2019/2020 Game 2: Celtic (H) August 10th 12pm Kick off

[steelboy]

Gallagher still gave away a needless freekick that led to a goal. When Hartley did that 12 months ago he was rightly criticised.

 

[BAZ]

Thought we played really well in the first half, unfortunately their second goal seemed to take the feet from us and our confidence evaporated. Defensively we don't seem to be able cover ourselves with glory.  Up front we are very lightweight, too easily robbed of the ball. However as I have said before I still think we have the makings of a team and am willing to give them time. It's a big step up for a lot of the newcomers and hope they will take it to  heart and try to build themselves up, a lot of naivety was obvious against an experienced Celtic team.

[Happy Dosser]

11 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Gallagher still gave away a needless freekick that led to a goal. When Hartley did that 12 months ago he was rightly criticised.

 

Yes, cling to that and hug it ecstatically, in the dark watches of your night. I'm sure it will make you feel so much better.

FWIW, at the time I thought it was a harsh free kick, as was his booking for a 50-50 tackle but in general the refereeing was just as expected today.

If you can't see his defensive and linking abilities then perhaps your doors of perception are all rusted up. 

[Yorkyred]

26 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Gallagher still gave away a needless freekick that led to a goal. When Hartley did that 12 months ago he was rightly criticised.

 

Gallagher has made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes, and i’m pretty sure a few will make sure he knows it. Personally I think he’s an outstanding signing given our budget, for me the best of the summer signings by some way.

[well_said]

You're spot on about the referee today, you would be hard pushed to find a motherwell fan who thought he would referee the match fairly. It's what we have come to expect against them.  And they think the referees are against them.

[steelboy]

4 minutes ago, Happy Dosser said:

Yes, cling to that and hug it ecstatically, in the dark watches of your night. I'm sure it will make you feel so much better.

FWIW, at the time I thought it was a harsh free kick, as was his booking for a 50-50 tackle but in general the refereeing was just as expected today.

If you can't see his defensive and linking abilities then perhaps your doors of perception are all rusted up.  

The booking was a joke.

The free kick today was a shocker and he made a couple of howlers at Livi with his passing as well.

I'd rather wait until someone puts in a solid 90 minutes to start hailing them as a great signing.

[Happy Dosser]

"The free kick ("he gave away" presumably?) today was a shocker." A shocker? Really?

From where I was in the POD I thought it was a 50-50 so we obviously have different views on it.

I predict that, late or soon, Gallagher will be a POTS contender.

Feel free to save that for next year. You're welcome! 

[grizzlyg]

Great first 20 mins but poor after that.  All our forward players poor and I know he is a great guy but how long is Robbo going to persevere with Dunne, you can't just keep picking a guy cos he is fast, defending and passing brutal. Also I know he is a pain and the Sellik fans songbook a disgrace but some of comments aimed at Griffiths disgusting.  I was at a funeral on Thursday  of an ex work colleague who had mental health issues and committed suicide. Some folk want to look at Bigger picture before they open their gob 

[Motherwellfc1991]

The result today was more or less predictable and isn’t going to be the one that makes or breaks our season but Livi last week is the kind of match and result that will. The sad and alarming thing for me is that Robbo seems hell bent on a pedestrianised, defensive midfield 3 with absolutely no pace and no guile - the 3 players he picked in there last week were bossed at Livi and had no creativity so no surprise the same happened today.  I actually felt sorry for them. They all tried hard and stuck at it but the balance and mix isn’t right and neither is the mix around about them . 

2-1 down at half time and very much in the match despite the aforentioned issues and a lack of cover in the wide areas so rather than see the problem and fix it he fucks a straight swap in with winger who can’t defend to replace a winger who can’t defend.

Thats my issue with Robbo once he has  a system he’s no idea how to change it during the game .

Polworth looks a player as is Gallagher and possibly Hylton - the rest have a look to prove in the weeks and months ahead. As I said at the start of the post today’s result won’t detemine the season but no plan b and no actual style of play will . If you play with two wingers then get the ball to them.

Special mention today to 6 of strathclydes finest who managed to completely shit themselves outside the ground today and actually deal with a group of Celtic fans causing a bit of hassle with verbals and pisisng  in the middle of the road. All 6 shat themselves and did fuck about it and then turned on me for questioning them . Jobsworth arseholes who take money for nothing and think they are above th law . 

 

[gaz7]

43 minutes ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

The result today was more or less predictable and isn’t going to be the one that makes or breaks our season but Livi last week is the kind of match and result that will. The sad and alarming thing for me is that Robbo seems hell bent on a pedestrianised, defensive midfield 3 with absolutely no pace and no guile - the 3 players he picked in there last week were bossed at Livi and had no creativity so no surprise the same happened today.  I actually felt sorry for them. They all tried hard and stuck at it but the balance and mix isn’t right and neither is the mix around about them . 

2-1 down at half time and very much in the match despite the aforentioned issues and a lack of cover in the wide areas so rather than see the problem and fix it he fucks a straight swap in with winger who can’t defend to replace a winger who can’t defend.

Thats my issue with Robbo once he has  a system he’s no idea how to change it during the game .

Polworth looks a player as is Gallagher and possibly Hylton - the rest have a look to prove in the weeks and months ahead. As I said at the start of the post today’s result won’t detemine the season but no plan b and no actual style of play will . If you play with two wingers then get the ball to them.

Special mention today to 6 of strathclydes finest who managed to completely shit themselves outside the ground today and actually deal with a group of Celtic fans causing a bit of hassle with verbals and pisisng  in the middle of the road. All 6 shat themselves and did fuck about it and then turned on me for questioning them . Jobsworth arseholes who take money for nothing and think they are above th law . 

 

i agree with your view our midfield cannot and will not be able to deal with celtic midfield but to blame the manager for it is not right. donnelly is not a good enough footballer and whilst i like polworth he will struggle against good teams . gorrin is a massive loss and turnbull is obvious but we have no others.

[Motherwellfc1991]

Only the manager can pick the midfield 3 - not the fans and not the players . He is also the one who has signed the players he did in the summer . He must have known we were short in there and he is the one that is trying to shoe horn a 3rd pick 2nd rate centre half come right back in there 

[FirParkCornerExile]

6 hours ago, GazzyB said:

I thought we were quite good today, surprised by the negativity.

We were shocking defensively and zero threat up front

[Ross]

The groundsman put up more of a fight than the wingers today


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[Welldaft Mk1]

Answer me this Q 

Who oh why do people rise to the bait from Yodo and Steelboy. 

Week in week out it is the same narrative. 

It is not that they don’t occasionally raise valid points..well Steelboy anyway, but by Christ it is doomsday pish every single game even those we win. 

Unless we get an Arab sheikh we will be a team that battles to avoid relegation and probably finishes mid table or thereabouts. We will get gubbed off Celtic more often than not because they have one player that costs 2x our annual turnover. 

Please don’t give them the attention they do  not deserve 

 

[gaz7]

1 hour ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

Only the manager can pick the midfield 3 - not the fans and not the players . He is also the one who has signed the players he did in the summer . He must have known we were short in there and he is the one that is trying to shoe horn a 3rd pick 2nd rate centre half come right back in there 

yes we would all love modric but who do you suggest within our budget and available. i personally dont know. Stephen mcginn at st mirren? i like him  anytime i see him but cant think of many others.

[Andy_P]

A few posts suggesting we should have been more defensive or cautious.  In much the same way as I thought the exclusion, and ultimate sale, of Danny Johnson inhibited our ability to switch formations in the second half of last season, so too does our recruitment in the summer.  We really do seem to have set ourselves up to play this style whether it's against a Third Division side or the current Champions. 

That is going to be beneficial but at times it is really going to make life difficult for ourselves when you aren't 100% on it. 

For the first half an hour or so I'd say we pretty much were.  The football we attempted to play was very easy on the eye.  They were hemmed in and being passed around for long spells.  But when we lost that edge around the half-hour mark the dominance we had enjoyed ebbed away.

The timings of the loss of the first two goals were pretty critical. How would both teams have reacted had we been able to settle on that lead?  We'd looked fairly assured in possession. Could we have eased the tempo a shade and looked to retain possession rather than going all guns blazing and some of the team seemingly burning themselves out very early on? And to go in behind at the break was as frustrating as it was unmerited.

I don't know that our front three were just as  ineffective as some are suggesting. They are certainly vital to that formation working effectively and they all played their part in a very good start to the game.  But Hylton, Long and Seedorf looked fucked after about half an hour, which allied to Celtic gaining momentum as the game wore on saw us tail off considerably.  I can understand it to a certain extent. Scottish football is easy to mock,and many south of the border do, but the intensity of some fixtures such as todays I suspect won't readily be replicated in the reserve leagues of English Premiership or non-league so readily. Being fit is one thing. Being sufficiently match fit to handle the intensity of the game here is something a bit different.

So whilst the second half collapse is a concern, the individual mistakes that suggest poor decision making there were still a few positives to take. If being ran into the ground speeds up that process for two or three of them being "ready" and we can replicate and extend that opening half an hour for more and more of each game I would like to think we'll see more good results, and games for that matter, than bad.

 

 

[Goggles & Flippers]

God, many have short memories on here. After our early dealings and the first few players who came in, the chat on here was "more midfielders?" now it's "awww they're all pish".

We've just played the champions who despite the general feeling in all Scottish football that appointing Lennon was a step back for them, they are still a juggernaut. In every position they have a better, faster, more well rounded player except for a few exceptions, Bain was equally at error as Gillespie today and Boli is doing well to hold down a starting place with them.

If Long's softish penalty claim was upheld then it becomes a different match. Ironically only a few yards away from where McGregor conned a last minute spot kick 2 years ago to high 5's from his team mates. But I've always said I don't think a referee goes out to be biased but deep down in their subconscious they know they will run into 20x more OF fans per week than those of everyone else.

Simple truth is Robinson still doesn't know his strongest starting 11. But in his defence professional footballers should be hitting the ground running and I do roll my eyes when I hear or read comments about it takes time to gel and all that nonsense.

Celtic had 5 shots on target and 5 goals, that's clinical. So far we played the team with the 4th best record at home and champions on our own turf and have 1 point. Armed with those facts many wouldn't and hindsight maybe a point isn't so bad. What is bad is other than 30 minutes or so there's been 2.5 hours of malaise and misfiring.

Many will not extend a chronic start till Christmas then a purple patch beyond like last season. Issues need addressed with planning, tactics both before a game and during, adaptation and players taking responsibility for their actions and shortcomings.

[The African]

Well that wasn’t really unexpected. We will get fitter and better organised so no need to push the panic button just yet. Also proves that a series of European qualifiers are better build up for the season than the League Cup group stages. Again, hardly a surprise.

[Shaka]

For me, we shot our load after 30 mins and were done. Very dissappointed in Gillespie, and Donnelly is a quandry! He is banging the goals in but is a fucking atrocious defensive midfielder

 

Poor show going Long for Scott. I wonder how much of that was to "protect" him after his superb goal at Celtic Park last season? Long worked hard and Cole had flashes, but we dont look blessed with natural goalscoring attackers.

Couldnt understand the Seedorf/Ilic sub either?! 1 defensively poor winger for another? Surely you fill in with a more defensive player to add cover? And that is Robbo in a nutshell, utterly clueless when plan A starts to unravel

[Kmcalpin]

9 hours ago, Andy_P said:

A few posts suggesting we should have been more defensive or cautious.  In much the same way as I thought the exclusion, and ultimate sale, of Danny Johnson inhibited our ability to switch formations in the second half of last season, so too does our recruitment in the summer.  We really do seem to have set ourselves up to play this style whether it's against a Third Division side or the current Champions. 

That is going to be beneficial but at times it is really going to make life difficult for ourselves when you aren't 100% on it.

I didn't make the game yesterday and so can't comment in detail.  However, as someone posted on P & B perhaps we don't have the players to implement the manager's current system 4-3-3 system?  Maybe the new lads will settle in and get fully match fit and that will change.  Robbo has said that most of the forward players he's brought in "can play anywhere across the front 3" but I'm not sure exactly what that means.  Jack of all trades master of none?  We are short of an out and out striker and thats been apparent for some time.  We also seem to be short of a solid defensive midfielder.  Hopefully both deficiencies will be addressed before the window slams shut.  They do need to be. 

Like others I was surprised at the line up, playing with 2 wingers, leaving the middle struggling.  Did Robbo know beforehand that Hylton and Seedorf weren't 100% fit?  If so, that was quite a risk to take.  The bottom line is that he got the line up and tactics wrong on the day.   I'm not saying he was responsible for  the defeat, as I think we would have lost anyway, given  individual errors and the fact that Celtic are a far better team.  An interesting comment from Spiderpig above.  Many fans were and are calling for us to ditch a more cautious style of football for more entertaining expansive football and I get that but sometimes I think you have to take the middle road.  Maybe a significant number of our support went home happy yesterday having been entertained by 2 attacking teams but I'm sure an equally large number would have been p****d off at losing 5 goals.     

[Stu92]

6 hours ago, Shaka said:

Couldnt understand the Seedorf/Ilic sub either?! 1 defensively poor winger for another? Surely you fill in with a more defensive player to add cover? And that is Robbo in a nutshell, utterly clueless when plan A starts to unravel

I think it was more to do with Seedorf offering nothing going forward, thought he was very poor and was a bit of a one trick pony. At that stage the game was 2-1 and we had already shown we could get at them, would hope any substitutions made at that point were to try and get us back into the game rather than sacrifice some attacking intent for a more defensive player.

[Welldaft Mk1]

I was impressed by new additions wingers pre season in particular Hylton. 

I suspect that had more to do with calibration of opposition. So far v 2 top flight sides they have been poor and generally unfit. I still think Hylton will be a decent addition. Seedorf and Ilic jury out. Seedorf was very poor yesterday and to be fair Ilic was not that much better. 

I thought we started well and deservedly went in front. Then we started making some very basic mistakes and Celtic score 5 goals from 5 shots on target. The difference is they have very clinical players middle to front. 

I though Polworth looked fairly assured and his passing was pleasing on the eye. Donnelly is scoring for fun. Gallagher made a basic mistake but overall got pass marks. 

Big game on Friday night v Hearts. Win that and we can get up and running. Lose and well Accies away becomes huge even this early in the season. 

 

[gee]

Polworth and Gallagher impressed at times and I think Campbell has taken his game up a level recently. 

Surprised to see Long start and hope we see Cole or Scott up top on Friday instead. 

Seedorf couldn’t run after 35 minutes, shocking that he started if that’s his fitness. 

Throughout the season I can see us needing to sacrifice one winger to have Polworth/Tanner/Turnbull in a more advanced position and still keeping 3 in the centre. 

Carson and Hartley will get their chance to come back in as well at some point, hopefully they do more than Grimshaw did yesterday to keep the place. 

[ropy]

Sloth?

[David]

I think a little bit of perspective is needed here. It's worth remembering that there is less of a resource gulf between Celtic and Paris Saint-Germain than there is between Celtic and us.

Let that sink in for a second. 

When Celtic are being absolutely handled to the tune of a 5-0 loss at home, and a 7-1 loss away to PSG our media (quite rightly) highlight the huge financial gulf between Celtic and clubs like PSG. Well, the gulf between Celtic and us is even greater.

Fans asking why our players didn't measure up against their lot? The answer is right in front of you. There's levels to this game, and we're operating a shitload of levels below what Celtic are, it's as simple as that.

Our season isn't defined by these games. If we're losing handily to the sides around us in the table, and our midfield look gash against them, then fair enough, there's room for discussion.

It's early doors so far, the team is still bedding in. Our next five games see us play Hearts twice, Accies, Hibs and Ross County. After those games we'll have more to judge our new players on.

Yesterday was a free hit, nothing more. Sad as that may sound, it's the truth. Sometimes we nick something from those games, which is amazing considering everything I've mentioned above. But the normal outcome will be a bit of a hammering. Same as it is for Celtic when they face a PSG or a Barcelona.