, including performance, results, transfer dealings etc.

But barring the potential disaster of relegation I don't support binning a manager mid-season.

[Yodo]

1 minute ago, David said:

I agree entirely with everything you've said, but for me his job shouldn't be under threat mid-season unless we're in serious danger of going down.

Come the summer it's a different kettle of fish though, where he should be judged on a whole manner of things, including performance, results, transfer dealings etc.

But barring the potential disaster of relegation I don't support binning a manager mid-season.

So your happy with the brand of football you are watching from Robinsons eleven as Beezer said any other club he would have been sacked  ,but it's great how much loyalty you can get by losing 2 finals . 

[Ya Bezzer!]

2 minutes ago, David said:

I agree entirely with everything you've said, but for me his job shouldn't be under threat mid-season unless we're in serious danger of going down.

Come the summer it's a different kettle of fish though, where he should be judged on a whole manner of things, including performance, results, transfer dealings etc.

But barring the potential disaster of relegation I don't support binning a manager mid-season.

I just think that we are in an extraordinary season when there are two teams in the league that are so bad, you can't judge Robinson on avoiding relegation.

At this stage last season bottom team Partick had 11 points, 2nd bottom team Dundee had 12 points.  Two seasons ago the bottom team at this stage, Partick again, had 13 points.

This season the bottom team Dundee has 4 points, 2nd bottom team St. Mirren has 5 points.  They are two of the worst ever top flight teams.  Finishing above them should not get Robinson off the hook for an unacceptable level of performance.

 

[weeyin]

17 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I just think that we are in an extraordinary season when there are two teams in the league that are so bad, you can't judge Robinson on avoiding relegation.

Every Motherwell manager should be judged on avoiding relegation. 

Not the only criteria, but one of the important ones. 

And Partick Thistle are in a relegation battle in the Championship right now, so I'm pretty sure we are still better than them.

[David]

44 minutes ago, Yodo said:

So your happy with the brand of football you are watching from Robinsons eleven as Beezer said any other club he would have been sacked  ,but it's great how much loyalty you can get by losing 2 finals . 

It has nothing to do with last season at all, and everything to do with getting to the end of this season with our Premiership status intact.

If and when we do that then we can look at Robinson's record and decide where to go next. 

But what would sacking him mid-season accomplish? Very little. But it could result in disruption and a tailspin. Under him this season we look like we'll do enough to stay up.

[Great Balls of Shire]

On 11/16/2018 at 12:36 PM, Yodo said:

So your happy with the brand of football you are watching from Robinsons eleven as Beezer said any other club he would have been sacked  ,but it's great how much loyalty you can get by losing 2 finals . 

Yep, because we are bored getting to 2 finals every year! 

[milo]

I think we’re playing a very dangerous game by assuming we will definitely finish above St Mirren and Dundee. There’s no denying they both look appallingly bad, but we’re absolutely rotten ourselves and the gap between us and them isn’t insurmountable.  If either win a game in the next 6 (as I’m fairly certain we won’t) then the head to heads with them at Christmas and after the break will be nerve shredding affairs!

Someone made the point (possibly on P&B) that it could be entirely possible that we only beat 2 teams all season and still stay up. And comfortably!

[David]

1 minute ago, milo said:

I think we’re playing a very dangerous game by assuming we will definitely finish above St Mirren and Dundee. There’s no denying they both look appallingly bad, but we’re absolutely rotten ourselves and the gap between us and them isn’t insurmountable.  If either win a game in the next 6 (as I’m fairly certain we won’t) then the head to heads with them at Christmas and after the break will be nerve shredding affairs!

Someone made the point (possibly on P&B) that it could be entirely possible that we only beat 2 teams all season and still stay up. And comfortably!

I don't think anyone is assuming anything, but many of us believe there's a better chance of survival under Robinson, despite the football being turgid and not all that effective against sides in the top six, than there is of removing him and bringing in someone entirely new midway through the season.

Personally, I think it's probably time for a change in the summer, when a new man can come in and bring in some of his own players and get the time to bed into the job.

[Yorkyred]

4 hours ago, David said:

It has nothing to do with last season at all, and everything to do with getting to the end of this season with our Premiership status intact.

If and when we do that then we can look at Robinson's record and decide where to go next. 

But what would sacking him mid-season accomplish? Very little. But it could result in disruption and a tailspin. Under him this season we look like we'll do enough to stay up.

That would be my worry in a nutshell, we could well go from a fairly steady ship that while pretty dour to watch is getting enough points against the teams around us to one as you say in a tailspin. There is no doubt a new manager is going to want to change things and bring in his own players, January is certainly not the easiest time to do that. If it’s going to happen give the new guy the full summer and the budget.

[superward]

Positive hat on....I do actually think we are 1 decent goal scoring striker away from having an absolutely comfortable  season.  Before Ibrox we were generally only losing by the odd goal and most games have had sitters Bowman and Main have missed. Get even one of them scoring and we'll pick up points.

Negative hat on...the football has been so boring at times it makes my eyes bleed. If we return to that and we continue with strikers not returning goals then I do think the manager will be off. 

[Andy_P]

In terms of Robinson's job security I guess it really boils down to what exactly is being asked of him by the board, which of course we aren't privvy too.

If, as he has attempted to reinforce repeatedly, he has been given a budget (and I know how much references to budgets rankles with some) and a target that equates to survival then merely scrambling along in 9th or 10th may well be sufficient for the board currently when put in context of the short-medium off field strategy of reducing the debts to Messrs Boyle and Hutchinson.

There is a balance to be struck between getting rid of the debt as quickly as possible - if I remember rightly there was a period of 5 years mentioned at whatever terms were agreed - and providing the actual football side of the business with as much as they can to help them be as competitive as they can.  Whether you view it as reason or an excuse Robinson's remarks would have you believe that there hasn't been enough emphasis on the latter.

The impact of that on the particular on the tactics, formation and style of play that a manager adopts is up for debate but gut wrenching as last Sunday was and soul sapping as many of our games have been this season there are considerations beyond the ninety minutes that will come into play when considering what happens with Robinson.

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 11/16/2018 at 1:23 PM, David said:

It has nothing to do with last season at all, and everything to do with getting to the end of this season with our Premiership status intact.

If and when we do that then we can look at Robinson's record and decide where to go next. 

But what would sacking him mid-season accomplish? Very little. But it could result in disruption and a tailspin. Under him this season we look like we'll do enough to stay up. 

It gives a chance to do something we should have done last year that Robinson neglected.  We weren't going to be relegated but no young players were given first team exposure and there was no general development at all.  We just kept doing the same old same old. 

We probably won't be relegated this season because Dundee and St. Mirren are so bad so we have until the end of the season to do what should have happened last season.  If Robinson isn't willing to take that chance, someone else should.

If we don't and we go into next season having made the same mistakes and waste that period were team development was possible 2019/20 might just be the year we go down. 

We've lucked out, we've been given a massive opportunity and still people don't want to take it. 

 

[David]

21 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

It gives a chance to do something we should have done last year that Robinson neglected.  We weren't going to be relegated but no young players were given first team exposure and there was no general development at all.  We just kept doing the same old same old. 

We probably won't be relegated this season because Dundee and St. Mirren are so bad so we have until the end of the season to do what should have happened last season.  If Robinson isn't willing to take that chance, someone else should.

If we don't and we go into next season having made the same mistakes and waste that period were team development was possible 2019/20 might just be the year we go down. 

We've lucked out, we've been given a massive opportunity and still people don't want to take it. 

We're currently 6 points clear of 11th, and 7 points clear of 12th.

Our next six games are against Aberdeen and Celtic at home, and Livingston, St Johnstone, Hearts and Celtic away.

St Mirren's next six games are against Hearts, Aberdeen, and Hamilton at home, and Hibs, Livingston and us away.

Dundee have got Accies and Rangers at home, and Hibs, Killie, Aberdeen and Celtic away.

All ifs, buts and maybe's, but if we're honest we could just as easily end up three or four points off St Mirren in 11th as we could pull away from them.

I personally wouldn't risk binning the manager and bringing someone new in to develop the kids when the threat of relegation is still very much a possibility. Sacking a manager mid-season is a last resort.

[Gadgey]

On 11/18/2018 at 11:46 AM, David said:

We're currently 6 points clear of 11th, and 7 points clear of 12th.

Our next six games are against Aberdeen and Celtic at home, and Livingston, St Johnstone, Hearts and Celtic away.

St Mirren's next six games are against Hearts, Aberdeen, and Hamilton at home, and Hibs, Livingston and us away.

Dundee have got Accies and Rangers at home, and Hibs, Killie, Aberdeen and Celtic away.

All ifs, buts and maybe's, but if we're honest we could just as easily end up three or four points off St Mirren in 11th as we could pull away from them.

I personally wouldn't risk binning the manager and bringing someone new in to develop the kids when the threat of relegation is still very much a possibility. Sacking a manager mid-season is a last resort.

And putting your faith in youth in such a precarious position would be an act of desperation.

 

[David]

2 hours ago, Gadgey said:

And putting your faith in youth in such a precarious position would be an act of desperation.

 

And could even end up ruining careers.

For me, the best option is to get to the end of the season and see what happens from there.

[weeyin]

6 hours ago, David said:

And could even end up ruining careers.

For me, the best option is to get to the end of the season and see what happens from there.

Same here.  

Despite the capitulation at Ibrox, I have actually been encouraged to see Turnbull and Bigi in the midfield and trying to play a bit more football. The next few games will show if that Rangers performance was a blip or a trend. If it's a trend, we might need to reassess at the end of December, but January transfers are never going to fix any team's problems unless you have tens of millions to spend. So even with a new gaffer we'd be dependent on the core squad we have now.

[Clackscat]

'but January transfers are never going to fix any team's problems unless you have tens of millions to spend'


Jack Ross at St Mirren turned over virtually a full team in a January transfer window when they were rock bottom of championship, and I doubt he spent a huge amount of money, so it can be done, although you could argue they had nowt to lose at the time



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[weeyin]

2 hours ago, Clackscat said:

'but January transfers are never going to fix any team's problems unless you have tens of millions to spend'


Jack Ross at St Mirren turned over virtually a full team in a January transfer window when they were rock bottom of championship, and I doubt he spent a huge amount of money, so it can be done, although you could argue they had nowt to lose at the time
 

Jack Ross had Lewis Morgan - and as recent events have proved - they were a one man team completely dependent on him.

I think I'd rather have our squad than the St Mirren squad, thanks.

[Clackscat]

Jack Ross had Lewis Morgan - and as recent events have proved - they were a one man team completely dependent on him.

I think I'd rather have our squad than the St Mirren squad, thanks.

Wasn't saying I would rather have their squad (thanks ??),

 

just pointing out he turned it round with a complete squad overhaul. Kept them up from a seemingly impossible position then got promotion.

 

The fact Stubbs came in and made a right royal erse of it by sidelining a lot of that squad and falling out with all and sundry, meant there was more to their downturn than losing Morgan and doesn't deflect from the point that a January window can turn around things even without millions spent.

 

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