2019'20 Game 10: Rangers (A)

[Benson]

5 minutes ago, Lan_Lad said:

Yes it's all total pish isn't. The only reason no one but them or their other half have won the league in more than 3 decades is simply because everybody else is shiting it. Forget budgets, means absolutely nothing in Scotland apparently but strangely is the key deciding factor everywhere else in the world.

You need to get your superior footballing knowledge out there. I want to see a team operating on freebies winning the Champions League. 

Bang on the money. Some folk need a huge reality check. 

[Spiderpig]

10 minutes ago, Lan_Lad said:

Yes it's all total pish isn't. The only reason no one but them or their other half have won the league in more than 3 decades is simply because everybody else is shiting it. Forget budgets, means absolutely nothing in Scotland apparently but strangely is the key deciding factor everywhere else in the world.

You need to get your superior footballing knowledge out there. I want to see a team operating on freebies winning the Champions League. 

Wind your neck in, as I said in my post we have constantly beaten teams over the years with vastly bigger budgets than our, ie celtic, Aberdeen,  hearts, hibs, but we crap ourselves every time we play the blue ugly sister, even when they had crap teams before they went bust we never had a league win, so money is an excuse, as by your logic we should never beat any of the teams above either but we do.

 

 

[Lan_Lad]

9 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

by your logic we should never beat any of the teams above either but we do.

 

 

Show me and everyone else where I said that? You wont because I didn't say it. YOU simply made that up which is bizarre since I and everyone else can clearly see that.

On occasion it will happen as Livingston  recently demonstrated but the majority of the time like today it wont happen which is exactly why they dominate the league. Getting that logic? Exactly why they will both finish a minimum 20+ points ahead of third place. Getting that logic?.

Show me where any teams in Scotland are constantly beating them. As far as I can see Rangers in particular are being beaten by no one but Celtic. 

By your logic other teams should be winning the league but never do because they're apparently all shiting it which by coincidence happens all over European football. The money teams keep winning because everyone else is shiting it. Dazzling footballing logic. Get it out there and be a world famous footballing genius.

[joewarkfanclub]

I thought it was a very disciplined performance. We just didnt quite have enough quality to hurt them on the counter without committing too many bodies forward. You can pick holes in the performance, such as Gillespies punch for the first goal, Bevis losing his wrestling match with Helander for the 2nd, Long passing up 2 very good chances. However, we limited a team that have handed out skelpings to a number of teams this season, to very few clear cut chances, whilst offering some threat going forwards ourselves. Play to those standards every week we will win more than we lose....

[texanwellfan]

33 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I thought it was a very disciplined performance. We just didnt quite have enough quality to hurt them on the counter without committing too many bodies forward. You can pick holes in the performance, such as Gillespies punch for the first goal, Bevis losing his wrestling match with Helander for the 2nd, Long passing up 2 very good chances. However, we limited a team that have handed out skelpings to a number of teams this season, to very few clear cut chances, whilst offering some threat going forwards ourselves. Play to those standards every week we will win more than we lose....

For me the frustrating thing is the nature of the mistakes we have made in giving up goals. We do the hard work and raise the performance but then we do schoolboy stuff to give up goals that cost us points.  The players just need to work on eliminating the silly mistakes and we’ll save a good few points. Can’t Make up my mind about Long. Maybe one of those players that needs a run of games. I think we can beat Killie and Livingstone and get third place back. It’s Celtic and Rangers, then a big gap to the rest of the teams with not a whole lot between them. 

[Lan_Lad]

39 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

For me the frustrating thing is the nature of the mistakes we have made in giving up goals. We do the hard work and raise the performance but then we do schoolboy stuff to give up goals that cost us points.  The players just need to work on eliminating the silly mistakes and we’ll save a good few points. Can’t Make up my mind about Long. Maybe one of those players that needs a run of games. I think we can beat Killie and Livingstone and get third place back. It’s Celtic and Rangers, then a big gap to the rest of the teams with not a whole lot between them. 

That's pretty much the way I see it. The OF are in a league of their own and since they can only take 2 of the 4 Euro spots we in effect want them to turn over our competition for those spots. Celtic beating the sheep is a result for us since they and probably Killie are going to be the competition for those 2 spots.

Outside the top 2 everybody else is operating in much the same market so they're all beatable. The sheep and the likes of Hearts etc may have something of a financial advantage but it's nothing like the vast chasm between the OF and the rest. They too are shopping in that same freebie store we are and that gets you a rough equivalence across the board.

I can't recall the OF ever being so far ahead of everybody else but neither can I recall everybody else being so relatively closely matched. 

[Blakey]

6 hours ago, Lan_Lad said:

Show me and everyone else where I said that? You wont because I didn't say it. YOU simply made that up which is bizarre since I and everyone else can clearly see that.

On occasion it will happen as Livingston  recently demonstrated but the majority of the time like today it wont happen which is exactly why they dominate the league. Getting that logic? Exactly why they will both finish a minimum 20+ points ahead of third place. Getting that logic?.

Show me where any teams in Scotland are constantly beating them. As far as I can see Rangers in particular are being beaten by no one but Celtic. 

By your logic other teams should be winning the league but never do because they're apparently all shiting it which by coincidence happens all over European football. The money teams keep winning because everyone else is shiting it. Dazzling footballing logic. Get it out there and be a world famous footballing genius.

That is just a cop out I'm afraid.

As far as I am aware and happy to be corrected, we have not beaten Rangers since 2002 ish in the league? Yet other sides have no problem beating them. Kilmarnock beat them twice last season and didn't lose a league match to them, Aberdeen beat them three times, Hamilton Accies went to Ibrox and won a couple of years ago, as have Saint Johnstone. 

Granted over the course of a season these teams won't win the league but how come sides like these manage to beat Rangers/take points off them on occasion, but we NEVER do, with the exception of the odd draw here and there.

We shit the bed against them just about every time, especially at Ibrox and then give ourselves pats on the back for a brave display against a team that's budget is bigger than ours whilst other sides are going there and taking points from them. Are you getting that?

[steelboy]

8 hours ago, CoF said:

I see. So when we're next looking for a manager you'll be hoping we land John Hughes, Danny Lennon, Jim McIntyre or Kenny Shiels. Got it. 

Aye someone who can win a trophy. 

Definitely someone who won't bottle two cup finals. 

[Yorkyred]

4 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

For me the frustrating thing is the nature of the mistakes we have made in giving up goals. We do the hard work and raise the performance but then we do schoolboy stuff to give up goals that cost us points.  The players just need to work on eliminating the silly mistakes and we’ll save a good few points. Can’t Make up my mind about Long. Maybe one of those players that needs a run of games. I think we can beat Killie and Livingstone and get third place back. It’s Celtic and Rangers, then a big gap to the rest of the teams with not a whole lot between them. 

We will always have mistakes in the team simply because we play a mixture of youngsters and lower league players, that’s not going to end regardless of the work done on the training ground. All that really matters is making the most of what we have and the league position come the end of the season.

[Yorkyred]

6 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Aye someone who can win a trophy. 

Definitely someone who won't bottle two cup finals. 

So it’s simply a case of appointing a manager that can win two cup finals against Celtic, should not be too difficult.

[GrahamH]

13 hours ago, Lan_Lad said:

Yes indeed. You're getting the picture now and you didn't even know you were doing it.  Comparing a team with £20 million rated Alfredo Morelos to bring in off the bench with Motherwell who have freebie Chris Long. That's realism.

There’s only one team that rates Morelos as a £20 million player. That’s why he’s still there despite them being desperate to sell him.

[Lan_Lad]

2 hours ago, Blakey said:

That is just a cop out I'm afraid.

As far as I am aware and happy to be corrected, we have not beaten Rangers since 2002 ish in the league? Yet other sides have no problem beating them. Kilmarnock beat them twice last season and didn't lose a league match to them, Aberdeen beat them three times, Hamilton Accies went to Ibrox and won a couple of years ago, as have Saint Johnstone. 

Granted over the course of a season these teams won't win the league but how come sides like these manage to beat Rangers/take points off them on occasion, but we NEVER do, with the exception of the odd draw here and there.

We shit the bed against them just about every time, especially at Ibrox and then give ourselves pats on the back for a brave display against a team that's budget is bigger than ours whilst other sides are going there and taking points from them. Are you getting that?

Are you getting this? Your 'shit the bed' rant is mindless in terms of professional football. What are you even talking about? Do you even know because I don't?

And another thing you don't appear to get. Aberdeen are historically the third best team in the country with a far superior record to that of of Motherwell and were the last team outside the OF to win the title. And are you getting this.

They hadn't won at Ibrox in over a quarter of a century until the last few years when Rangers weren't what they have historically been .  Shit the bed whatever that's supposed to mean? Yet somehow you think Motherwell should be beating them at Ibrox.

And you think other sides have no problem beating them? Which alternate reality are you existing in? The reality is that Kilmarnock and everybody else do exactly what Motherwell do and simply get luckier. They park the bus then manage to survive a virtual siege to grab something on the break and Motherwell just haven't been so lucky.

Hibs hammered 6-1. Hamilton 5-0 and Aberdeen 5-0 yet somehow Motherwell should be beating them. Do you grasp that even Celtic went there and sat off them but had the quality to catch them on the break? Seems you don't grasp that and what you're doing amounts to slating a young team who are currently having their best season in years. 

[Lan_Lad]

20 minutes ago, GrahamH said:

There’s only one team that rates Morelos as a £20 million player. That’s why he’s still there despite them being desperate to sell him.

Seriously where do you get this drivel from? Just pull it out of thin air? Presumably so because they're actually desperate to hold on to him and why wouldn't they be. Who wouldn't want to keep a 30 goal a season striker who is the key to their Euro success.

Video primed to start at the key point. 
 

 

[Blakey]

4 minutes ago, Lan_Lad said:

Are you getting this? Your 'shit the bed' rant is mindless in terms of professional football. What are you even talking about? Do you even know because I don't?

And another thing you don't appear to get. Aberdeen are historically the third best team in the country with a far superior record to that of of Motherwell and were the last team outside the OF to win the title. And are you getting this.

They hadn't won at Ibrox in over a quarter of a century until the last few years when Rangers weren't what they have historically been .  Shit the bed whatever that's supposed to mean? Yet somehow you think Motherwell should be beating them at Ibrox.

And you think other sides have no problem beating them? Which alternate reality are you existing in? The reality is that Kilmarnock and everybody else do exactly what Motherwell do and simply get luckier. They park the bus then manage to survive a virtual siege to grab something on the break and Motherwell just haven't been so lucky.

Hibs hammered 6-1. Hamilton 5-0 and Aberdeen 5-0 yet somehow Motherwell should be beating them. Do you grasp that even Celtic went there and sat off them but had the quality to catch them on the break? Seems you don't grasp that and what you're doing amounts to slating a young team who are currently having their best season in years. 

We shit the bed because we made no attempt to try and win the game yesterday. Our sole tactic in the second half was to sit deep, waste time and hope for a point.

We have done this for nearly twenty years against rangers and that's why we haven't beaten them in a league match in that time. If you don't want to use Aberdeen as an example given their historical success (which is irrelevant to this discussion btw) fine, remove from from the equation. In the same timescale I am referring to, Kilmarnock, Accies, St.Johnstone, Dundee Utd, Hibs, Hearts, Inverness have all went to Ibrox and picked up three points and some on more than one occasion. We haven't even mustered a home league win against them in that time FFS!

Don't give me this nonsense about luck. You are not telling me it's just down to pure bad luck on our part that we fold every time we play Rangers when other clubs of a similar standing to us are able to beat them. I don't expect us to go to Ibrox and won every time, but you'd think we'd manage it now and again but we don't. 

We have not won at Ibrox in the league since the 1990s, that is a truly awful stat.

 

[Blakey]

15 hours ago, steelboy said:

This is an attitude that says who cares if we never win a trophy or qualify for Europe again. 

Our second half performance has nothing to do with their budget. 

Correct. I only wish more of our fans thought along those lines instead of trying to excuse performances like yesterday's second half with "Rangers budget is bigger than ours".

The difference in budget didn't cause our team and manager to approach the second half with the sole tactic of trying to hang on for a point.

The difference in budget didn't cause us to drop deeper and deeper til we were defending on our own 18 yard line.

And the difference in budget didn't cause us to concede a goal due to our goalkeeper making a howler and then concede another soft one from a cross later in the game.

I'm fed up with the attitude from some of our fans that says we basically have no chance of beating them because of their budget. That as I said is a cop out and you're just basically lying to yourself in order to give yourself some consolation.

[Yodo]

Just watched the highlights don't know why there was nobody on the post at the winning goal we had plenty players in the box ,quite sure a player on the post would have kept it out .Long had two good chances and upfront is where we are really lacking a finisher difference between finishing top 6 or not .The worry for me is Rangers even with them playing on Thursday looked a lot fitter at the end than us we were blowing out our arses or is that down to the budget as well 

[postiejim]

I was actually pleased that we kept the score respectable, our league form against Rangers is an embarrassment.  They're in a lot of ways bigger and better than us I know.

[Pepper]

You need a lot of things to go in your favour to take anything from Ibrox and for that reason yesterday was a missed opportunity IMO. 

Taking the lead against the run of play, not conceding from the inevitable soft penalty, keeping 11 men on the field combined with Rangers resting their best players and not being at it in general - all went in our favour. 

Not getting a foul on Donnelly in the lead up to the first, a normally reliable Gillespie making a hash of it and then the ball falling perfectly to the man in form - didn't.

But sitting in so early and conceding from a set piece (when we had a warning earlier in the half) is all down to us. Polworth and Donnelly were absolutely done mid way through the second half yet no changes?  You can't invite that sort of pressure at Ibrox and expect to get away with it, even when they are not at their best. Our second half performance lost us the game and that's down to the players and manager I'm afraid - incredibly frustrating. 

I get all the chat about budgets, but there is no getting away from the fact our league record against Rangers is far far worse than it should be. 

[Neilwell86]

2 hours ago, Yodo said:

Just watched the highlights don't know why there was nobody on the post at the winning goal we had plenty players in the box ,quite sure a player on the post would have kept it out .Long had two good chances and upfront is where we are really lacking a finisher difference between finishing top 6 or not .The worry for me is Rangers even with them playing on Thursday looked a lot fitter at the end than us we were blowing out our arses or is that down to the budget as well 

how many changes did they make from the game on Thursday, 4 maybe 5?  they were able to keep there 20m striker on the bench for Jermain Defoe, they took there new 7m signing of the bench to replace Barker when he went off injured, they are able to make changes like that due to there budget, Crasy isn't it?

the fitness issue is a non starter, we aren't an unfit side. Chasing the ball around for 90 minutes is slightly demoralising and takes it out of you, that's to be expected playing Celtic and Rangers, especially away from home.

[C&A not the shop]

Our record against Rangers is poor, that's fair to say. Though its telling that we discount cup games and the play offs because it doesn't suit the story.

 

Our record at Celtic Park is probably a lot better than our peers and on average if we count them (the old firm) as one we're probably bang average againsy them amongst other teams at our level.

 

We used to beat rangers all the time in the 90s despite having less success (more top 3 finishes, more cup finals etc. Obviously barring one major success). Its

It's just a quirk of statistics, not some deep seated fear of going to ibrox, but that's not fun to get raging about.

Edited October 28, 2019 by C&A not the shop

[texanwellfan]

4 hours ago, Yodo said:

Just watched the highlights don't know why there was nobody on the post at the winning goal we had plenty players in the box ,quite sure a player on the post would have kept it out .Long had two good chances and upfront is where we are really lacking a finisher difference between finishing top 6 or not .The worry for me is Rangers even with them playing on Thursday looked a lot fitter at the end than us we were blowing out our arses or is that down to the budget as well 

I think it’s modern tactics. A lot of teams don’t put players on the posts. Not sure why since I see that same scenario week after week.  I am still a fan of putting your shorter guys on the posts

[Winning by Name]

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 9:57 PM, Shaka said:

No Shit Sherlock! 

You don't seem to understand sarcasm. If you read the comment I was referring to you would get it (maybe)

[Well Well]

Full blown meltdown by some, over reaction by others, complete denial by the rest....Motherwell must have lost a game at some point this week 

[Yorkyred]

8 hours ago, Blakey said:

Correct. I only wish more of our fans thought along those lines instead of trying to excuse performances like yesterday's second half with "Rangers budget is bigger than ours".

The difference in budget didn't cause our team and manager to approach the second half with the sole tactic of trying to hang on for a point.

The difference in budget didn't cause us to drop deeper and deeper til we were defending on our own 18 yard line.

And the difference in budget didn't cause us to concede a goal due to our goalkeeper making a howler and then concede another soft one from a cross later in the game.

I'm fed up with the attitude from some of our fans that says we basically have no chance of beating them because of their budget. That as I said is a cop out and you're just basically lying to yourself in order to give yourself some consolation.

The difference in budget is a huge factor in all of those things because we have inferior players to Rangers. You’ve basically just stated we had a keeper that made mistakes who we signed from the lower leagues because we don’t have the budget to sign one of a higher lever standard. You could not have made the point about budgets making a difference any clearer.

[twistandshout1983]

11 hours ago, Blakey said:

That is just a cop out I'm afraid.

As far as I am aware and happy to be corrected, we have not beaten Rangers since 2002 ish in the league? Yet other sides have no problem beating them. Kilmarnock beat them twice last season and didn't lose a league match to them, Aberdeen beat them three times, Hamilton Accies went to Ibrox and won a couple of years ago, as have Saint Johnstone. 

Granted over the course of a season these teams won't win the league but how come sides like these manage to beat Rangers/take points off them on occasion, but we NEVER do, with the exception of the odd draw here and there.

We shit the bed against them just about every time, especially at Ibrox and then give ourselves pats on the back for a brave display against a team that's budget is bigger than ours whilst other sides are going there and taking points from them. Are you getting that?

I agree,  regardless of what manager and players we have we always seem to find a way to lose to them in league games and our record against this mob is by far the worst of all the teams in the league.  Sure I read it was over 40 games in a row since that 2002 game.