2019-20 Rebuild

[David]

4 hours ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

I've no doubt that he'll be gone this Summer...hes far too good a talent for bigger clubs than us, not to take a punt on

Yeah, but there's taking a punt on someone, like Rangers are doing with Hastie to the tune of between £350,000-£400,000 from what we're told, and investing millions in a player who's 18 years old and played half a season of top flight Scottish football.

I don't know if the sides capable of paying the money we'd want will be willing to part with a couple of million based on what he's done thus far, as impressive as it is. I know they have money to burn down south, but that doesn't mean they just chuck it around for the sake of it.

If he moves on it'll be next summer I think, after a solid season where he's not only continued his fine form, but actually improved upon it.

[Yorkyred]

37 minutes ago, David said:

Yeah, but there's taking a punt on someone, like Rangers are doing with Hastie to the tune of between £350,000-£400,000 from what we're told, and investing millions in a player who's 18 years old and played half a season of top flight Scottish football.

I don't know if the sides capable of paying the money we'd want will be willing to part with a couple of million based on what he's done thus far, as impressive as it is. I know they have money to burn down south, but that doesn't mean they just chuck it around for the sake of it.

If he moves on it'll be next summer I think, after a solid season where he's not only continued his fine form, but actually improved upon it.

Give him another season and I think he will have clubs down south fighting to sign him. There is no way he should be going for any less than a club record.

[David]

59 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

Give him another season and I think he will have clubs down south fighting to sign him. There is no way he should be going for any less than a club record.

Exactly. I think we'll get another season out of him, with an offer or two maybe dropping in January depending on circumstances.

[stuwell]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

Give him another season and I think he will have clubs down south fighting to sign him. There is no way he should be going for any less than a club record.

To me that’s the ideal scenario for both the club and player

[supermarv]

Lad we’ve signed looks very good on paper, and I’m orettt chuffed to see us sign a left back who can compete. Don’t like to see that though his old club jumping onto our twitter basically saying he’s pish, hopefully we can rejuvenate his career. Motherwell > Cambridge, so better team mates = better player!

[MelvinBragg]

36 minutes ago, supermarv said:

Lad we’ve signed looks very good on paper, and I’m orettt chuffed to see us sign a left back who can compete. Don’t like to see that though his old club jumping onto our twitter basically saying he’s pish, hopefully we can rejuvenate his career. Motherwell > Cambridge, so better team mates = better player!

You have to hope it's similar to what happened with Chris Porter or more recently Charles Dunne where we were told the player wasn't up to much by fans of their previous team. Sometimes it just doesn't work for a player at a certain team for whatever reason. John Sutton at Hearts? Stevie May at Aberdeen? 

Let's just hope it's third time lucky in terms of left backs for Robinson...

[Neilwell86]

15 hours ago, David said:

Yeah, but there's taking a punt on someone, like Rangers are doing with Hastie to the tune of between £350,000-£400,000 from what we're told, and investing millions in a player who's 18 years old and played half a season of top flight Scottish football.

I don't know if the sides capable of paying the money we'd want will be willing to part with a couple of million based on what he's done thus far, as impressive as it is. I know they have money to burn down south, but that doesn't mean they just chuck it around for the sake of it.

If he moves on it'll be next summer I think, after a solid season where he's not only continued his fine form, but actually improved upon it.

Derby county paid 8m for Marytn Waghorn, Liverpool paid 35m for Alex Oxlade chamberlain with 6 months to run on his contract. Premiership clubs are forking out millions into guys that play Fifa on the play station, a 3 million price tag isn't going to put them off.

[sbcmfc]

26 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

Derby county paid 8m for Marytn Waghorn, 

What does that make Lawrence Shankland worth?

(the comparison being scoring in the Scottish championship)

[David]

45 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

Derby county paid 8m for Marytn Waghorn, Liverpool paid 35m for Alex Oxlade chamberlain with 6 months to run on his contract.

Derby paid £5 million for Waghorn, which goes up to £7.5 million if they win promotion, and they paid that money off the back of him scoring 16 goals in the English Championship for Ipswich Town the season before.

Oxlade-Chamberlain had spent five seasons at Arsenal and played over 100 games for them.

I don't really see where either player can be used as a comparison to an 18 year old who's played around 25 first team games for Motherwell?

52 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

Premiership clubs are forking out millions into guys that play Fifa on the play station, a 3 million price tag isn't going to put them off.

My point was that I don't see an English club chucking down £3 million on a player who's not really done much at this point, even if what he has done has been impressive. I have absolutely no doubt he's being monitored, and if he was available under freedom of contract then that would be a different story, but regardless of us thinking that £3 million isn't a lot of money down south, it's still a sizeable investment for someone who they'll consider relatively unproven as yet.

I've seen it mentioned that we should be looking for John McGinn-type money, which is where the £3 million talk is coming from. 

McGinn had played almost 200 games over his time at St Mirren and Hibs before he signed for Villa, and had already played for and captained both the under 19 & under 21 Scotland sides and also made his senior international debut.

I have no doubt Turnbull will eventually go for big money, but my feeling is that it'll be next summer at the earliest, when he's hopefully played well over 50 games for us and has performed consistently over an entire season, and having made his debut for the under-21 Scotland side last month he'll hopefully have another few caps at that level and maybe even higher under his belt by then.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by the FIFA on Playstation stuff though, but that could just be me showing my age  

[sbcmfc]

1 minute ago, David said:

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by the FIFA on Playstation stuff though, but that could just be me showing my age  

E-sports

Clubs are “signing” top e-sports players to represent them playing FIFA on games consoles.

[David]

Just now, sbcmfc said:

E-sports

Clubs are “signing” top e-sports players to represent them playing FIFA on games consoles.

Ah, okay. I don't have a clue about all that, I just play FIFA whenever I get permission from the wife!

[Neilwell86]

13 minutes ago, David said:

Derby paid £5 million for Waghorn, which goes up to £7.5 million if they win promotion, and they paid that money off the back of him scoring 16 goals in the English Championship for Ipswich Town the season before.

Oxlade-Chamberlain had spent five seasons at Arsenal and played over 100 games for them.

I don't really see where either player can be used as a comparison to an 18 year old who's played around 25 first team games for Motherwell?

My point was that I don't see an English club chucking down £3 million on a player who's not really done much at this point, even if what he has done has been impressive. I have absolutely no doubt he's being monitored, and if he was available under freedom of contract then that would be a different story, but regardless of us thinking that £3 million isn't a lot of money down south, it's still a sizeable investment for someone who they'll consider relatively unproven as yet.

I've seen it mentioned that we should be looking for John McGinn-type money, which is where the £3 million talk is coming from. 

McGinn had played almost 200 games over his time at St Mirren and Hibs before he signed for Villa, and had already played for and captained both the under 19 & under 21 Scotland sides and also made his senior international debut.

I have no doubt Turnbull will eventually go for big money, but my feeling is that it'll be next summer at the earliest, when he's hopefully played well over 50 games for us and has performed consistently over an entire season, and having made his debut for the under-21 Scotland side last month he'll hopefully have another few caps at that level and maybe even higher under his belt by then.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by the FIFA on Playstation stuff though, but that could just be me showing my age  

I understand what you are saying, maybe a better example might be Billy Gilmour who Chelsea paid maybe 500,000 for at the age of 16? The point I am making is that if Clubs in the premier league and top end championship clubs see him as being the real deal, as many predict that he is, then they will gladly spent 3 million on him. That sort of money is pocket change for these kind of clubs. Joao Felix of Benfica, who is the same age as Turnbull and played roughly the same amount of league games and scored more or less the same amount of goals (13 to Turnbulls 12)  is being touted at 75 million. if he was with either side of the old firm you can guarantee that price tag would be 10 million plus, you could guarantee it.

[ONeils4oyarder]

I honestly don't see Turnbull being at Fir Park at the end of the next transfer window...unless someone loans him back to us

[supermarv]

1 minute ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

I honestly don't see Turnbull being at Fir Park at the end of the next transfer window...unless someone loans him back to us

Anything to watch him again for another season. Although still young I genuinely believe he could slot into the national team.

[David]

38 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

I understand what you are saying, maybe a better example might be Billy Gilmour who Chelsea paid maybe 500,000 for at the age of 16?

Yeah, that may be a good comparison finance-wise, as I think if we were willing to accept around £500,000 we've have offers on the table right now for Turnbull. Hopefully we aren't though.

39 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

The point I am making is that if Clubs in the premier league and top end championship clubs see him as being the real deal, as many predict that he is, then they will gladly spent 3 million on him. That sort of money is pocket change for these kind of clubs. Joao Felix of Benfica, who is the same age as Turnbull and played roughly the same amount of league games and scored more or less the same amount of goals (13 to Turnbulls 12)  is being touted at 75 million. if he was with either side of the old firm you can guarantee that price tag would be 10 million plus, you could guarantee it.

Again, it comes down to what the player has managed to accomplish to that point.

Turnbull is playing for a mid-level Scottish premiership club and has done very well for half a season thus far. Someone like Joao Felix is playing for a huge club like Benfica, which means he's obviously very good to even get a game for them, not to mention that he's doing the business against sides like Eintracht Frankfurt in the Europa League. 

I rate Turnbull highly, but I wouldn't say he's comparable to someone like Felix yet. He's doing extremely well at the level he's at, but I do think that for a club to spend in the region of £2 million or even £3 million he's going to have to do what he's done already on a consistent basis over a whole season.

The whole "if he was playing for Celtic or Rangers" thing is kind of like the Benfica scenario to an extent, as he'd obviously need to be very good to break into their side and become a regular (we've seen our own fans claim that Jake Hastie, who would walk into our side all things being even, won't even get a game for Rangers next season), and if he's a regular for Celtic or Rangers he's likely playing on the European stage as well, which is another level altogether.

As it is, he's playing for us, and he's doing really well. If he continues to do really well next season I can see us getting maybe £1.5 million or £2 million for him, with add-ons that could push that higher depending on how he does.

14 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

I honestly don't see Turnbull being at Fir Park at the end of the next transfer window...unless someone loans him back to us

I hope you're wrong, because if that's the case it probably means we've accepted a relatively low offer for him.

[Wellfan1984]

Ryan Gauld signed for Sporting for £3m and he was half the player Turnbull is. If Teams wanted him they will pay what they think we will accept.  

At the moment he is the most technically gifted player in Scotland be it Scottish or foreign at any age group, never mind "youngster".  

 

[Goggles & Flippers]

Surprising to see that nobody has factored in an offer coming in for him thats below the clubs valuation but theres a healthy wage being dangled. There's a lot to be said for that unsettling or asking to be transferred. 

As I pointed out before, a lot of the same chat on here Turnbull is getting is akin to what Cadden got in the aftermath of the playoff's.  7 figure plus transfer fees and alike. Here we are a few uyears down the line and combined with injury and being played in a different role it is felt he stagnated. I wonder if he and his advisors think taking the money and running over getting a full season under the belt and going for more the following summer would be a best idea with hindsight.

[David]

4 minutes ago, Wellfan1984 said:

Ryan Gauld signed for Sporting for £3m and he was half the player Turnbull is. If Teams wanted him they will pay what they think we will accept.

Ryan Gauld had played two seasons for Dundee United when he left them, so he'd shown what he was capable of on a consistent basis over a season, which is something Turnbull hasn't done as of yet. I have no doubt he will, and see him being a regular player for us next season.

As for Gauld being "half the player" Turnbull is, I'm not sure that's the case. We're looking at things through claret & amber tinted glasses for sure, but he's absolutely one of the best talents in the Scottish game at the moment.

7 minutes ago, Wellfan1984 said:

At the moment he is the most technically gifted player in Scotland be it Scottish or foreign at any age group, never mind "youngster". 

Again, we're speaking as Motherwell fans, so such talk is only natural. I think he has incredible potential, but we've yet to see him truly show us what he's capable of over an entire season. Kids can see dips in form, can go through so-called purple patches and so on.

7 minutes ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

As I pointed out before, a lot of the same chat on here Turnbull is getting is akin to what Cadden got in the aftermath of the playoff's.  7 figure plus transfer fees and alike. Here we are a few uyears down the line and combined with injury and being played in a different role it is felt he stagnated. I wonder if he and his advisors think taking the money and running over getting a full season under the belt and going for more the following summer would be a best idea with hindsight.

A very good point, fans can and do get carried away when they see a talented kid coming through the ranks, especially if he's one of their own.

Truth is, he's only 18, he's only really been playing regular for half a season. I don't get the way that fans think sometimes. We yearn for a youngster to come through and do really well, then as soon as he does we're virtually selling him off at the first available opportunity.

There's going to be a lot of teams monitoring him next season I think, and we may even see a few offers this summer, with sides trying to test our resolve. I don't think we'll see anything close to the £3 million some are mentioning, and doubt we'll see offers of £2 million this summer, so if we do sell him it'll be disappointing as it'll likely be for a lot less than we'd get next summer after he's got a season under his belt.

Time will tell I guess.

[Goggles & Flippers]

I think back to the Cup Final last year and Bigi comes on in the second half, puts his foot on the ball and half this forum think he's the answer to our prayers. Robinson castigated for not playing him from the start, etc. For that reason some should appreciate one swallow does not make a summer and while it would be nice to see one of our own get that move that propels him and the clubs financial security I think we need to chill out at times.

If I was a scout I'd pay particular attention to player of the year awards, being voted top by your teammates counts for a lot as they see that person week out in training and in games. The fact he had a clean sweep at 18 is remarkable and looks like he'll get the SPFL young player of the year. Means we will get bids this summer.

Flow/Robinson probably have a number they have in their mind. Robinson will know that whatever we get, a portion will go to paying off legacy debts so he will have to replace him with a fraction of what we receive. So if that is say £2m and there's a £1.5m on the table with a health sell on clause but 10x salary jump Turnbull may find himself asking why not and looking to Hastie who had a run of half a dozen good games and is probably on more money already.

[David]

3 minutes ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

So if that is say £2m and there's a £1.5m on the table with a health sell on clause but 10x salary jump Turnbull may find himself asking why not and looking to Hastie who had a run of half a dozen good games and is probably on more money already.

In fairness though, Turnbull could have went down the route Hastie went down if he'd wanted to. He could have easily held out until the end of the season and seen what was on offer. The fact that he didn't suggests to me that he's looking for another season here at least.

[Goggles & Flippers]

I don't agree, Hastie's involvement was explosive where as Turnbull has been consistent and building from one week to another. If before he put pen to paper, Turnbull scored in almost every match then its quite feasible his head could have been turned and we'd be rueing his imminent departure.

[David]

17 minutes ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

I don't agree, Hastie's involvement was explosive where as Turnbull has been consistent and building from one week to another. If before he put pen to paper, Turnbull scored in almost every match then its quite feasible his head could have been turned and we'd be rueing his imminent departure.

It doesn't matter how explosive he was, Turnbull could have chosen to wait until the summer to see what else was on offer, just like Hastie did. The club would have to have kept a deal on the table for him in case he wanted it as part of the conditions to get a developmental fee if he had moved on, just as they did with Hastie.

He chose not to go down that route, and signed a two and a half year deal with us, which is a bit of a signal of intent I think. He could easily have said "nah, I want a one year deal" which would have allowed him to push for a move this summer or even in January, but he didn't. 

I really do believe that all the signs point to him being here next season and potentially moving on next summer.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Of course it matter, you seriously trying to convey that if Hastie returned from Alloa and continued his form from there which by all accounts was average kicked on and managed to get a few starts with us and the odd goal Rangers would parted with 400k for him?

[David]

3 minutes ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

Of course it matter, you seriously trying to convey that if Hastie returned from Alloa and continued his form from there which by all accounts was average kicked on and managed to get a few starts with us and the odd goal Rangers would parted with 400k for him?

No, you said that if a club comes in this summer with an offer of a salary ten times what he's getting in his new deal with us "Turnbull may find himself asking why not and looking to Hastie who had a run of half a dozen good games and is probably on more money already."

My point is that if Turnbull was interested in seeing who was going to come in for him this summer he could have put the deal offered by the club on the backburner and left it sitting on the table as a possible option, just like Hastie did, and waited for a while to see who came in and offered him what.

He chose not to do that, and rather than look on the deal offered by Motherwell as a nice safety net that allows him to explore further options he decided to put pen to paper reasonably early on a two and a half year deal.

That tells you that he has the intention of plying his trade here for another year or so, surely? otherwise why would he sign the deal so early? 

[scoojy]

Perhaps Turnbull just has the confidence, as Faddy did, that he will get his move no matter how long his contract has to run therefore getting the club the biggest fee possible.