Robinson... How Do We Think He's Doing ?

[Yodo]

12 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

If he “ continually signs players who aren’t good enough” how have we not been relegated ?

Who did u watch before turning up at FP just asking so we can make a comparison.

[Great Balls of Shire]

Yodo and steelboy have been stirred into action...it'll be something negative then

[steelboy]

20 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

If he “ continually signs players who aren’t good enough” how have we not been relegated ?

He inherited some good players and some even better ones came through the youth system. 

If we sell Allan Campbell this will be the first 100% Robinson team. 

[Yodo]

5 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Yodo and steelboy have been stirred into action...it'll be something negative then

Cmon then put a positive spin on the rubbish we have been watching without mentioning he got us to 2 cup finals 

[Stu92]

22 minutes ago, Yodo said:

Cmon then put a positive spin on the rubbish we have been watching without mentioning he got us to 2 cup finals 

We finished 3rd last season.

[Yodo]

14 minutes ago, Stu92 said:

We finished 3rd last season.

Only because the season finished early and in my opinion if had finished we would have been lucky to finish 5th you only have to look at the form we were in .

[Onthefringes]

 Regardless, history books will always state we finished 3rd

[Stuwell2]

10 minutes ago, Yodo said:

Only because the season finished early and in my opinion if had finished we would have been lucky to finish 5th you only have to look at the form we were in .

So you think finishing 5th would have been a poor season and as such the manager should have been sacked for only getting us to 5th? 
 

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

He inherited some good players and some even better ones came through the youth system. 

If we sell Allan Campbell this will be the first 100% Robinson team. 

Ah ok, so none of his signings over the last 3 years have been ok, he had nothing to do with those players coming through, giving them that chance and developing them. Or of course improving players that he inherited. Absolutely no credit due for anything.

Good luck to our next manager then, he’s going to need it.

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, Yodo said:

Who did u watch before turning up at FP just asking so we can make a comparison.

Just about everyone in every division from the top flight right down to the lowlands league. Season tickets at Rangers/Hamilton/PartickThistle.

[0Neils40yarder]

I dont think there is football manager anywhere on the planet who doesnt have his faults and doesnt get them picked apart by some of the clubs ultra-critical fans...

 

...certain things annoy me about the manager, and quite often I differ on my views of the same game that he is watching but surely folk arent serious when they think we should be sacking the guy at this early stage of the season after finishing 3rd (aye, that's where we finished Yodo) last time out?

[star sail]

LOL. It is like Groundhog Day. We keep going round and round in circles making the same points. I am as guilty as anyone. I love the manager chat. 

I remember arguing with Steelboy in 2008? about Jim Gannon. 12years later and I am still saying the same things for managers, he is still saying the same things against them. 

Keeps our mind off worrying about a pandemic. 

[steelboy]

2 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

Ah ok, so none of his signings over the last 3 years have been ok, he had nothing to do with those players coming through, giving them that chance and developing them. Or of course improving players that he inherited. Absolutely no credit due for anything.

Good luck to our next manager then, he’s going to need it.

He's signed some decent players but I'm struggling to think of many in the final third. Main is probably his best attacking signing and Cole on loan. 

[Shaka]

I want to add my reasoning to the debate here. I know Im tagged as a boo boy as well, but I at least want to show the reasons my opinions are the way they are. Motherwell are the 6th biggest club in the country, historically and points wise. That, and the league quality being utter shite, I feel finishing around 6th / 7th should be our level. With that being said,

In Robbos first season, we finished 7th and made 2 cup finals. An undoubted success! We got pumped in both finals but made a good bit of money. However, after the League Cup Final, we went on a run of 2 wins in the following 21 league matches! 

Robbos second season we finished 8th, got a qf in the League Cup and 5th round in the Scottish Cup. Not what Id call a successful season, but not a bad season either! However in this season we went on 2 awful runs, winning 1 of our first 9 and 1 in 7 during December

Last Season was incomplete. Both cups were very poor! The 3rd place finish is a nice CV header but means little considering the season still had a quarter to run. However wether we had finished 3rd, 5th or 6th if the season had run its course, the fact we guaranteed 6th meant it was a good season, nothing more than good due to the 2 bad cup exits. However, once again, we went on a shocking run, winning 2 of our last 10.

This season we are 2 wins from 9. 

My biggest concern is that unlike in previous seasons, we dont have Moult/Main in 17/18, Turnbull in 18/19 or Scott/Donnelly in 19/20 to drag us through games. Yes Donnelly is still here but he's out till the New Year and Long is a shadow of the player he was last year. We also dont have players like Tait, Aldred, Hartley & McHugh who can lead the team anymore!

Every season Robbos teams go on lengthy shocking runs, but have ALWAYS had a Turnbull / Moult / McHugh / Aldred / Hartley to push us on. This season we not only have none of that, we have players in Lamie, McGinley, Seedorf, Hylton & White who are nothing more than mid table Scottish Championship players, and thats being kind to Seedorf!

Add to that the fact that 3 months into working with this squad, the manager doesnt know his best 11, doesnt know his most effective formation, and the team are making the exact same mistakes they were 8 months ago. 

I have never once said Steve Robinson has done a bad job here. He hasnt! But by the same measure, he isnt some kind of messiah either!! Everyone has an expiry date, and I just feel his has come at Fir Park.

This season, our squad is weaker, evidently poorly coached, poorly organized and Im not even sure they seem as motivated as in previous years, theres just something not right. With Campbell undoubtedly away in the next 2 weeks I really do fear for our league status with no goals or leaders in the team

[star sail]

24 minutes ago, Shaka said:

I want to add my reasoning to the debate here. I know Im tagged as a boo boy as well, but I at least want to show the reasons my opinions are the way they are. Motherwell are the 6th biggest club in the country, historically and points wise. That, and the league quality being utter shite, I feel finishing around 6th / 7th should be our level. With that being said,

In Robbos first season, we finished 7th and made 2 cup finals. An undoubted success! We got pumped in both finals but made a good bit of money. However, after the League Cup Final, we went on a run of 2 wins in the following 21 league matches! 

Robbos second season we finished 8th, got a qf in the League Cup and 5th round in the Scottish Cup. Not what Id call a successful season, but not a bad season either! However in this season we went on 2 awful runs, winning 1 of our first 9 and 1 in 7 during December

Last Season was incomplete. Both cups were very poor! The 3rd place finish is a nice CV header but means little considering the season still had a quarter to run. However wether we had finished 3rd, 5th or 6th if the season had run its course, the fact we guaranteed 6th meant it was a good season, nothing more than good due to the 2 bad cup exits. However, once again, we went on a shocking run, winning 2 of our last 10.

This season we are 2 wins from 9. 

My biggest concern is that unlike in previous seasons, we dont have Moult/Main in 17/18, Turnbull in 18/19 or Scott/Donnelly in 19/20 to drag us through games. Yes Donnelly is still here but he's out till the New Year and Long is a shadow of the player he was last year. We also dont have players like Tait, Aldred, Hartley & McHugh who can lead the team anymore!

Every season Robbos teams go on lengthy shocking runs, but have ALWAYS had a Turnbull / Moult / McHugh / Aldred / Hartley to push us on. This season we not only have none of that, we have players in Lamie, McGinley, Seedorf, Hylton & White who are nothing more than mid table Scottish Championship players, and thats being kind to Seedorf!

Add to that the fact that 3 months into working with this squad, the manager doesnt know his best 11, doesnt know his most effective formation, and the team are making the exact same mistakes they were 8 months ago. 

I have never once said Steve Robinson has done a bad job here. He hasnt! But by the same measure, he isnt some kind of messiah either!! Everyone has an expiry date, and I just feel his has come at Fir Park.

This season, our squad is weaker, evidently poorly coached, poorly organized and Im not even sure they seem as motivated as in previous years, theres just something not right. With Campbell undoubtedly away in the next 2 weeks I really do fear for our league status with no goals or leaders in the team

Much of what you have said is not unreasonable but I think you look too negatively on what might happen and use that has a basis of fact. 

You seem convinced that Motherwell would not have finished 3rd last season if it was played to a close yet you simply don't know what would have happened. None of us do. 

I don't remember anybody complaining about the quality of the squad in August. In fact many were excited by the apparent strength of the team. 

I think a few of the players will come good in the coming weeks. Long,  Lang, Polworth, Gallagher are all good players who will find there stride and become the influencial players like a few you mentioned from recent seasons. 

Who is to say we will lose Campbell this window? You just never know. 

Give it a month and let's see from there. The reality might be better than you think. 

Remember the Hibs and Aberdeen performances. That is how it could be. Keep the faith. 

[Yodo]

4 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

So you think finishing 5th would have been a poor season and as such the manager should have been sacked for only getting us to 5th? 
 

Having already said in a previous post that we should be finishing anything outside the bottom 2 every season then 5 th would be fine . Your missing the point for me it's all about performance and if you tell me the performances after Xmas were good and you were loving going to FP I'm going to call u a liar . I have been quite clear on my  wanting Robinson gone ,the football he plays is turgid and some of the players he has signed are woeful the enjoyment for me going to Fir Park has gone all down to Robinson . Why don't we just give him the job for life then we will know the road we are going down .

[GazzyB]

Some interesting comments but the chat about "yeah but we only finished 3rd because the season finished early" is nonsense. Last year the season ended on the day we were meant to play Aberdeen at home. We've JUST scudded them 3-0 at Pittodrie while bottom of the league.

 

It's an unbelievable disservice to Robinson and the players to suggest we weren't capable/good enough/likely to finish 3rd last year purely because we were on a bad run.

[Shaka]

1 hour ago, star sail said:

Much of what you have said is not unreasonable but I think you look too negatively on what might happen and use that has a basis of fact. 

You seem convinced that Motherwell would not have finished 3rd last season if it was played to a close yet you simply don't know what would have happened. None of us do. 

I don't remember anybody complaining about the quality of the squad in August. In fact many were excited by the apparent strength of the team. 

I think a few of the players will come good in the coming weeks. Long,  Lang, Polworth, Gallagher are all good players who will find there stride and become the influencial players like a few you mentioned from recent seasons. 

Who is to say we will lose Campbell this window? You just never know. 

Give it a month and let's see from there. The reality might be better than you think. 

Remember the Hibs and Aberdeen performances. That is how it could be. Keep the faith. 

100% convinced we wouldnt have finished 3rd. And considering how we have carried on since restarting I dont think that is an unreasonable assumption. 

I agree I may be looking at it too negatively, however my worry isnt about quality in this team, as I believe we have that in abundance (when everybody is fit and on form!) Its about leadership and the fact we have none. And thats from the Manager right down through the squad

[Stuwell2]

1 hour ago, Yodo said:

Having already said in a previous post that we should be finishing anything outside the bottom 2 every season then 5 th would be fine . Your missing the point for me it's all about performance and if you tell me the performances after Xmas were good and you were loving going to FP I'm going to call u a liar . I have been quite clear on my  wanting Robinson gone ,the football he plays is turgid and some of the players he has signed are woeful the enjoyment for me going to Fir Park has gone all down to Robinson . Why don't we just give him the job for life then we will know the road we are going down .

Definitely didn’t enjoy the second half of the season.
I did enjoy the first half of the season and the way we played  - didn’t you?

Im inclined to think that the second half was down more to the way teams lined up against us due to the fact they knew that we could hurt them if they were to play an open and attacking game. 
They have continued that style against us this season and that, with the fact that the team in general has played poorly, has us in the position we are.
The OF face the same style but manage wins because they can afford £10K a week players while we can only afford £1K/£2K a week players. 

with that said, unlike you, I’m still willing to give SR time to adjust the team and get us out of the position we’re in. 

[CoF]

2 hours ago, Yodo said:

Having already said in a previous post that we should be finishing anything outside the bottom 2 every season then 5 th would be fine . Your missing the point for me it's all about performance and if you tell me the performances after Xmas were good and you were loving going to FP I'm going to call u a liar . I have been quite clear on my  wanting Robinson gone ,the football he plays is turgid and some of the players he has signed are woeful the enjoyment for me going to Fir Park has gone all down to Robinson . Why don't we just give him the job for life then we will know the road we are going down .

I get what your saying. I mind the second season McCall took us to 2nd - we played some of the most bland football I've ever seen. We just kept on winning yet at times it felt like a lower/mid-table type of season. Even that last day win over Aberdeen was 90 minutes of dirge.  Not to take away from that achievement, but the season before that we won fewer games and finished with fewer points, but we had Higdon, Murphy and Ojamaa etc playing the most exciting football we'd seen in years. It felt like we could take on anyone, and we proved it by beating Celtic twice at the end of the season. 

I think you need to be careful in what you wish for though. This idea that we could play entertaining football, finish 10th and all go home happy is a myth. If we're finishing 10th, it's because we've been absolutely shite with a handful of wins dotted through the season. I might be wrong, but I'm not sure if you'd be on here defending the manager after every defeat because we played some nice passing football. 

[Yorkyred]

10 hours ago, Shaka said:

I want to add my reasoning to the debate here. I know Im tagged as a boo boy as well, but I at least want to show the reasons my opinions are the way they are. Motherwell are the 6th biggest club in the country, historically and points wise. That, and the league quality being utter shite, I feel finishing around 6th / 7th should be our level. With that being said,

In Robbos first season, we finished 7th and made 2 cup finals. An undoubted success! We got pumped in both finals but made a good bit of money. However, after the League Cup Final, we went on a run of 2 wins in the following 21 league matches! 

Robbos second season we finished 8th, got a qf in the League Cup and 5th round in the Scottish Cup. Not what Id call a successful season, but not a bad season either! However in this season we went on 2 awful runs, winning 1 of our first 9 and 1 in 7 during December

Last Season was incomplete. Both cups were very poor! The 3rd place finish is a nice CV header but means little considering the season still had a quarter to run. However wether we had finished 3rd, 5th or 6th if the season had run its course, the fact we guaranteed 6th meant it was a good season, nothing more than good due to the 2 bad cup exits. However, once again, we went on a shocking run, winning 2 of our last 10.

This season we are 2 wins from 9. 

My biggest concern is that unlike in previous seasons, we dont have Moult/Main in 17/18, Turnbull in 18/19 or Scott/Donnelly in 19/20 to drag us through games. Yes Donnelly is still here but he's out till the New Year and Long is a shadow of the player he was last year. We also dont have players like Tait, Aldred, Hartley & McHugh who can lead the team anymore!

Every season Robbos teams go on lengthy shocking runs, but have ALWAYS had a Turnbull / Moult / McHugh / Aldred / Hartley to push us on. This season we not only have none of that, we have players in Lamie, McGinley, Seedorf, Hylton & White who are nothing more than mid table Scottish Championship players, and thats being kind to Seedorf!

Add to that the fact that 3 months into working with this squad, the manager doesnt know his best 11, doesnt know his most effective formation, and the team are making the exact same mistakes they were 8 months ago. 

I have never once said Steve Robinson has done a bad job here. He hasnt! But by the same measure, he isnt some kind of messiah either!! Everyone has an expiry date, and I just feel his has come at Fir Park.

This season, our squad is weaker, evidently poorly coached, poorly organized and Im not even sure they seem as motivated as in previous years, theres just something not right. With Campbell undoubtedly away in the next 2 weeks I really do fear for our league status with no goals or leaders in the team

It’s amazing how these players have suddenly improved after leaving us. Tait could not get in the team and was done. Hartley was a hoofball, carthorse who was also as good as done after the injury, McHugh was simply useless, not my words but the sort of comments on here from a few. How have they suddenly turned into leaders that drive the team forward, they all took dogs abuse at times.

[Great Balls of Shire]

11 hours ago, Shaka said:

I want to add my reasoning to the debate here. I know Im tagged as a boo boy as well, but I at least want to show the reasons my opinions are the way they are. Motherwell are the 6th biggest club in the country, historically and points wise. That, and the league quality being utter shite, I feel finishing around 6th / 7th should be our level. With that being said,

In Robbos first season, we finished 7th and made 2 cup finals. An undoubted success! We got pumped in both finals but made a good bit of money. However, after the League Cup Final, we went on a run of 2 wins in the following 21 league matches! 

Robbos second season we finished 8th, got a qf in the League Cup and 5th round in the Scottish Cup. Not what Id call a successful season, but not a bad season either! However in this season we went on 2 awful runs, winning 1 of our first 9 and 1 in 7 during December

Last Season was incomplete. Both cups were very poor! The 3rd place finish is a nice CV header but means little considering the season still had a quarter to run. However wether we had finished 3rd, 5th or 6th if the season had run its course, the fact we guaranteed 6th meant it was a good season, nothing more than good due to the 2 bad cup exits. However, once again, we went on a shocking run, winning 2 of our last 10.

This season we are 2 wins from 9. 

My biggest concern is that unlike in previous seasons, we dont have Moult/Main in 17/18, Turnbull in 18/19 or Scott/Donnelly in 19/20 to drag us through games. Yes Donnelly is still here but he's out till the New Year and Long is a shadow of the player he was last year. We also dont have players like Tait, Aldred, Hartley & McHugh who can lead the team anymore!

Every season Robbos teams go on lengthy shocking runs, but have ALWAYS had a Turnbull / Moult / McHugh / Aldred / Hartley to push us on. This season we not only have none of that, we have players in Lamie, McGinley, Seedorf, Hylton & White who are nothing more than mid table Scottish Championship players, and thats being kind to Seedorf!

Add to that the fact that 3 months into working with this squad, the manager doesnt know his best 11, doesnt know his most effective formation, and the team are making the exact same mistakes they were 8 months ago. 

I have never once said Steve Robinson has done a bad job here. He hasnt! But by the same measure, he isnt some kind of messiah either!! Everyone has an expiry date, and I just feel his has come at Fir Park.

This season, our squad is weaker, evidently poorly coached, poorly organized and Im not even sure they seem as motivated as in previous years, theres just something not right. With Campbell undoubtedly away in the next 2 weeks I really do fear for our league status with no goals or leaders in the team

I dont always agree with you but That is a well balanced piece and you could be right , we dont have a special player to pull us up the league ....hopefully not.

At least you've made your argument well ...others should take note ...

[Shaka]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

It’s amazing how these players have suddenly improved after leaving us. Tait could not get in the team and was done. Hartley was a hoofball, carthorse who was also as good as done after the injury, McHugh was simply useless, not my words but the sort of comments on here from a few. How have they suddenly turned into leaders that drive the team forward, they all took dogs abuse at times.

It isnt about their ability to play. Look at Hartley & Aldred, they organized on the pitch. McHugh may have been limited but took responsibility and tried to keep those around him going, as did Tait. Look at how well Declan showed up with Hartley beside him, and how poor he has been this season with Lamie & Bevis beside him! We have no leaders at the moment other than Campbell who is a "lead by example" type. Could it be Donnolly? I dont know but even if it is, he is out till the new year!

Our squad is very unbalanced. Robinson has made big noises about how thorough we are in our recruitment and look at temperament etc to make sure we have "the right characters" so Im very surprised the likes of Tait & Hartley werent replaced character wise. We do need some new recruitment, but it needs to be guys with leadership qualities and a bit of ability about them. Unfortunately with 2 weeks left in a transfer window those kind of players are non existant without transfer fees! The last thing we need is panic loans or bodies in for the sake of it

[Kmcalpin]

7 minutes ago, Shaka said:

It isnt about their ability to play. Look at Hartley & Aldred, they organized on the pitch. McHugh may have been limited but took responsibility and tried to keep those around him going, as did Tait. Look at how well Declan showed up with Hartley beside him, and how poor he has been this season with Lamie & Bevis beside him! We have no leaders at the moment other than Campbell who is a "lead by example" type. Could it be Donnolly? I dont know but even if it is, he is out till the new year!

Our squad is very unbalanced. Robinson has made big noises about how thorough we are in our recruitment and look at temperament etc to make sure we have "the right characters" so Im very surprised the likes of Tait & Hartley werent replaced character wise. We do need some new recruitment, but it needs to be guys with leadership qualities and a bit of ability about them. Unfortunately with 2 weeks left in a transfer window those kind of players are non existant without transfer fees! The last thing we need is panic loans or bodies in for the sake of it

Both Hartley and Tait had character in spades and they are missed for that quality but thats it. Neither were cutting it footballing wise. We don't currently have the "character" that the likes of St Johnstone and Accies traditionally have/had. We're also lacking a bit of hardness in the team and we're a bit soft at the moment (Well Fan For Life and Casagolda on P & B). Like them, I would not advocate that we return to a "Thunderdome" style, whatever that is.  As you say Shaka, we're unbalanced at the moment. We also lack pace, despite having some speedy players on the books but who are not playing, playing well or being used to their strengths.  

[David]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:06 AM, Yodo said:

He isn't entertaining anybody who turns up at Fir Park and I'm not settling for the rubbish he puts on the park, it really is a grind even to watch the televised games 

Then don't watch. If you want entertainment, watch the English games on Sky, or the Spanish games.

In reality I've been entertained in the traditional sense very little in my time as a Motherwell fan, which is to be expected considering the level we're operating at in the transfer market, but entertainment isn't the be-all and end-all for me. It's the team I support, I have an emotional investment in the club, and as such the money we have in the bank, and how sound a footing we are on is very much a priority.

Honestly, I don't know a proper fan of any club who doesn't care about those things? Who just want to sit down, watch some exciting football, then fuck off home again. If you don't want to bother yourself with the details of supporting a club like Motherwell and you're just after pure entertainment, you're probably in the wrong place. Pick another team for that.

Every Motherwell game is "entertaining" to me in the sense that I'm gripped by the action from start to finish. I kick every ball, I shit myself when the opposition gets through on our goal, and I leap from my couch when we squander a sure chance to score.

To a neutral many of our games would be absolute dross, in the same way as I rarely find myself watching, for example, Accies play St Johnstone. To me that game would be boring. But to an actual fan of either club, it's their weekend.

Again, if I felt about the club the way you seem to, which is not giving a fuck about the financial stability or how sound a footing we're on and only caring about being entertained during the 90 minutes, I'd probably watch another team. If it's entertainment you're after, there's certainly better out there.