Stadium and training ground back on agenda

[Onthefringes]

5 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

However my main objection is that Fir Park is Motherwell FC's spiritual home and if you take that away, for me anyway, you don't have the spirit any more. 

How very... parochial.

We’ve moved before and done alright.

[weeyin]

6 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

How very... parochial.

We’ve moved before and done alright.

So did Accies, but I wouldn't fancy a plastic pitch and 3 sided stadium.

Falkirk, on the other hand, didn't fare so well.

[Yorkyred]

Have any ground moves in Scotland really been a success. Airdrie, Clyde, Falkirk being three examples.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

Have any ground moves in Scotland really been a success. Airdrie, Clyde, Falkirk being three examples.

St Johnstone?

[supermarv]

So what happens if we move, will it attract any more fans than we currently have? Probably not. Most likely won’t have the same feeling about it on match days either. Fir Park is an identity to the Motherwell town centre. A place like ravenscraig built on contaminated land and a lot harder to get to for rail links etc. And other surroundings was the reason that plan was thrown out the last time. Stay at Fir Park, redevelop the main stand line Hearts have done with their stand. 

[mfc88]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

Have any ground moves in Scotland really been a success. Airdrie, Clyde, Falkirk being three examples.

St Mirren? And re Falkirk, you've got to ask where they'd be had they not moved away from Brockville. 

I have thought for a while a move away from FP may be a possibility sometime. I do just hope we manage to keep some sort of character to the stadium and not end up with a subbuteo ground. And thought given to transport/ accessibility hopefully also a high priority.

[Andy_P]

I think my preference, were it financially viable, would always be to remain at a redeveloped Fir Park but important to remember that the world has changed since the likes of Airdrie built their stadium (there is no longer a requirement for x number of seats) and even St Mirren, given that safe standing is now a possibility would help in coming up with a configuration that would be more palatable than say a McDiarmid Park style stadium.

It will also be worth keeping in mind that the area around Fir Park is not what it was when the club moved there and nor is Ravenscraig likely to remain as it would if and when we moved there.

[1991]

My preference is to stay at Fir Park.

I'm surprised we are discussing this so quickly after the debt announcement. It's like were almost debt free so let's get into debt and change everything.

Hearts and Hibs seem to have redeveloped well.

If we do move I suggest we use Livingston as an example, I quite like the corners filled in, think it could generate a good atmosphere 

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, 1991 said:

I'm surprised we are discussing this so quickly after the debt announcement. It's like were almost debt free so let's get into debt and change everything.

Hearts and Hibs seem to have redeveloped well.

Absolutely, it does seem strange.  Hearts and Hibs are far bigger clubs financially and staying at their current grounds were second best options. Land prices in and around Edinburgh are astronomical. Interestingly on Sportsound yesterday it was announced, without comment (really???) that Aberdeen have progressed their plans to advanced stage but the only outstanding problem is paying for the new stadium - a £50m shortfall.

As far as we are concerned, I'm 100% behind a move away from Fir Park providing that a new stadium was developed properly.  It would have to be a good stadium that met our needs. I get the sentimentality for Fir Park, I've been going there for over 60 years and its my second home but its had its day. The East Stand and POD Stand are way past their sell by dates and the South Stand is now showing its age. Redevelopment would be an issue. Its all very well harping on about the old lady but a new generation of fans need a safer stadium; they need better access; they need better seating; they need better toilets; they need better catering facilities and the club needs lower maintenace costs. These could not be provided without demolition of and rebuilding Fir Park.

[TvTotherwell]

Forget about moving and invest in training facilities and youth. Our away stand (I recon) is a great size to generate income from the bigger teams like the ugly sister, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen. They all bring decent size crowds. Having a Livingston/St Mirren type stadium could/would reduce the ticket money from away fans.  We've been praised by travelling fans (with families) for our pricing structure of late. That makes us an appealing away day. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

For us even to consider such a project we would need a huge helping hand financially.  That would have to be part of a bigger re-development project that would probably offer other retail or community type services / options. 

A brand new stadium done well would cost £15m+ some of that would have to come from Motherwell FC. 

I am in favour of staying at Fir Park and re-developing Main stand and East stand and fill in corners etc. But that would also cost many millions and no public body is likely to do that just to upgrade a football stadium.  In fact they simply would not. Maybe if we were to continue to rake in £m for player sales inc Turnbull etc then it may be possible but would again be likely to be £5m+ 

So most likely option is to sell the ground for whatever value for housing or retail and to use the proceeds to help go towards funding a new stadium alongside Govt / Council support. And yes probably as part of continuing efforts to re-develop ravenscraig. 

[joewarkfanclub]

Id be loathed to move away from Fir Park, but it all comes down to finances.

Can we afford the ongoing maintenance costs without redevelopment?

If not can we afford to redevelop at the existing site?

If not, how much is the land worth and would anyone buy it?

Would this revenue be enough to build something decent elsewhere?

Where would be the best site for a newbuild? How much would the land cost? Would the council help out?

As a fan owned club, any decision we make will have long lasting effects. It needs to be the right one.

[Yorkyred]

28 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

For us even to consider such a project we would need a huge helping hand financially.  That would have to be part of a bigger re-development project that would probably offer other retail or community type services / options. 

A brand new stadium done well would cost £15m+ some of that would have to come from Motherwell FC. 

I am in favour of staying at Fir Park and re-developing Main stand and East stand and fill in corners etc. But that would also cost many millions and no public body is likely to do that just to upgrade a football stadium.  In fact they simply would not. Maybe if we were to continue to rake in £m for player sales inc Turnbull etc then it may be possible but would again be likely to be £5m+ 

So most likely option is to sell the ground for whatever value for housing or retail and to use the proceeds to help go towards funding a new stadium alongside Govt / Council support. And yes probably as part of continuing efforts to re-develop ravenscraig. 

£15m is very much at the lower end. The new York community stadium and leisure hub plus an athletics track has cost 44million. That’s an 8500 stadium. St Mirren stadium 15 years ago was 8 million and I would think that same stadium now would cost 15 million. That’s for a very basic 8000 seater stadium. Costs quoted for a new 20000 stadium for Aberdeen is 50 million. I would say a new and half decent 15000 seater stadium would now be closer to 25 million.

[Well Well]

17 hours ago, Ross said:

Because moving to the ravenscraig where the ground is contaminated sounds like a great way to fix the pitch


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As you will not doubt read from my posts I have not ever wanted to move and in fact in my next post you will see I prefer a complete refurb of our current stadium

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

£15m is very much at the lower end. The new York community stadium and leisure hub plus an athletics track has cost 44million. That’s an 8500 stadium. St Mirren stadium 15 years ago was 8 million and I would think that same stadium now would cost 15 million. That’s for a very basic 8000 seater stadium. Costs quoted for a new 20000 stadium for Aberdeen is 50 million. I would say a new and half decent 15000 seater stadium would now be closer to 25 million.

About 5 years ago, a bog standard new stadium would cost around £1,000 per seat. A 12,000 seater venue would then have cost about £12m.  It will have gone up a bit since then.

Al B makes a very good point on Pie & Bovril and it deserves wider exposure. " The main reason we'd never re-develop Fir Park is that doing anything at all requires the revenue from selling it. It's move or nothing. "

[Yorkyred]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

About 5 years ago, a bog standard new stadium would cost around £1,000 per seat. A 12,000 seater venue would then have cost about £12m.  It will have gone up a bit since then.

Al B makes a very good point on Pie & Bovril and it deserves wider exposure. " The main reason we'd never re-develop Fir Park is that doing anything at all requires the revenue from selling it. It's move or nothing. "

The “bog standard” bit been crucial. Not sure if the club would think 12000 was the correct capacity, with outside funding they may not have a choice. But yes 12000 capacity with four simple stands and not much else may be doable for around 15m. 15000 with something about it design wise and added extras 20/25 million.

[ropy]

Would there be any reason not to call a new stadium Fir Park?

[Spiderpig]

Just now, ropy said:

Would there be any reason not to call a new stadium Fir Park?

Name would depend on who puts up the most cash for stadium naming rights / sponsorship, if we wanted to go down that road 

[LarkyWellFan]

As a fan-owned club, how long of a loan term would we realistically need to pay back the multi-millions needed for a new stadium? The land Fir Park sits on can only be worth so much to a housing developer. I would be up for the idea, as long as it was done well but would need convinced on how this could be possible for us.

[Yorkyred]

14 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Name would depend on who puts up the most cash for stadium naming rights / sponsorship, if we wanted to go down that road 

Using York as an example the council payed the bulk of the money for a community stadium for use by both the football and rugby club. The football club added a certain amount but have no say in anything in reality and will pay rent as a joint tennent. I would image any new stadium not funded by the football club will be exactly the same.

[joewarkfanclub]

32 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

The “bog standard” bit been crucial. Not sure if the club would think 12000 was the correct capacity, with outside funding they may not have a choice. But yes 12000 capacity with four simple stands and not much else may be doable for around 15000. 15000 with something about it design wise and added extras 20/25 million.

I dont think we need a 12000 capacity stadium. Even when the gruesome twosome come we struggle to get 10k.

I would suggest 10k would be plenty. Id favour looking at some of the Scandinavian stadia for design ideas though. The one we played in at Aelesund was quite an attractive stadium. Be interesting to see how much that cost and if it could be incorporated into a community based set up with retail / dining / entertainment options. 

Would there be room around Brandon Arcade for such a venture?

[weeyin]

Aeslund's stadium cost 160 million Norwegian Krone to build in 2005.

According my brief search on the internet, that's about £13.5 million in 2005 money and nearly £20 million in 2019 money after you take inflation into account.

 

[joewarkfanclub]

The Aker Stadion in Molde is an absolute belter. 11,280 capacity.

https://www.stadiumguide.com/akerstadion/

[weeyin]

18 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

The Aker Stadion in Molde is an absolute belter. 11,280 capacity.

https://www.stadiumguide.com/akerstadion/

212 million Norwegian Krone in 1997. About £17.5 million in 1997 money and £27 million in today's money.

(That's me done working out Norwegian conversion and inflation rates).

[Yorkyred]

23 minutes ago, weeyin said:

212 million Norwegian Krone in 1997. About £17.5 million in 1997 money and £27 million in today's money.

(That's me done working out Norwegian conversion and inflation rates).

And that’s the thing, four basic stands ( relatively cheap) a bit of style ( not cheap)