Lukemfc1 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 It's crazy the difference a year makes. This time last year we were being treated to that Moult chip in the semi-final, one of my favourite 'well memories in the last few years. Aye, maybe the cup runs skewed our judgement a bit but I think we all starting to wake up now. To be honest the cup runs last season gave me more satisfaction than any top 6 finish so I think that's the reason many have had so much goodwill for Robinson. The goodwill now though is quickly evaporating. Saturday was complete dirge. Anyone who was there could tell you it was a match devoid of any quality. The ending was so predictable. That p***ed me off but not as much as Robinson's now trademark nonsense post-match interview. 'I thought for 60 minutes we played well, we had chances' 'we got the ball down and played' followed by standard and empty threats about changing the line up. Obviously Robinson is trying to put his own spin on things but I'm not sure why he thinks it's acceptable to suggest we played well for 60 minutes. If that's us playing well we are in for a very traumatic season. Having possession does not constitute playing well in a football game. I am fed up of going to watch utter drivel then being told otherwise after the match. The standard of football we are being served up is very low. At the moment it would seem that Robinson has turned us into a poor EFL League 1 side who play for set pieces and percentage football. The level of technical ability in the side is much lower than even most of McGhee's sides. This is demonstrated very clearly when you watch David Turnbull on Saturday. The boy has more ability than the vast majority of the senior team, so much so that his creative passes were far too well thought out for Main and co to understand. If we get beat against St Mirren I think it's time for Burrows to step in. Generally though even if we win our next 2 games there are some serious questions about where we are going as a club. In terms of Robinson himself - Style of play is awful and tactics are one dimensional. - Techincal ability of players is very poor. - Recruitment is limited. For me, there is also wider questions here surrounding the fan model and whether this is funding team recruitment to a high enough level. Is the current spend going to comfortably let us achieve our club ambitions? Why (going on last years figures) did we have the 2nd lowest budget in the SPFL? We need to be prudent yes but our model should allow us to spent more than the likes Partick and St Johnstone. We are an established top division club and need to fund this accordingly. Our current budget is mainly limiting our recruitment to utter dross from the lower reaches in England. We seem unwilling/unable to compete for Scottish based players for example. Ultimately there has been a lot of positive noises coming out of the club for some time but at the moment it looks like this was lacking very little substance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Was honestly expecting to wake up today to Robinson being sacked/ resigned. He's not turning this around. He doesn't have the players to turn it around, which is at least in part, his own fault. I get the feeling the club are going to try stick it through until after the transfer window to see what he can do with a few new signings. It would have to be some outstanding incoming players to get us out this mess. Off the top of my head I can't remember us ever being this short of points at this stage of the season, and I've seen us have some shocking starts. I don't know if I just got too used to us riding high and being one of the better team in the league's, but the team we are putting out now and the way we are playing just feels miles short of the quality we should be getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Lukemfc1 said: For me, there is also wider questions here surrounding the fan model and whether this is funding team recruitment to a high enough level. Is the current spend going to comfortably let us achieve our club ambitions? Why (going on last years figures) did we have the 2nd lowest budget in the SPFL? We need to be prudent yes but our model should allow us to spent more than the likes Partick and St Johnstone. We are an established top division club and need to fund this accordingly. Our current budget is mainly limiting our recruitment to utter dross from the lower reaches in England. We seem unwilling/unable to compete for Scottish based players for example. Sorry, but I'm not giving Robinson the budget as an excuse. If we're running with a tight budget then why do we have so many centre midfielders? Rose, Grimshaw, McHugh, Bigirimana, Gorrin, Campbell, Garden, Donnelly, Turnbull can all play there. Do we have one proper right winger at the club? People are suggesting playing 433, how do you do that without a right winger? Our budget may be small but a bigger question is how it is being used. Hartley, Dunne, Aldred, Mbulu, McHugh, Donnelly, McGuire can all play centre back. People complain about a lack of width in the team. Most of our budget, you could argue, has been spent on centre midfielders and centre halfs... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukemfc1 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, MelvinBragg said: Sorry, but I'm not giving Robinson the budget as an excuse. If we're running with a tight budget then why do we have so many centre midfielders? Rose, Grimshaw, McHugh, Bigirimana, Gorrin, Campbell, Garden, Donnelly, Turnbull can all play there. Do we have one proper right winger at the club? People are suggesting playing 433, how do you do that without a right winger? Our budget may be small but a bigger question is how it is being used. Hartley, Dunne, Aldred, Mbulu, McHugh, Donnelly, McGuire can all play centre back. People complain about a lack of width in the team. Most of our budget, you could argue, has been spent on centre midfielders and centre halfs... Aye, you are right. Robinson has been guilty of misusing the funds he has at his disposal. There have been numerous examples of this, even last season bringing in guys like Demi who had less ability than the youth players in the same position. I totally agree there. My point regards budget is probably off-topic in regards to the Robinson discussion to be honest with you. I just feel like the level of investment in the team could be better and may be something we need to review if we are to comfortably stay in the division. Yes, Robinson should be recruiting better and more intelligently but I have serious reservations about the current club model if Hamilton Accies are paying basically the same money on wages as us: Motherwell - £42,662 per week v Hamilton £41,488 (last year) This ofcourse could have changed over the summer but I doubt it. Regardless of manager we can't continue to invest at this level and expect to be challenging for top 6. Yes, most clubs in the SPFL have some sort of single benefactor but it is the job of the fan model to present and implement a model which is realistic and in-line with fan expectations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Lukemfc1 said: I just feel like the level of investment in the team could be better and may be something we need to review if we are to comfortably stay in the division. Yes, Robinson should be recruiting better and more intelligently but I have serious reservations about the current club model if Hamilton Accies are paying basically the same money on wages as us: Motherwell - £42,662 per week v Hamilton £41,488 (last year) This of course could have changed over the summer but I doubt it. Regardless of manager we can't continue to invest at this level and expect to be challenging for top 6. Yes, most clubs in the SPFL have some sort of single benefactor but it is the job of the fan model to present and implement a model which is realistic and in-line with fan expectations. Good post. Setting club budgets is not an exact science as we all know. There's no guarantee that if we set the budget at say 10th place we'll finish 10th or above. Outwith the big, city clubs, Kilmarnock and Dundee will be paying bigger wages for sure. However I wouldn't have thought that the likes of Livingston, Partick, Accies, St Mirren and St Johnstone would be paying much higher if at all. If they are then questions need to be asked. Now I'm not suggesting that we up our playing budget hugely as we just can't afford that, with debts to service, but if we are paying say 10th highest then that is cutting things just too neat for my liking. Other things being equal we'd finish in 10th but if a few variables go wrong that leaves no room for error at all. I've seen a few figures being bandied about and quotes being made to the effect that we pay/were paying the second lowest in the league. If that is indeed true then we might well get what we're paying for i.e. 11th or 12th spot. Balance that outlay against the cost of relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyRoss Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Wrote this earlier, my take on the last year under Robbo. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintymac Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 I know hindsight is the perfect science but not so sure he got the captaincy right after McHugh . Looked ok at the time and was fans choice but getting a bit weary of Hartleys comments . Read his last piece and same old stuff . He goes on about strong mentalities and winners in the dressing room . Maybe so but on a Saturday they look like rabbits in the headlights and lack confidence especially when fans have a go at them . As far as playing well in a few games mmmmm...... . Not so sure about that . Wish he would just do his talking on the park . If I’m right Hartley has conceded 3 free kicks on edge of the box (hibs accies and livi) all resulting in goals and all needless and reckless . And I’ve not even talked about his passing/long diagonals . Time to stop the talk and do the walk . Tbf it applies to quite a few of them but Hartley is the captain and has the most to say usually . Patience running low with him now. Does anybody else think Robbo is regretting that decision 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Mintymac said: Looked ok at the time and was fans choice but getting a bit weary of Hartleys comments . Read his last piece and same old stuff . He goes on about strong mentalities and winners in the dressing room . Footballers rarely have anything interesting to say on a regular basis at the best of times, to be honest. Out of interest, what sort of things would you want our club captain to be saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Had to laugh at Andy Rose comments today in paper about how they can't wait to get back on the park and prove everyone wrong.....Aye cos the fans who've been watching shit performances for months are all wrong. Do yer talking on the park and stop coming out with crap like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Kind of get what your saying but if a player came out and said "Aye, to be honest, we are shite and just not good enough, not going to change and I'm dreading the next game"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, superward said: Kind of get what your saying but if a player came out and said "Aye, to be honest, we are shite and just not good enough, not going to change and I'm dreading the next game"? Exactly. It's just standard media management these days. The journos ask the predictable questions and the players trot out the well rehearsed answer. Thanks to the outrage levels in the Scottish media - and even moreso in social media these days - few are allowed to say what they actually think. That's why I used to enjoy McGhee (and Big Mick's) press conferences. They were used to dealing with the Glasgow journalists and quite adept at keeping them in their place while saying something worth listening to. Not always sensible in McGhee's case, but a change from the usual presser. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintymac Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 hours ago, numpty said: Footballers rarely have anything interesting to say on a regular basis at the best of times, to be honest. Out of interest, what sort of things would you want our club captain to be saying? How about something like “you guys the fans must be sick and tired of me talking the talk so we’ll bunker down and do our talking on the park ..... for a change “That would do . Short and sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 Managers are judged on results and signings. Results this season are clearly disappointing. Signings? Robinson has signed 25 players in his time at the club. Gk Carson Griffiths Xenodochov Ferguson Gillespie DF Kipré Dunne Hartley Aldred Donnelly Hendrie Taylor-Sinclair Mbulu Plummer MF Rose Grimshaw Bigirimana Tanner Gorrin Petravicius FW Fisher Newell Main Sammon Johnson Obviously some of those players (Mbulu, Ferguson, Xenodochov) have never featured for the first team and a few (Newell, Donnelly, Taylor-Sinclair, Johnson, Sammon) have had limited opportunities. Some have already moved on again (Fisher, Plummer, Griffiths and a few others). Looking at the list though, I'd be interested to think how many of them would be seen as unqualified successes? For me, there's maybe four or five. Mainly they're in the defensive area of the field. Kind of ties in with results in that we're not conceding lots of goals but we're not scoring enough. Makes it kind of easy to portray him as an unimaginative, defensive coach whose only strength is stopping other teams. Problem is that it only takes one mistake to concede a goal. A long way of saying for him to turn a corner, he'll have to address the attacking side of the game. Which will be difficult given the lack of success in his attacking signings. I suspect he won't be our manager on December 1st... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 To be fair - in his first summer Robinson had to rebuild a team from scratch, find a way to ditch some of the older player while shoring up a leaky defence and avoid relegation. We finished 7th and got to 2 cup finals with that completely rebuilt team. So he deserves huge credit for that as it's a rarity at any level of the game. And I say that as someone who was quick to critcize the lack of entertainment of offer some weeks. It's difficult to tell how effective some of the new signings have been as the manager is wedded to his "have to earn the right to play football" approach and seems reluctant to change things too much. I understand a number of the new guys were intended to be backups, but if we ever needed to change things up and bring in backups, it's now. It's a little ironic that someone who is quite happy to change a formation 25 minutes into game when things aren't working still persists week to week with a general tactics that aren't working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 On 10/01/2018 at 12:35 PM, texanwellfan said: If we take 10 or 12 points from our next 4 games he's doing fine. If we take 7, 8 or 9 points I'm undecided. If we take 6 or less points then I think he is under severe pressure to fix things quickly, at least by Christmas. Based on my criteria set previously I no longer think he is doing fine. If he doesnt win against St Mirren and Dundee then he is in deep shit and us along with him. If that's the case then what does he have to do by Christmas to keep his job? I think if he can have us in 8th place or better by the end of the year and 9 point gap over 11th spot he stays but he needs to have some expectations laid out for him if he wants to continue into next season. Yes we need results but there has to be some attempt to play some football that people will pay to come and watch. We need to play the system that suits the players or if he sticks with 352 he needs to be buying players that can play in that system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 That's reasonable. The next 2 games are definitely going to shape our season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, texanwellfan said: Based on my criteria set previously I no longer think he is doing fine. If he doesnt win against St Mirren and Dundee then he is in deep shit and us along with him. If that's the case then what does he have to do by Christmas to keep his job? I think if he can have us in 8th place or better by the end of the year and 9 point gap over 11th spot he stays but he needs to have some expectations laid out for him if he wants to continue into next season. Yes we need results but there has to be some attempt to play some football that people will pay to come and watch. We need to play the system that suits the players or if he sticks with 352 he needs to be buying players that can play in that system. I'll have some of whatever your on ,buy players I wouldn't let him buy a drink he'd comeback wae the wrong order .8th place by the end of the year Smiddy must be filling your head wae nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Yodo said: I'll have some of whatever your on ,buy players I wouldn't let him buy a drink he'd comeback wae the wrong order .8th place by the end of the year Smiddy must be filling your head wae nonsense nb kb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Yodo said: I'll have some of whatever your on ,buy players I wouldn't let him buy a drink he'd comeback wae the wrong order .8th place by the end of the year Smiddy must be filling your head wae nonsense For the first time in a long time, there’s some reasoned argument for why perhaps there should be a change of manager. Reasoned argument that Yodo has failed to convey in his prolonged and consistent (I’ll give you that) attack of Robinson. So what do you do Yodo when others are coming round (all be it a bit more rationally) to potential agreement with you? Seek to belittle and goad other users. Obviously, grammar and punctuation are not your strong point. Aren't you a clever boy or girl? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 We don't have a striker worth a damn at the club Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 11 hours ago, Gadgey said: For the first time in a long time, there’s some reasoned argument for why perhaps there should be a change of manager. Reasoned argument that Yodo has failed to convey in his prolonged and consistent (I’ll give you that) attack of Robinson. So what do you do Yodo when others are coming round (all be it a bit more rationally) to potential agreement with you? Seek to belittle and goad other users. Obviously, grammar and punctuation are not your strong point. Aren't you a clever boy or girl? Sorry Sir didn't know it was an English class and not a football forum .Away and get a life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couttsy Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 My take on this is whilst we have been poor, ok very poor, I still think we have enough in the squad to finish above at least two of St Mirren, Dundee & Accies (in fact I suspect we'll finish just above all three)......However, anything less than 4 points from the next games will see us looking for the panic button! Dont fancy going into that really tough run of games Nov/Dec with confidence levels as low as they are.............I still think we'll do enough to stay up but it may be tight and it deffo wont be pretty.........For those of you who insist that we are doomed you can get 8/1 on a bottom 2 finish and 22/1 on a bottom finish from Skybet! Lets hope the bookies are right............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Balls of Shire Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Yodo said: Sorry Sir didn't know it was an English class and not a football forum .Away and get a life He's got a point, I would have used a comma after Sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Yodo said: Sorry Sir didn't know it was an English class and not a football forum .Away and get a life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyred Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 hours ago, Haggischomper said: We don't have a striker worth a damn at the club Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Johnstone still has potential in my view, Bowman is effective with the right partner as he was alongside Moult, and Tanner has a level of skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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