Livingston vs Motherwell 03/08/2019

[Brazilian]

44 minutes ago, livivoice said:

Don't know if it was my imagination but I thought I saw Sloth warming up before the game. If so I take it he failed a late fitness test and Cole/ Semple brought in.

 

Can anybody clarifify ?

when did you think you seen him? as the team sheets were published almost 80 minutes prior to kick off

 

[gee]

If Sloth isn’t suitable for the Donnelly position then we need to strengthen there. 

Donnelly and McGuire being our only two options for a crucial role in the team isn’t enough. 

[couttsy]

I worry after seeing yesterdays game that unless we get a fit Turnbull and/or Tanner back soon our midfield is nowhere near good enough to be thinking about anything other that just staying up.......it’s early days but Polworth looks weak and disappears from games (all be it he plays 2/3 eye catching passes a game) and Donnelly, whilst trying hard most of the time is simply not good enough with the ball at his feet to be the constructive influence we need in that position. Really hope we’re still in the market for a holding midfielder that can pass the ball, otherwise we’re in for a season of watching Dunne hit a lot of long diagonals straight out the pitch!

[Yorkyred]

Too early to tell for me, i’m not judging anything after one game on that pitch. I liked the look of Sloth when he came on last week and feel he will slot in to midfield when fully fit. We will know more about the Polworth/ Donnelly combination after a few games although next weeks game is already looking like damage limitation and Hamilton will be yet another sh#t fest and a pitch not much better than the Livingston’s one. I think one of better signings in the summer is Carroll, just shows how you can’t always rely on feedback from supporters of a previous club. But as others have said we need to sign a central striker, Scott needs to go out on loan which will be of far more benefit to his development, Long does not look the right fit to me either having seen him in a few games now. 

[Lobey_Dosser]

Despite the relatively flat performance and lack of quality in possession, I remain optimistic for the season ahead. Our fortunes however are likely to depend on finding the right mix in midfield. Livi were much better in that department yesterday. 

At the moment, we don’t have someone that can knit the play together. Presumably Sloth was identified for this role but we’ve yet to see much of him...

[Andy_P]

1 hour ago, livivoice said:

Don't know if it was my imagination but I thought I saw Sloth warming up before the game. If so I take it he failed a late fitness test and Cole/ Semple brought in.

 

Can anybody clarifify ?

[ropy]

I was in early at the QotS game and the whole squad was on the pitch going through various sessions, could just be that

[Kmac]

I’d like to see Sloth coming in for polworth next week. He’s got a little bit of presence about him, which we will badly lack Against a strong Celtic midfield. 

I thought yesterday’s match would’ve suited a long or cole type pace upfront with long balls and a turning defense critical on a shite pitch -no harm to Scott - whereas next week, I can see Scott being more suited.

id also like to see seedorf come in for illic next week. Firstly, to me, he seems like a guy who favors bigger occasions and secondly because we will need outballs much more frequently. 

 If we have money for a good quality striker, fantastic, preferably before next week. If we have money for two players, a defensive midfielder would be a welcome edition also.

[Kmcalpin]

11 hours ago, CoF said:

Don't know if my view is skewed having seen two awful leg breaks playing amateur on astroturf, but today gave me the fear.

Seemed like every physical dual left someone on the deck with some sort of injury. Not sure if upping the physicality on these pitches is a good idea. 

In other words we have to have players capable of winning 50/50 challenges against teams like Livingston and Accies on their plastic pitches.  Of course we have to have a mix of players also to retain possession and create.  If we can't compete there then we have to rely on hoofball but we don't have the players for that.  It all gets back to Robbo's earning the right to play.  If we can't compete in central midfield then that puts the defence under a lot of pressure and leaves the striker isolated.  If the opposition choose to play physically on these pitchess how do we compete or avoid getting involved or pickig up injuries?

[star sail]

4 hours ago, Yodo said:

Both of you must have sun stroke " this team could be great " aye right 

LOL. It must be difficult being a supporter when your team give you no joy, no hope, no sense of pride, no entertainment...…… Basically no pleasure whatsoever.

First game of the proper season so whilst we can't define it as pre-season, the first day often throws up unusual results and rusty performances. Add the pitch into this equation and this game was always likely to be a bit of a lottery. 

I have mixed views about the result yesterday and can see the arguments on both sides. I think it is naive to think that the pitch did not affect the performance but at the same time it can not be the only reason for a mediocre performance yesterday. The strong league cup performances have now been put well and truly into context. A Premier league side were always going to show up more of the cracks in our newly formed squad so it is only natural that the early optimism has been tempered somewhat.

The biggest concern for me is, as Ya Bezzer! pointed out, that their midfield looks stronger than ours. Livingston are my tip for the drop this season so that they appear to have a stronger midfield would be a concern. I wonder how much the uncertainty regarding Turnbull's future has upset the planning in that particular area of the pitch. Let's hope that Sloth provides a bit of strength in that area when he gains full fitness. I remember a similar situation last year with Gorrin, who did not feature early season but became a mainstay of the team as the season progressed. 

No hiding place unfortunately with Celtic and Hearts coming to Firpark over the next few weeks. I don't think we are going to get a true sense of the merits of this squad until September.

A draw away from home in the first game of the season is no bad thing. Livingston was a touch place to go last season so it's a decent result even if the performance has left us with more questions than answers.

[livivoice]

1 hour ago, Brazilian said:

when did you think you seen him? as the team sheets were published almost 80 minutes prior to kick off

 

Was pretty early and it looked ( to my weakening eyes) that he was being separately put through his paces by the physio. 

[Lobey_Dosser]

21 minutes ago, livivoice said:

Was pretty early and it looked ( to my weakening eyes) that he was being separately put through his paces by the physio. 

Similar happened in Dumfries. Although he had Johnson, Livingstone and Devine for company that day. 

[joewarkfanclub]

Thought we started well enough yesterday but by 20 minutes in Livvy had worked us out and grew into the game. By half time their midfield were bossing it and we had Gillespie to thank for going in level. 

Thought the changes we made did improve things a little but the performance was still disjointed and we continued to struggle to break them down.

For me we still had the best chance of the game when Tait came in onto his left foot but for some inexplicable reason chose to hit it with his right. That should have been buried and would have made it a very different game.

Still lots of questions remaining regarding the quality of our squad. But just as we shouldnt have been getting over excited by our league cup performances, no one should be be getting over agitated by yesterday.

[I'll*no*be*back]

On 8/3/2019 at 12:13 PM, BigCDawg said:

Best either in the centre itself or trying the one at side of the ground. There is one at top called Lime Kiln but they will only serve you a pint if you order food

Not true the Lime Kiln served us pints without any food on Saturday, wished we stayed in the boozer.

[supermarv]

Thought Carroll had an excellent game and is looking better and better every time. Hylton when he actually got the ball always beat the man but wasn’t effective enough. Seedorf came on to make a positive effect but seemed pretty nervous until the fans got him going. Liked the look of Cole in his 10 minute cameo, strong, powerful and pacey. 

[steelman1991]

10 hours ago, I'll*no*be*back said:

Not true the Lime Kiln served us pints without any food on Saturday, wished we stayed in the boozer.

Wonder if they quickly realised how much money they were losing with such a policy - it was in play last season.

[MelvinBragg]

I was working all day yesterday so my first chance to put some serious thoughts down on the game. 

For me, it was a poor game. Maybe I'm wrong but I recall looking at my watch 25 minutes in and thinking there hadn't even been a shot at goal from either side. The pitch is a huge factor. When you see the black bits of rubber bouncing up during the warm up, you know what's coming. It's never going to happen but I'd love to see away fans boycott games at Livi, Accies and Killie in an attempt to get rid of these pitches.

I thought initially we tried to take the pitch out of the equation in an attacking sense  We seemed to feel that Ilic would have the beating of McMillan physically so seemed to be trying direct balls towards him at every opportunity. Sadly didn't work. Ref constantly pulling him up for fouls and it was the right move to take him off before he was sent off. Livi were smart in targeting Donnelly in the air by dropping their tall striker deep to win headers against him. While quite strong, he's not the tallest. 

In general,  the performance reminded me of previous seasons when the pitch seemed to get in our players heads affecting our performance.  Having said that, the back four for the most part did their job, albeit on a couple of occasions Gillespie bailed them out. Carroll, I was unsure about after Annan and Morton but actually thought he did quite well on Saturday. Seedorf did some good things when he came on but still don't know if he's disciplined enough positionally  to start. Cole deserves a shot as a central striker in my opinion. 

On a positive, as others have said, it's the kind of game I've seen us lose in the past.

Sorry to end on a negative. We had a great support through and at the game were fine. But on the train through from Bellshill some of the younger team (don't know if it was the Well Bois or just hangers on) were a bit out of order language wise in their song choices for a train with young families on it. And the less said about the Celtic Boys Club chants at Livingston South station while waiting for the train back the better...

 

[Yodo]

The manager showed on Saturday that he has no plan B and can't change the way we play as the game goes on .He will need to up his game on Saturday or we will take a doing. .Btw I hope I'm wrong and we get at least a point and if I we do I will be the first on here to say well done 

[weeyin]

We got a draw this time in game we lost in the equivalent away fixture last season.

The last thing we need to do is build a team to counter Livi on an aberration of a pitch that we play on once or twice a season. As I said earlier, one of my biggest complaints about the Betfred structure is teams have to focus their preseason on winning 4 games against lower league opposition with no time to fully prepare for Premiership opponents. I can't imagine any of the new players have faced a team or a playing surface like this before.

We need to get the current squad up to speed and playing to a style that suits them first. Then it can be tweaked and improved. There is no way that will happen in one game. 

If we bring in players with the aim to beat Livi one game a season, that would as stupid as it would be painful to watch. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MelvinBragg said:

For me, it was a poor game. Maybe I'm wrong but I recall looking at my watch 25 minutes in and thinking there hadn't even been a shot at goal from either side. The pitch is a huge factor. When you see the black bits of rubber bouncing up during the warm up, you know what's coming. It's never going to happen but I'd love to see away fans boycott games at Livi, Accies and Killie in an attempt to get rid of these pitches.

Agree. I'm not really big on blaming pitches and complaining about the plastic ones, but Saturday was grim like. The ball just wouldn't move on it, you could see the guys like Ilic and Hylton hesitating and keeping possession rather than driving with it because they weren't convinced it would move. The Killie one looked much better on the telly yesterday (it is brand new so you'd hope so), but the Livi one needed a good watering before and at half-time, down to the heat as much anything. 

That said, we didn't sort ourselves out to play on it, so that's on us as well. Thought the back 5 were pretty good, some start of season jitters aside. Carroll has turned out vastly better than any of us imagined, and Dunne and Gallagher look a good pairing. Mental how Gillespie is so good given he spent half the season in the stand last year.

Beyond them... ups and downs. Long and Cole might have something, Scott still looks to raw, Hylton sound when he finally got the ball, Ilic looked like the pace took him by surprise. Polworth Campbell and Donnelly... battled. Seedorf needed to stretch the play that bit more, continually dropping closer to Tait is not what was needed, but hard to be critical this early. 

All in all, I think just about everyone identified that we could use a recognised centre-forward, which Robinson also knows. Fingers Crossed.

[Yodo]

3 minutes ago, weeyin said:

We got a draw this time in game we lost in the equivalent away fixture last season.

The last thing we need to do is build a team to counter Livi on an aberration of a pitch that we play on once or twice a season. As I said earlier, one of my biggest complaints about the Betfred structure is teams have to focus their preseason on winning 4 games against lower league opposition with no time to fully prepare for Premiership opponents. I can't imagine any of the new players have faced a team or a playing surface like this before.

We need to get the current squad up to speed and playing to a style that suits them first. Then it can be tweaked and improved. There is no way that will happen in one game. 

If we bring in players with the aim to beat Livi one game a season, that would as stupid as it would be painful to watch. 

Totally agree to build a team to beat Livi would be madness but our subs were like for like when it cried out for  a change of style .Reading between the lines I think your warning us there maybe heavy pain before any gain 

[weeyin]

1 hour ago, Yodo said:

Totally agree to build a team to beat Livi would be madness but our subs were like for like when it cried out for  a change of style .Reading between the lines I think your warning us there maybe heavy pain before any gain 

Not at all. I'm just saying that we likely haven't finished our business in the transfer market yet, and we beat Livi twice last season after we changed to our more expansive style.

(The fact that we improved on last season's defeat at the same ground is actually a good thing).

[Yorkyred]

It’s one league game on a dreadful pitch against a team with one of the best home records in the league last season, take a look at the teams they beat on it including us. Let’s actually see how things pan out over the next half dozen games before we write people off.

[Kmcalpin]

9 hours ago, weeyin said:

We got a draw this time in game we lost in the equivalent away fixture last season.

The last thing we need to do is build a team to counter Livi on an aberration of a pitch that we play on once or twice a season.

On your first point ...fully agree.

As for building a team to counter Livi...no.  You'll also find Accies play the same way as might Ross County.  I'm not suggesting for a minute that a highly focused desire to beat teams like Livingston and Accies should shape our team building and transfer business.  You also have teams like Aberdeen and Hearts who have never been known for being shrinking violets. What I am suggesting is that a need to compete against all the teams in the Premiership should shape our squad building. Whilst we want to maintain consistency of team selection, I'm a great fan of horses for courses.   Although we have a limited budget we should aim to have a well balanced squad capable of playing competitively against all other teams in the league.   There are occasions when you may want, by default, to play open entertaining football but there are also occasions on which you might want to play more defensively or aggressively.  The  most successful teams can play virtually any way they need to. I don't doubt for a minute, that should they be minded to, top English Premier League clubs could come to Fir Park (probably beneath them right enough), to win by kicking hell out of us, knowing full well we couldn't match their hardman tactics. In short a squad should be built, in a balanced way, to try to compete with a range of different opponents.    

[weeyin]

Ross County play on grass, so no comparison there. Also, from what I saw in the league cup groups, they play a bit of football.

Accies pitch is bad, but not quite as bad as Livi's. They also don't play as direct as Livi - especially since Brian Rice took over.

I agree teams need to adapt to some extent, but as it was the first SPFL game many of our team had played they literally had no idea what they were going to be facing. So nothing really to adapt to/from. Although it could be argued that we did adapt better in the second half.  

When we are in the unfortunate position of having to play there again, I'm sure last weekend's experience will benefit everyone involved. I also fully expect every team to struggle there as much as they did last season. It's the most anti "anti-football" I can ever remember seeing in any Scottish league in the 50 odd years I've been watching. As much as I enjoy going to watch games at any level, I wouldn't pay money to watch a match at Livi on my travels home even if it was the only game available.