Shotts Well Fan Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, couttsy said: Having had time to calm down a bit since last night and reflect on where we’re at after the first 3 games against teams at our level I think the goalkeeper and 1st choice defence will be fine this season, it clearly further forward where our issues lay. Gillespie has had a tough start to the season with a couple of mistakes (not terrible mistakes right enough) but let’s not forget he make a couple of decent saves last night that people seem to be forgetting and was man of the match at Livi in my opinion, far to early to talk about dropping him, manager needs to show some loyalty. Defence - Would be very surprised if a defence of Tait, Carroll, Gallagher and Dunne wasn’t good enough to keep us up. Midfield - Very concerning in my opinion, Campbell works hard and gets the ball but badly needs ball players alongside him to be effective. Polworth is a tough one, plays 3 or 4 nice passes a game but just doesn’t do enough in 90 mins. Donnelly is a trier but as I feared I just don’t think he’s good enough with the ball at his feet to play that position in our league. Sooner DT gets back the better, but unless Sloth is going to appear and be a presence in that midfield then we need a holding/passing midfield player. A big part of the reason we were watching Dunne shell passes over the midfields head last night was that none of them were good enough/confident enough to come and take it off him (in fairness to Polworth I think he did it once or twice last night) Forwards - Again, very concerning. There’s a player in Scott, as we’ve seen on occasions already, however it’s too much to ask at his age to play up there on his own against the experience/aggressive central defenders (like Berra). Should be making appearances off the bench or going out on loan until Xmas in my opinion. With Long and Cole it’s maybe a little early to tell give their game time so far, however neither looks to be the answer if we are going to persist with one central striker. The 3 wide players, Hylton, Seedorf and Ilic the early signs are not great. Hylton was truly awful last night and the other two have offered little more during their time on the pitch, however they need to be given a little time to adjust to our league and their new surroundings. I think we need to tweak the formation for Accies Away, playing with two under performing wide players would be very risky... I think we need a presence in midfield who can hold the ball and play passes, then make himself available again and build play and finally I think we need a strapping centre forward who can hold the ball up on his own and score goals. Can’t see us getting either on our budget but we can hope........ Really good post and sums up my view of the team. Only thing I would disagree with you is that Seedorf was even worse than Hylton last night and how he stayed on for the whole 90 mins is beyond belief. He was like a lost schoolboy player. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Think I have just about calmed down after last nights inept performance. During the group stages, I did have some concerns about how the defence would stand up against a higher level of team. Now we are finding out. Without going over every player's performance last night, my lasting thought is if Lennon is getting stick for shoehorning players into position, then why is Robinson getting away with it so easily... Jake Carroll gets suspended but rather than play and develop Livingstone, he moves Tait back over that side. Hearts even played a 17-year-old at left-back last night so why didn't he give Livingstone that chance? The interview withPolworth during the week, states he's used to playing a No. 10 role, more like Turnbull was playing last season, but has been asked to play deeper Long, Cole, Hylton and Seedorf all confirmed as can play anywhere across the front three, yet no out and out striker among them. I felt sorry for James Scott getting subbed last night, he might still be a little naive but he was the only one willing to try and close the ball down up the front. Their keeper definitely got an easier time when the ball was at his feet in the second half. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 I know it’s still early in the season but a few of our team from last night look out of their depth at this level. If they don’t start to show potential soon we could be in trouble this season. I’m also struggling to see where our much needed goals are going to come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Lobey_Dosser said: 5/6 players that either can’t get fit, adjust to pace of the game or cope with training. Sloth will be one on them. It fear that the clue to his pace might be in his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, Well-Made said: Without going over every player's performance last night, my lasting thought is if Lennon is getting stick for shoehorning players into position, then why is Robinson getting away with it so easily... I'm not sure that he is. There has been plenty of criticism of him moving Tait to the left hand side and re-shuffling the rest of the team. The big difference is that Neil Lennon has bought a £7 million? (I'm not that clued up on Celtic's transfer dealings) left back, that is available to him, that he does not trust enough to play. Robinson has a first choice left back (who's value is not even one tenth of this) who was not available last night. He then has to look to a young player like Livingstone, who is largely untested at this level or play Tait out of position. Lennon played another multi-million pound player in that position on Tuesday night albeit out of position. Lennon has luxuries that Robinson can only dream of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 7 hours ago, fizoxy said: Apparently Gallagher played the game with a 40 degree temperature which, although not too clever, makes me like him more. It was mentioned in Commentary that Gallagher had been ill all week with a temp of 38°. Funny how , when Robbo is under pressure, it becomes a 40° Temperature to try prove something? If anything it (playing with a 40° temp) proves the Manager is a clueless fuckwit as that wouldve been pretty dangerous and irresponsible on his part! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellwell91 Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, DEWELL said: Totally agree with this is Craig Tanner also a ghost why is he not ready. Seedorf and Hylton can leave now. Illic is not going to do neither is Cole. Robinson has signed about 6 forwards who are all crap. Heard through the grapevine Tanner is finished at this level Will be released at end of the month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Last night was much more indicative to where we are than any other games I've seen this season (wasnt at livi). And I fear that we have yet again flooded our squad with below average players. Hylton and seedorf looked excellent against lower league opposition but out there depth last night. Seedorf was up against a 16 year old left back - should have been running at him trying to scare the shit out of him from the off but simply didnt, and may as well not have played the first half. He did improve in the second, however. Cole - I am yet to see literally anything from. Surprised robinson has not tried long out wide and scott central, rather than opting for one or the other and swapping them at half time. Based on the performances last night, Scott should have been far from the first hooked. Tait and gillespie arent looking themselves at all. Tait is playing like he's aged about 10 years over the summer.... I do trust Robinson will get it right, but its beginning to feel like the same mistakes as last year regarding transfers - quantity and not quality. Hope I'm wrong. Gutting to be out a cup this early yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Anyone else find it interesting/strange that Hartley wasn't even on the bench last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman1991 Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Just now, MelvinBragg said: Anyone else find it interesting/strange that Hartley wasn't even on the bench last night? Not if you had seen him at Dumbarton . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Scott doesn't need to go out on loan, he needs the players around him to show up. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said: Anyone else find it interesting/strange that Hartley wasn't even on the bench last night? I was just listening to Robinson's interview and thinking the same thing. If he chose to play Gallagher with a 40 C temp (which btw is totally irresponable if true), then Hartley must be injured or no longer part of the team plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, steelman1991 said: Not if you had seen him at Dumbarton . Oh, he was dreadful against Annan as well and should have been run out of the club this summer. But to have our highest earner (or certainly one of them) not even make the 18? Doesn't say much about how resources are being used. Suspect Sloth will also be on a decent wage and not contributing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyred Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Scott doesn't need to go out on loan, he needs the players around him to show up. Na, he needs to go out, always has. He’s not at the stage of his development to be starting games at the top level. I think the only reason some people want him starting is because he’s come through the ranks, playing him risks him going backwards with his confidence taking a real knock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, mfc88 said: I do trust Robinson will get it right, but its beginning to feel like the same mistakes as last year regarding transfers - quantity and not quality. Hope I'm wrong. Gutting to be out a cup this early yet again. Robinson's problem is that he has one tactical formula and doesn't change it. First of all it makes it very easy to counter once other teams are on to it. Secondly when he needs to change it and the chips are down, he doesn't take on the responsibility of a 'good' manager, ie, put himself on the line. He's been pretty harsh in this public statement today on the players but this stood out a mile "Players have a habit of making you look stupid, but that's the level of player we're able to recruit, and we have to educate them. That has to happen sooner rather than later or they won't play in the team." Sooner or later? What about the next match? We need to find something that works at this level and you don't do that without making changes when it doesn't work. If Robinson can't see that Dunne is useless in a 4-3-3, that Donnelly can't do what Gorrin did, that the absence of Turnbull makes the current formation debatable, that you need quality wingers to play this way you'd have to worry big time. And so we go back to the first sentence of this post. Robinson lets himself down with his lack of adaptability, he needs to have more than one tactical idea and he needs to be able to change it when it doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Scott doesn't need to go out on loan, he needs the players around him to show up. That's the problem we have, Scott is nowhere near ready for the 1st team, if we had a Moult or a Higdon etc up front with him to keep him right then yes play him and he would develop. But having the likes of Hylton, Seedorf and Cole who from what I have seen so far, look well out of their depth at SPL level, around him is useless , he will never develop. We needed to sign at least one experienced striker, to help some of the other signings but we never did so it looks like a long haul till January and the next transfer window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: That's the problem we have, Scott is nowhere near ready for the 1st team, if we had a Moult or a Higdon etc up front with him to keep him right then yes play him and he would develop. But having the likes of Hylton, Seedorf and Cole who from what I have seen so far, look well out of their depth at SPL level, around him is useless , he will never develop. We needed to sign at least one experienced striker, to help some of the other signings but we never did so it looks like a long haul till January and the next transfer window. As I said if Hylton, Seedorf etc are out of their depth you can play whoever you like in a 4-3-3 and they will be standing up on their own all match. If you want to help Scott, or whoever is up front, you put another striker up front and change the formation, not change the striker and keep the guys that can't hack it on the wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Lobey_Dosser said: Regarding Tait, I like the guy but playing at left back is no excuse for constantly pulling out of 50/50s. From what I’ve seen, he was dreadful at right back against QoS and Livi. I thought Tait was poor for long spells in the second half of last season - and that was when the team was doing well. He's a guy that gets a pass from the support for some reason. Maybe he's got far too comfortable playing every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, Yorkyred said: Na, he needs to go out, always has. He’s not at the stage of his development to be starting games at the top level. I think the only reason some people want him starting is because he’s come through the ranks, playing him risks him going backwards with his confidence taking a real knock. In an ideal world,we should have been looking to loan scott out for the season,a drop down into the championship where he could play every week and develop,would have been my choice but as things stand,hes currently imo our best striker,which doesn't say a lot about our other options we have and that's in no way having a go at scott,who i really like and think has all the attributes to be a really good player.our forward line is a real concern,especially the wide men,who can't seem to beat a man and there's there ilic,who to me looks like a left wing back,that's been getting played as a right winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, wellwell91 said: Heard through the grapevine Tanner is finished at this level Will be released at end of the month I thought all along that would be the outcome. Damn shame a decent player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Watching the game just now after being at The Cure last night. Seedorf is absolutely brutal, it's embarrassing that we are starting this level of player. Every game is going to look the same this season as teams are aware we have no quality or threat in the final third and will let us beat ourselves. The team look extremely flat and it reminds me of McCall's final few months when the poor signings seemed to destroy the morale of the rest of the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprawell Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Also interesting to hear the manager basically throw his players to the wolves for the second game running. After Celtic he named them outright. Robbo needs to take responsibility here,. He trains and coaches them and picks the team. Calling out players isn't the answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_said Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Robinson at his best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 I am sorry to have to say it but we are now beginning to see and feel the effects of being a fan-owned club which quite simply does not have a large enough fan base to justify it. We are now quite literally being run on a shoestring. The desperately poor level of player that has been signed by the manager during the past close season are a symptom of this. He is being forced to gamble with players who, although they may have showed a modicum of skill/ability, lack the basic attributes of what is required of modern-day professional footballers in the hope that he and his coaching staff can bring them up to a decent level. While this has worked in some cases previously, there have been more sows ears than silk purses and I'm afraid that the majority of the latest crop of close season signings fall into the former category. It is I'm afraid going to be a long hard slog of a season and one in which I feel we are ill-equipped for the inevitable relegation dogfight that we will end up in with St.Mirren and the Accies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 31 minutes ago, El Grew said: I am sorry to have to say it but we are now beginning to see and feel the effects of being a fan-owned club which quite simply does not have a large enough fan base to justify it. We are now quite literally being run on a shoestring. The desperately poor level of player that has been signed by the manager during the past close season are a symptom of this. He is being forced to gamble with players who, although they may have showed a modicum of skill/ability, lack the basic attributes of what is required of modern-day professional footballers in the hope that he and his coaching staff can bring them up to a decent level. While this has worked in some cases previously, there have been more sows ears than silk purses and I'm afraid that the majority of the latest crop of close season signings fall into the former category. It is I'm afraid going to be a long hard slog of a season and one in which I feel we are ill-equipped for the inevitable relegation dogfight that we will end up in with St.Mirren and the Accies. Is it to do with being fan owned though? I was sceptical at the beginning of the fan ownership, but under the right leadership I'm beginning to think it can work for us. IMO it's the areas we are spending the budget. We have a very fruitful youth system yet have signed 10 or 11 players this summer, and how many of them are better than macguire, semple, livingstone, Cornelius etc? So far I'll say 2, 3 maybe with the jury out on the rest. Why are we not signing 5 or 6 quality starters and bulking the squad out with the youths? I had the same complaints this time last year too. Or, genuine question, am I just being naive in my thinking? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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