Robinson... How Do We Think He's Doing ?

[MelvinBragg]

53 minutes ago, The African said:

Robinson deserves at least a little time to try and sort things out. The success of last season surely buys him that? Let's see where we are after the first round of fixtures. 

My own opinion is that we have lost the easiest fixture of the season as I struggle to see how anyone could be worse than Accies today (other than us). 

By eleven games gone, we will be a minimum of six points adrift at the bottom of the league. Not beyond repair but on that basis, the club will stick with Robinson till it is too late...

[Yorkyred]

Far too early for anyone to be calling for him to go, St Mirren fans hounded out Danny Lennon because they thought someone else could work wonders with little money and they then endured four years of misery. How many posts were there on here last season stating we were going to get relegated ? Be very careful what you wish for.

[middleeastdave]

Probably the most disappointing result in years for me, but it is only two games into the season, I am sure all will be forgiven if we beat Rangers!!

As much as I have supported Sammon when we signed him, but that is waning very quickly and is basically the inevitable cart horse that I can see as all he is doing is causing fouls against us by running into players when trying to go for a header

[MelvinBragg]

7 hours ago, Happy Dosser said:

I think this has the potential to be a long, hard season but I doubt Livingston or St Mirren will be setting the heather on fire and we have  DFC and Panathonaccies to consider. The Tractor Boys seem weak at the mo too.

Livingston have Kenny Miller who while getting on, will score goals at this level  St Mirren have momentum on their side and Accies came looking for a point and left with three without having to break sweat. Dundee under McCann look a poor side but they have Caulker, a leader, at the back and McGowan, loathsome as he may be, a player that makes things happen. What do we have? The best keeper in the league but he can't score goals or dictate play for us . 

We are going down. And my first game was in 1982, so I've seen it before and I'm not hysterical about it. But I'm certainly allowed to be pissed off about it.. 

[Shaka]

Ive been vocal in my criticism of Robinson but as yet Im not calling for his head, although I believe we should be considering it after the next 3 games unless there is a drastic turn around.

Last season we started well but after November, fell off a cliff! This reaction I believe is more an accumulation of that, the summer recruitment and the start of this season than knee jerk. The start of last season and League cup final bought Robinson extra credit, I believe any other manager would have been sacked last January after the horrendous run of form we endured but he remained. Then the Scottish Cup final bought Robbo yet more credit and look how he has "spent" that?! Lets be honest, the 2 cup finals were nice to get to, but the highlight of both games for me was Cook & Indis World Buffet afterward! The "performances" were average to pathetic and we lost both at a canter. 

Once again we have made an utter cunt of a potentially great situation! How good would it have been to actually build something this summer? We would have some money and a lot of dead wood out of contract and some very promising performances from a couple of our young players, but instead we strengthen the fucking bench players, and at the moment strengthen is going some! That means when we ultimately sell someone (Kipre) or lose players to injury (Dunne,Bowman, Tanner) our starting 11 is actually WEAKER than last season?! Surely even the simplest of people understand that you strengthen "numbers 12-18" by buying better players, forcing last seasons guys to improve or warm the bench? And surely our policy of developing youth means we should be having even 1 or 2 of our young players properly involved in matchday squads instead of firing a few on loan and keeping a couple of token subs we are never gonna use? 

Now on to this season, we started brilliantly against Edinburgh City but were actually outplayed the entire second half of that game. We "lost" to Stranraer and scraped past QOS & Clyde with horrible performances. There has been no cohesion or build up from our pre season, we need match fitness in players and yet we play a different team every 45 mins in each of our 3 friendlies, we need to build a settled team but we chop and change in all 4 League Cup Matches, and the result is we lose our first 2 league games at a canter and I believe Robbo has no clue as to his actual best formation and starting 11. We now have a cup game v Livvy we should win but our confidence looks shot even at this early stage, and then league matches against Hearts & Rangers, both of whom look like they will murder us! We are playing football so badly it could make your eyes bleed and It looks like Robinson has no clue how to change it. We are in exactly the same situation Oldham were in when Robbo was sacked and for me thats worrying. 

[Kmcalpin]

As far as I'm concerned, Robbo still has a bit in the bank from his achievements last season.  However, that goodwill will peter out if our poor run continues into the end of September or perhaps slightly earlier if other rival teams leave us adrift at the bottom.  Early days though and no cause to panic, although yes I have concerns. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

Sadly I have now sobered up and yesterday was not a bad dream.  I am undergoing a conversion from happy clapper to moaning Minnie. 

We were comfortable in the game yesterday, but whilst not looking threatening as such we were the better team. 

But as is the way a team seemingly need only 1 shot on goal to score. Either we are terribly unlucky or we are as bad as it is starting to appear.  Outside the cups our league form has been poor and on the evidence of yesterday it is easy to see why. Even our form players of last season have gone into reverse. Hartley and Main in particular look shadows of the players they were. With Hartley that is costing us goals and with Main not scoring any. 

I admit to being flummoxed by the subs yesterday. Clearly Robbo went for broke and it backfired. Surely one of Main or Sammon had to come off for Johnson and unless he had an injury I would literally never sub Alan Campbell. 

I don’t know where the goals are going to come from. And that is a worry when it is clear our defence is apparently weaker than last season. 

We need a performance and result to galvanise and kick start our season. It has to be a win in either of the next two games. Lose the next 2 and the knives will be out more than they even are now. 

Even this early on I think we need to take a bit of a gamble and spend some money on a goal scorer. Maybe Lawrence Shankland at Ayr. There is absolutely no evidence that Main and Sammon are a working partnership. 

So far even a couple of games in it looks like it will be a long hard season ahead. 

 

[underboyleheating]

53 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Either we are terribly unlucky or we are as bad as it is starting to appear.

Even this early on I think we need to take a bit of a gamble and spend some money on a goal scorer. Maybe Lawrence Shankland at Ayr.

You need to make your own luck in this game. We currently have more strikers than a box of Swan Vesta’s so recruiting yet another ‘goal scorer’ is not a realistic option. However, I believe in Johnson we have a player with the raw potential to score the goals required if only Robinson would give him a start.

[Kmcalpin]

I agree with a lot of that Iain.  Its worth pointing out, as Steelboy has done, that of the team who started yesterday only one, Sammon, wasn't with us last term.  The two new lads played a grand total of 40 minutes when they were brought on.  In the main its the established players who aren't doing it, for various reasons.  As for Alan Campbell, he's one of my favourites in the squad, but yesterday he just wasn't up to it. When he was subbed, the guy next to me said, rightly, that he hadn't been involved in the game and had done nothing.   Most unlike him.   I just wonder if he was fit?  Yes we need a performance and soon to kick start our season.   

[Richie]

There's no point buying another striker unless we modify our style of play.

Also, Robinson said in his interview that the front 2 didnt click and he's trying to find best partnership, but persists with pairing Main and Sammon.

Illogical.

Also there is all this talk of getting balls in the box, but that has to come from wide areas and getting decent crosses in.

You can do that by going direct, but need decent hold up play in the first instance and then to find runners in the wings.

At the moment its flick-ons to noone.

I'm fairly 'happy clappy' and hopefully we find our feet but its concerning that our only plan seems to be route 1 and physicality.

At the moment we have an unfortunate combination of horriffic football and miseeable defeats.

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

5 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

 As for Alan Campbell, he's one of my favourites in the squad, but yesterday he just wasn't up to it. When he was subbed, the guy next to me said, rightly, that he hadn't been involved in the game and had done nothing.   Most unlike him.   I just wonder if he was fit?  Yes we need a performance and soon to kick start our season.   

I'd agree with that.  I'm Allan Campbell's biggest fan but he wasn't at the races yesterday and unless he plays our midfield is down by about 75% effectiveness.

Maybe he's carrying a knock or maybe there is a general malaise that is effecting even our better players, whatever the reason we need him back on his game.

[DEWELL]

Yes our style of play is brutal. This punt the ball forward and hope to win the 2nd ball is hopeless. Our deliveries into the box are awfull . Lost count of the overshot crosses from Cadden, Bigi and Frear against Accies.We need a left back who can get past the midfield down the flank and put decent balls into our strikers. We've signed a left back yet had Tait whose right footed playing there. Rose is awfull so is Salmon. We need to get working on the training ground to improve. I believe we have decent players and with a change of approach can still have a good season. Surely Robinson must realise that the current style of play and some of the duffers in our team can't continue. If things don't change soon I'm afraid a change of manager required.

[David]

Those calling for the managers heads should be fully aware that we don't have a reactionary leadership at this club, he'll be given until the end of October at least unless we do something mental like not winning a single game over the next five to seven ties.

[steelboy]

It's very possible we won't score in any of our next three games. Livi are solid at the back, Rangers look to have made good signings in defence and Hearts don't concede many at home.

Five games without a goal would have to result in the sack.

[Yodo]

26 minutes ago, David said:

Those calling for the managers heads should be fully aware that we don't have a reactionary leadership at this club, he'll be given until the end of October at least unless we do something mental like not winning a single game over the next five to seven ties.

That's a possibility so really if we don't beat Livi on Saturday then the board have a big decision to make 

[wellwell91]

Don’t think anyone should be shouting for the managers head

BUT he real has to step up and prove his metal and show that he understands what’s going on

To this end IMO he has until the end of October to get it sorted.

Last season we had a settled back 3 with Kipri Hartley (Aldred) Dunne, all 4 very physical but with pace of Kipri and especially Dunne getting us out of trouble

Yesterday we play back 3 of Aldred McHugh Hartley yip still physical but absolutely no pace and that where we were caught out for the free kick that lead to Accies goal.

So we have to revert to a back 4 and decide what 2 out of Aldred McHugh Hartley play at centre half and not revert to playing McHugh in the middle of the park a decision has to be made and he has got to be brave enough to make it.

In the middle a ball winner/someone to break up play so it’s either Campbell or Rose or Grimshaw…… a no brainier IMO has to be Campbell …… so why did we give Rose and Grimshaw contract extensions??

Up front it is blindingly obvious that Sammon and Main are not a partnership don’t look like they will ever be one so Johnston (whose looks eager,hungry something to prove anytime he has come on) or young Scott should come in. If he thinks they are canno last 90 mins he could give one 60 mins the bring the other on. Main is so far of the pace at the moment he just does not look fit and I’m no Sammon seem to have more about him at the moment if we stop firing long balls at him.

Over to you Mr Robinson your paid to make the decisions but most people sitting in the POD yesterday could see the problems that urgently need to be addressed 

[Katie]

Interesting to read the comments from the match thread from our implosion v St Johnstone last season. Well, interesting if you're sad like me. 

Seems that the problems that were evident last year at the beginning of the season (a lot of possession but no cutting edge, unsettled defence, unbalanced midfield) are the same problems that we're experiencing now. There is, of course, the argument that the manager should have identified this and remedied it, but given  the team eventually began to come good, we may need to show just a fraction more patience. 

[joewarkfanclub]

How do you judge how a manager is doing?

I would say for a manager with the 2nd lowest budget in the league to finish 7th after narrowly missing out on top 6 and getting to 2 cup finals in the same season, losing on both occasions to a Champions League level team, has to be considered a resounding success.

You can certainly argue that the quality of football hasnt been that easy on the eye. But did we get that success because of the style adopted or in spite of it?

I agree we have had a poor start to the season and the performances have been grim. But if you balance that against the injuries, suspensions, trying to bed in new players and get fitness up to speed, then there have been factors at play.

My main concern is that Im not quite sure Robbo knows what his best 11 is now or what tactics to use to get the best out of them. There have been some strange starting selections and substitutions made considering the players we have brought in.

Far too early to be even considering this topic after last season. If we get to December and things havent improved or we get isolated at the foot of the table then the board have a decision to make in advance of the January window. But at the moment we need to rally behind the team and support the players and the manager and give them every opportunity to turn this around.

[Kmcalpin]

13 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

My main concern is that Im not quite sure Robbo knows what his best 11 is now or what tactics to use to get the best out of them. There have been some strange starting selections and substitutions made considering the players we have brought in.

 

Thats not unusual this early in the season.  Its usually the end of September for a first pick 11 to emerge.  Its happened in years gone by and it'll happen again this time.  

To some extent strange selections and substitutions can be explained by the fitness, or lack of, of the new players coming in and injuries.  They are not all at the same stage.  For example I expected to see far more of Taylor-Sinclair, even although he has had a fitness mountain to climb. 

Many on here don't like the long ball game or "hoofball" as its now being termed. I have no problem with it whatsoever providing that its effective but the problem is that currently its not effective.  We don't seem to have the strikers with the aerial ability to play it well or the midfielders to provide the appropriate ammunition.  We also seem to have deserted the energetic pressing game of last season. 

[Guest]

On 8/12/2018 at 7:52 AM, MelvinBragg said:

We are going down. And my first game was in 1982, so I've seen it before and I'm not hysterical about it. But I'm certainly allowed to be pissed off about it.. 

Fifty quid charity bet says we don't.

[Del_Superwell]

I reckon we will see a vast improvement at the top end of the pitch when Bowman and Tanner especially are fit, both were key to our success last season and will be again this season,  I think Tanner coming back will be like a new signing to the squad.   

[ONeils4oyarder]

1 hour ago, thisGRAEME said:

Fifty quid charity bet says we don't.

How anyone can say that we are going down after two league games is a fucking mystery to me as well...

 

...that said, there are a few things that are worrying me with regards to the start we have made and the general apathy around our support.

 

I've had a season ticket for the 14 seasons, prior to that I was young, free and single and spent most of my money following us home and away. Of the past 13 pre-seasons I have renewed my season ticket, and that of my son(s) without even thinking about it, even Maurice Malpas never put me off, however this pre-season was the 1st time that I really felt like packing it in. This was partly because my oldest son is now at the age, where he can go himself if he wants to, while my 10 year old, can take it or leave it, as hes more interested in playing the game than watching it...but partly because there were massive swathes of last season where I felt as though I was entertained less, than I have ever been before. At times, in fact the vast majority of the time, it was excrutiating to watch, we had almost no alternative plan to our 'blood and thunder' way of playing nor did we ever venture away from our 5-3-2 formation...the fact that we made two cup finals, through these tactics put a real shine on the season  and lifted it from one of complete and utter mediocrity to something that was almost (if we had turned up at either final, or didnt face Celtic twice) special.

 

I was also prepared to put up with the shite fare, that we endured last season as I understood that the manager was helping the club recover from the mess that he has inherited, that he was having to recruit almost a whole new team and that if I were him, the 1st thing I would have done would have been to make us difficult to beat. However, I'd have expected him to build on that, give us something exciting over the course of the transfer window...a marquee signing if you like (rather than umpteen average players being recruited), and while the media team are obviously excellent at their jobs, and while Hartley and Aldred were brilliant for us last season, the thought of getting excited about a big bruising centre-half signing up again (on loan may I add), doesnt really do it for me

 

This pre-season I watched the transfer dealings, with more interest than usual, and I seen nothing from them that encouraged me that we were going to be more pleasing on the eye this season, and only purchased my season books because my son and a few others shamed me into it really. I haven't been to a single friendly, league cup match, never made the Accies game and I'm unlikely to be at Livi or the Rangers game...mainly due to holidays and kids football, so while I haven't witnessed us this season in the flesh as of yet, by reports I'm seeing on here, from friends and in the media, we have been torture to watch, while not managing to take anything from two league matches, that should have given us something...with Hibs amount of games, I'd have expected us to be a lot fresher than they were, while losing at home to Hamilton is a rid neck. 

 

The squad is bloated all over the park in my opinion, we have 5 strikers ahead of James Scott, we have at least 6 central midfielders ahead of David Turnbull, we have 6 players ahead of Maguire at centre half,  4 ahead of Livingstone at left wing-back and 2 goalkeepers ahead of Rohan Ferguson...now I'm not suggesting that these 4 players should be playing, as I've not seen enough of any of them to form a real, evaluated opinion but these lads have to have something to aim for, otherwise what is the point of them being there? David Turnbull must be sitting wondering how the hell he will make a career for himself, when he has Grimshaw, Campbell, McHugh, Bigirimana, Rose, Rodriguez and even Cadden in front of him, not to mention Tanner when he is back fit. I know we have tried the quality over quantity in the past and it threw up some issues when we had injuries, but there has to be a happy medium that can be found rather than running with so many players, who are all very much of a muchness in terms of quality, although I'd exempt Campbell from that criticism.

 

With the squad size the way it is, its not a surprise to see no one really knows what the best starting 11 is.

 

The signing of Connor Sammon just screamed out that we were struggling for ideas, and signalled to me that we are in for another season of utter tedium, except that I highly doubt that we will have the excitement of the cup runs (purely because of the laws of probability, would suggest we've had our chance at that for a wee while) to take the edge out of the boredom. At a younger age, I was definitely more loyal to our cause and would sit through seasons of abject shite, like we witnessed under Kampman, McLeish, Butcher and Malpas, knowing full well that I'd be back next week, or next season but as I get older I want to be entertained, I want to come away from a match thinking I got value for money, but the way this is shaping up currently its going to be a long, drawn out pile of pish. I don't think we'll be relegated, as there are teams around the league who will be worse than us over the course of the season, namely Accies and Livingston, but after what was a good financial season for the Club last season, I'd have expected a wee bit more than just pure survival in this one. 

[sbcmfc]

9 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

The squad is bloated all over the park in my opinion, we have 5 strikers ahead of James Scott, we have at least 6 central midfielders ahead of David Turnbull, we have 6 players ahead of Maguire at centre half,  4 ahead of Livingstone at left wing-back and 2 goalkeepers ahead of Rohan Ferguson...now I'm not suggesting that these 4 players should be playing, as I've not seen enough of any of them to form a real, evaluated opinion but these lads have to have something to aim for, otherwise what is the point of them being there?

 

 I know we have tried the quality over quantity in the past and it threw up some issues when we had injuries, but there has to be a happy medium that can be found rather than running with so many players, who are all very much of a muchness in terms of quality, although I'd exempt Campbell from that criticism.

Yeah, I was quite excited going Into the summer and with ATS being one of, if not the first signing it started well, we needed a proper left back and think he could finally replace Stevie Hammell, but since them we just seem to have added bodies rather than strengthening the team. We’ve not really offloaded anyone but just added umpteen centre halves and centre mids who we don’t really appear to need.

[weeyin]

ATS, Johnson, and Rodriguez all have the potential to be good signings. The new boy, Mbulu, could be a good one too (although not convinced we needed to re-sign Aldred at the same time given we had already picked up Donnelly).

Whether you are a fan of Frear or not, there's no doubt he was one of the better performers in the League Cup group - and has been rewarded with zero starts in the league.

Combine that with guys like Bigi, and Turnbull (and Dunne, Bowman and Tanner when they are fit again), and we have the potential to be more creative, play a bit more football. 

I'm not suggesting we suddenly turn into a silky smooth tiki-taka side, but there is plenty of room in the middle ground to be something other than a long ball team. It's all about balance. There was no point, for example, to bring in Sammon for high punts when it's obvious he scores 90% of his goals from passes on the deck. 

It's unclear whether Robinson just doesn't know what his best team is, or is scared to change his approach, but if you're the opposition, it's a lot easier to set up to defend long, high balls than it is to dfend against players taking you on, and good through balls.

I knew we were in for a long afternoon against Accies after all the pre-match buildup on twitter etc. with the emphasis on "battles" and "fights" and "steel" etc. that plays right into their hands. Accies are poor this season, and the way to beat them is with a bit of football - just like the last game of last season. There will be games against Hearts, and Rangers etc. where we will need extra dig, but even then, we'll still need to create chances.

I hope we take a step forward before the Livi game, because we struggled to adapt to the plastic pitch at Clyde in a game that was crying out for someone to put a foot on the ball and start playing some short, crisp passes. The Livi pitch is, by all accounts, worse than Clyde, and long balls don't work on plastic at the best of times - the ball just bounces too high and runs away from players. 

But I'm not panicking at this stage. I think it's going to be a rocky start, but I don't think relegation isn't in my thoughts yet.

[MelvinBragg]

2 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Fifty quid charity bet says we don't.

If I had £50 to spare, I'd be all over this. Or more likely, checking the bookies' odds..

1 hour ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

How anyone can say that we are going down after two league games is a fucking mystery to me as well...

I can see no one in that squad that will either lead the team or do something special to win us a game, that's why I can't see us getting the ten wins that would see us having a shot of staying up. 

Transfer window isn't closed but signing a leader or a matchwinner would be difficult and further add to the bloated squad you described...