Robinson... How Do We Think He's Doing ?

[Andy_P]

He's not going to change the minds of a chunk of the support though.  The die is cast for some and they are just marking time until the next guy comes in and gets told of his failings that make him not good enough.

We could get 12 points from the next four games and all it would take it is another loss and the previous four wins would be downplayed.  For some he's been living on borrowed time probably since that first run of defeats in the December that followed the 2017 League Cup Final. 

That he got to another Final, qualified for Europe, has kept the team in the division, rebuilt three, possibly four different teams across his tenure to overcome the challenges of the day, played his part in generating millions of pounds that have put club in its strongest off the field footing for years and achieved everything the board have asked him to achieve doesn't matter. 

They've decided.

 

 

[wellsince75]

Robinson has during his tenure improved the league positions + couple of cup runs + profited from some players he brought in (Kipre, Heneghan etc) He's also benefited and helped the group of very decent youngsters who have come through (Cadden, Scott, Campbell, Turnbull, Haste mk1)  

Until now we've been progressing well. pre season I had thought we were headed for a great season - it's not panning out that way. 

Last year is impossible to improve as we'd no right to be in top 3.  Anything from 8th-4th is where I expect us to be. 

What's not clear at the moment is the direction,  what type of football/formation are we trying to embed ? do we have more youngsters coming through ? 

It may just be a wobble , I hope it is but clear direction and belief in a system is required - otherwise it's akin to McCalls last season when he ran out of ideas. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by wellsince75
spelling errors

[texanwellfan]

I hope and expect to be sitting in the top 6 come the end of October. 

[star sail]

1 hour ago, Andy_P said:

He's not going to change the minds of a chunk of the support though.  The die is cast for some and they are just marking time until the next guy comes in and gets told of his failings that make him not good enough.

We could get 12 points from the next four games and all it would take it is another loss and the previous four wins would be downplayed.  For some he's been living on borrowed time probably since that first run of defeats in the December that followed the 2017 League Cup Final. 

That he got to another Final, qualified for Europe, has kept the team in the division, rebuilt three, possibly four different teams across his tenure to overcome the challenges of the day, played his part in generating millions of pounds that have put club in its strongest off the field footing for years and achieved everything the board have asked him to achieve doesn't matter. 

They've decided.

 

 

When you see his achievements summarised like this it seems all the more unbelievable that we have the Robinson out chat as often as we do. 

He has done a really good job as your summary shows. You have to wonder just what would make some of the supporters happy given that Cup Finals and third place finishes don't cut it. 

For some reason Robinson's face does not fit with sections of our support and no amount of success will change their view. My gut feeling is that were he Scottish, he would be given more respect than he is currently afforded. 

I have always felt that the Scottish managers (Brown, McGhee, McCall) have been afforded a benefit of doubt than the non Scottish managers (Gannon, Baraclough, Robinson) have not, despite managerial records at Motherwell that are broadly similar. 

My own opinion is that all the above mentioned managers have made a significant contribution to keeping Motherwell in the  top flight despite us having no divine right whatsoever to be there. 

The exception to this in recent times is ofcourse Maurice Malpas. You can't defend the indefensible. 

[ropy]

Nobody wants him gone, he is as good as we can get, no reasonable person would say otherwise.

[Yorkyred]

9 hours ago, Andy_P said:

He's not going to change the minds of a chunk of the support though.  The die is cast for some and they are just marking time until the next guy comes in and gets told of his failings that make him not good enough.

We could get 12 points from the next four games and all it would take it is another loss and the previous four wins would be downplayed.  For some he's been living on borrowed time probably since that first run of defeats in the December that followed the 2017 League Cup Final. 

That he got to another Final, qualified for Europe, has kept the team in the division, rebuilt three, possibly four different teams across his tenure to overcome the challenges of the day, played his part in generating millions of pounds that have put club in its strongest off the field footing for years and achieved everything the board have asked him to achieve doesn't matter. 

They've decided.

 

 

Absolutely spot on. I’ve asked the question before to those that have wanted him out since the back end of 2017 what final league placing is acceptable because at the end of the day that’s what counts. The club’s aim every season is to stay in the top flight, something the vast majority of rival clubs have failed to do, he’s continued to achieve that and some. We have a stable club with a stable management, if he was sacked the same individuals would be calling for the next managers head within months of his appointment, nothing would be good enough. We could play an Aberdeen off the park but the next defeat and we would still have the worst group of players in the league.

[wellsince75]

25 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

Absolutely spot on. I’ve asked the question before to those that have wanted him out since the back end of 2017 what final league placing is acceptable because at the end of the day that’s what counts. The club’s aim every season is to stay in the top flight, something the vast majority of rival clubs have failed to do, he’s continued to achieve that and some. We have a stable club with a stable management, if he was sacked the same individuals would be calling for the next managers head within months of his appointment, nothing would be good enough. We could play an Aberdeen off the park but the next defeat and we would still have the worst group of players in the league.

I don't believe it's reasonable for our main aim is to stay in the league.  Given we've been in the SPL since the mid 80s it's reasonable to expect us to be a mid table team.   

[Spit_It_Out]

100 percent we should be a top 6 club every year why not?however would we have finished 3rd if the league was finished early?I have my doubts but we did but when you look at our results since start of the year we have have been utterly terrible and this years recruitment has been poor,we are a carrying a fair few players that need to leave.

If we don't go on a run between now and Christmas we are going to be in major bother as from January we tend to be terrible he does bang on about getting to cup finals and finishing 3rd in league but doesn't add didn't win any of them and cause the league was stopped early.

 

[Great Balls of Shire]

16 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

100 percent we should be a top 6 club every year why not?however would we have finished 3rd if the league was finished early?I have my doubts but we did but when you look at our results since start of the year we have have been utterly terrible and this years recruitment has been poor,we are a carrying a fair few players that need to leave.

If we don't go on a run between now and Christmas we are going to be in major bother as from January we tend to be terrible he does bang on about getting to cup finals and finishing 3rd in league but doesn't add didn't win any of them and cause the league was stopped early.

 

Quite a lot of supposition in that one ...maybe we will be great from Jan onwards and maybe we would have finished third??

[C&A not the shop]

Football management is funny business. You can do a good job for 4 years but by year 5 you fall off a cliff edge. 

It happened with McCall and it might be happening with Robinson. If this is the end of the line then he still leaves with my thanks for the job he's done (which he's been well rewarded for). 

I hope it's not the end and he can turn it round but in willing to accept it might be his time despite being a fan of his.

 

We're the 6th or 7th biggest club in the country, that's our place that's where we are in supporter numbers and that's where we sit in terms of points gained over 100 years and over 20 years. 

We're going to have ups and downs, our highs haven't been as high as a cup win but they haven't been as low as a relegation.  I'll be honest and say that's probably more luck than great stewardship but it is what it is. As fans a cup win and a relegation then coming back up would be better than staying in the league and not winning anything but it's far more precarious a position financially.

 

Short term, we weren't really good enough to be third last year, and this year we're probably better than 11th or 12th but sometimes the bounce goes with you, sometimes against you.

[Yodo]

Don't go to Fir Park ( when allowed ) to sit and talk with mates about how much money we have in the bank how sound a footing we have I go to get entertained something that hasn't happened for a while .Some of the football we have played under Robinson would make your eyes bleed and some of his signings have been horrific. You can harp on as much as you like about budget and plenty of you do,his job like the manager of the Faroe Islands team who are on the brink of qualifying for the group stages is to get the best out of the players and coaching them how he wants them to play .I don't expect us to finish top 6 every season we should be good enough to stay away from the bottom two places ,we really have been terrible since Xmas his signings have been terrible as I have said before some of them shouldn't be at Fir Park . If we don't win on Friday night then he has to go fed up listening to his excuses 

[Andy_P]

43 minutes ago, Yodo said:

Don't go to Fir Park ( when allowed ) to sit and talk with mates about how much money we have in the bank how sound a footing we have I go to get entertained something that hasn't happened for a while .Some of the football we have played under Robinson would make your eyes bleed and some of his signings have been horrific. You can harp on as much as you like about budget and plenty of you do,his job like the manager of the Faroe Islands team who are on the brink of qualifying for the group stages is to get the best out of the players and coaching them how he wants them to play .I don't expect us to finish top 6 every season we should be good enough to stay away from the bottom two places ,we really have been terrible since Xmas his signings have been terrible as I have said before some of them shouldn't be at Fir Park . If we don't win on Friday night then he has to go fed up listening to his excuses 

And you illustrate my point perfectly.

We haven't finished in the bottom two in any of the seasons we have had Robinson in charge.  We didn't finish in the bottom two in the season he took over in March.

He's delivering what you've asked of him but you still want rid.

 

 

[Spit_It_Out]

I just feel that we are not progressing now any more under Robinson on the football side we look like we have no ideas at all where if we go down a goal thats it.

Anything less than 6 plus points in October then we need be seriously thinking about replacing him.

 

[Yodo]

5 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

And you illustrate my point perfectly.

We haven't finished in the bottom two in any of the seasons we have had Robinson in charge.  We didn't finish in the bottom two in the season he took over in March.

He's delivering what you've asked of him but you still want rid.

 

 

He isn't entertaining anybody who turns up at Fir Park and I'm not settling for the rubbish he puts on the park, it really is a grind even to watch the televised games 

[Big Stall]

13 minutes ago, Yodo said:

 it really is a grind even to watch the televised games 

 

Generally you do talk pish, but this point above, I've got to agree with it 100%

 

For me, we shouldn't be anywhere near sacking the manager. What is worrying however is that we don't look (Aberdeen game aside) to have any kind of goal threat. Nothing is happening between the midfield and strikers. Personally I think that might be due to a lack of creativity and guile on the wings, but whatever it is, it's not working. People can rightly grumble as much as they want about the Rangers penalty decisions but the facts are that we created the square root of fuck all and never really threatened their goal. That for me, is the issue.

Do I think Robbo should go - of course not. But he really needs to change something up and do it quickly.

[steelboy]

10 hours ago, ropy said:

Nobody wants him gone, he is as good as we can get, no reasonable person would say otherwise.

So by that logic are White, Lamie, Seedorf and McGinlay as good as we can get?

 

[Yodo]

39 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

And you illustrate my point perfectly.

We haven't finished in the bottom two in any of the seasons we have had Robinson in charge.  We didn't finish in the bottom two in the season he took over in March.

He's delivering what you've asked of him but you still want rid.

 

 

So when you go to watch Motherwell do u  go to be entertained or just accept what's being served up in front of u . 

[CoF]

12 hours ago, star sail said:

I have always felt that the Scottish managers (Brown, McGhee, McCall) have been afforded a benefit of doubt than the non Scottish managers (Gannon, Baraclough, Robinson) have not, despite managerial records at Motherwell that are broadly similar. 

I agree with everything you said apart from this part about Scottish managers. The records aren't broadly similar at all?

Brown took us to 5th and left us the next season in 5th place - he was steady. McCall finished 2nd and 3rd, broke all sorts of records and gave us the most exciting team of the last 20 odd years yet some fans turned him very quickly in his last season, McGhee took us to 3rd and 7th and the fans (rightly)  turned on him in his second spell when it was clear he was losing the actual plot.

Gannon was a nutjob who was let go for refusing to sign a permanent contract but l I can't recall the fans hounding him out? If anything, most pointed the finger at the senior players when things started to go wrong. Baraclough almost got us relegated, playing some of the worst football I've ever seen along the way then started the following season in a similar vein. 

I think all of that points to fans reacting to what they see on the pitch and is nothing to do with the nationality of the manager.  I think Robinsons problem is that despite his success, there have been a few lengthy losing streaks where we look completely incoherent. Those months of traipsing to Fir Park with little to look forward to stick in folks minds and are far more relevant than the fact he's not Scottish. 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

So by that logic are White, Lamie, Seedorf and McGinlay as good as we can get?

 

What a crock of shite comparing managerial / coaching ability to playing ability, Klopp, Ferguson, Shankly,  mouhrinuo, some of the best managers in the world were average at best players.

Some top class players can make great managers, but its a whole different skill set to coach a team, in terms of SR his record in his time at Fir Park is decent, cup finals, European football,  with the resources at his disposal.

Where do you honestly think Motherwell should be in the league, what is your expectation of success over 38 games?  

[Yorkyred]

2 hours ago, Yodo said:

So when you go to watch Motherwell do u  go to be entertained or just accept what's being served up in front of u . 

Personally I go to support the team regardless, I’m fully aware that under any manager I’m not going to be watching Premier league level football but the Scottish Premiership which let’s be honest is poor. I’ve seen us under Barraclough, McGee, and Robinson. I would say I’ve enjoyed the Robinson experience more than under the other two. 

[Andy_P]

2 hours ago, Yodo said:

So when you go to watch Motherwell do u  go to be entertained or just accept what's being served up in front of u . 

I'm not sure what my hopes and expectations when I go to see Motherwell have to do you with you being asked to justify a near weekly call for the manager to be replaced?

[Yodo]

30 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

I'm not sure what my hopes and expectations when I go to see Motherwell have to do you with you being asked to justify a near weekly call for the manager to be replaced?

It tells me if u had tickets to see a big act and some tribute act turns up in their place you wouldnae make a fuss . Me calling for the manager to go every week is with what I'm watching on the park every week well below standard football if you can call it football 

[steelboy]

3 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

What a crock of shite comparing managerial / coaching ability to playing ability, Klopp, Ferguson, Shankly,  mouhrinuo, some of the best managers in the world were average at best players.

Some top class players can make great managers, but its a whole different skill set to coach a team, in terms of SR his record in his time at Fir Park is decent, cup finals, European football,  with the resources at his disposal.

Where do you honestly think Motherwell should be in the league, what is your expectation of success over 38 games?  

Robinson continually signs then plays players who aren't good enough. 

He's the one signing them. If he's the best manager we could possibly have the inference is that no other manager could sign someone better than Seedorf to come off the bench or Lamie or White or Robbie Crawford.

[Yorkyred]

5 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Robinson continually signs then plays players who aren't good enough. 

He's the one signing them. If he's the best manager we could possibly have the inference is that no other manager could sign someone better than Seedorf to come off the bench or Lamie or White or Robbie Crawford.

If he “ continually signs players who aren’t good enough” how have we not been relegated ?

[nsj]

5 hours ago, Big Stall said:

 

For me, we shouldn't be anywhere near sacking the manager. What is worrying however is that we don't look (Aberdeen game aside) to have any kind of goal threat. Nothing is happening between the midfield and strikers. Personally I think that might be due to a lack of creativity and guile on the wings, but whatever it is, it's not working. People can rightly grumble as much as they want about the Rangers penalty decisions but the facts are that we created the square root of fuck all and never really threatened their goal. That for me, is the issue.

Do I think Robbo should go - of course not. But he really needs to change something up and do it quickly.

I agree totally with this.

I generally regard myself as being in the happy clapper camp but  lately I have been driven mad by how boring and predictable the tactics have become.  There is no pace, very little skill on show, everything is basic. 

Is it a case that we don't have any more to offer, could it be down to confidence or something else?