Stadium and training ground back on agenda

[Pepper]

Fir Park looked really tired last night, the old girl is really showing her age, 

The sooner we can move the better IMO.

[weeyin]

Problem is we have no money.

 

 

[numpty]

2 hours ago, Pepper said:

Fir Park looked really tired last night, the old girl is really showing her age, 

Old stadiums do tend to look better with people in them, it's fair to say. All those newfangled symmetrical constructions are designed to look good empty.

[weeyin]

The all seated Fir Park can look ugly. You notice that even more if you view it from the Phil O'Donnell Stand. It doesn't look as bad from the other side looking into the O'Donnell.

While it was by no means pristine when it had terracing, its open air nature did make it look better when it was empty. Or maybe that's just the nostalgia talking.

 

 

[Stuwell2]

1 hour ago, weeyin said:

The all seated Fir Park can look ugly. You notice that even more if you view it from the Phil O'Donnell Stand. It doesn't look as bad from the other side looking into the O'Donnell.

While it was by no means pristine when it had terracing, its open air nature did make it look better when it was empty. Or maybe that's just the nostalgia talking.

 

 

That’s a right old photo - the pie huts aren’t even built yet! 

[Kmcalpin]

7 hours ago, Pepper said:

Fir Park looked really tired last night, the old girl is really showing her age, 

The sooner we can move the better IMO.

I've regarded Fir Park as my second home for over 60 years now. Its the one constant in my life, and I really love the old girl, but her time has come and gone. I agree Pepper that we need to move. Nostalgia and sentimentailty are one thing but future fans will want decent and up to date facilities and rightly so.   I doubt we'll move anytime soon but it has to happen.  

[ropy]

8 hours ago, Pepper said:

Fir Park looked really tired last night, the old girl is really showing her age, 

The sooner we can move the better IMO.

I’m not saying you are wrong but what was it you saw last night to make you feel that way.  I only saw the pitch and some cardboard cut outs.

[Pepper]

8 minutes ago, ropy said:

I’m not saying you are wrong but what was it you saw last night to make you feel that way.  I only saw the pitch and some cardboard cut outs.

I fully appreciate not everyone will feel the same, but the place just had a very gloomy, depressed feel about it.  Not sure what was going on with the floodlights but at one point you could see  a marked difference between the lighting level of the Main Stand and  East Stand  side floodlights which made the place look even worse than it does normally.  It all just looked  a bit tired and  well, amateurish TBH.  

I'll openly admit to being a bit of a fussy bugger, for example the rust covering every metal surface in the ground drives me nuts, and I've never been a fan of the haphazard layout of the stands, but that's just me. 

 

[Kmcalpin]

 I too picked up on rusty / tardy stanchions and struts and thought that they’d seen better days. Whilst the piecemeal appearance of the 4 stands looks odd to say the least it’s the poor facilities in the 2 oldest stands that get to me. In short there’s no feasible solution to upgrading the POD and John Hunter stands. It rankles with me that a significant proportion of our future budgets will go to maintaining, not improving, these out of date structures.  

[StirlingDosser]

On 8/28/2020 at 11:49 PM, Kmcalpin said:

 I too picked up on rusty / tardy stanchions and struts and thought that they’d seen better days. Whilst the piecemeal appearance of the 4 stands looks odd to say the least it’s the poor facilities in the 2 oldest stands that get to me. In short there’s no feasible solution to upgrading the POD and John Hunter stands. It rankles with me that a significant proportion of our future budgets will go to maintaining, not improving, these out of date structures.  

The POD stand is strangling us. It is light years behind other grounds in terms of potential and costing us an absolute fortune. Falkirk's main stand was mentioned and is excellent from top to bottom, quality hospitality space, good space for club facilities such as the medical/player spaces, etc. Also has a cracking view as it is as steep as Tynecastle. The commercial side of the club has come in leaps and bounds under Flow, just wish we had the main stand to match it and appeal more to the corporate market.

Moving to a new ground gives me the fear to an extent. Getting it wrong  would be a disaster and thats it fecked for the next 60 years. Imagine being a St Mirren or St Johnstone fan in one of those subutteo kit stadiums with no prospect of moving into something better? Getting new facilities on the other hand is needed for the long term sustainability of the club. 

[ropy]

I suspect St Mirren and St Johnstone fans are now used to their new homes, they are both bigger than they actually need.  I would expect in time we would accept a new set up, the thing that would concern me more would be the location if it was isolated.

However if there was an option to rework the main stand at Fir Park I would be supportive of that.

[StirlingDosser]

If we only had a blank cheque...always enjoyed computer modelling so put the imagination to good use during lockdown. 12,000 seats and inspired by some of those Scandanavian grounds with the two small tiers while keeping "the shed". Sad...maybe, but just shows that because we are in need of a smaller ground it doesn't need to be a washout lego effort. 

[middleeastdave]

I think unless we have some millionaires who are willing to plough money for a new stadium we will be at Fir Park for the foreseeable future.

I think it’s common knowledge that SR has stated that the priority for him should be a training ground and is hoping that the DT money will help towards that cause, but when you see Aberdeen spent 13 million for their training ground don’t see us getting much of one if relying on the DT money!!

[SteelmaninOZ]

1 hour ago, StirlingDosser said:

If we only had a blank cheque...always enjoyed computer modelling so put the imagination to good use during lockdown. 12,000 seats and inspired by some of those Scandanavian grounds with the two small tiers while keeping "the shed". Sad...maybe, but just shows that because we are in need of a smaller ground it doesn't need to be a washout lego effort. 

On the first look of this I would like this refurbished Fir Park to happen.

[eddiemunster]

Referring to Fir Park (or any fitba stadium for that matter) as "The Old Girl" is a heavy rid neck.

[C&A not the shop]

If you move it to the closest corner of Ravenscraig on the unused land there then you can have the new ground built within a mile walking distance of Fir Park.  The ability to have it so close but still in a semi out of town/brownfield site makes it seem like an easy choice to move and reduce the running costs that Fir Park has and to improve facilities and maybe generate other revenue streams, so we shoudl get moving while that land is available but....

A move from Fir Park will definitely have an impact on our support. We've got 3,500 to 4,000 season ticket holders (Approx) how many of them are over 60 or coming with kids under 8 and don't fancy the extra mile walk? How many are just renewing out of habit and any change is going to be enough to push them in to not renewing?

We're in a total Catch 22 where we can't afford to move and can't afford not to move

[Kmcalpin]

6 minutes ago, C&A not the shop said:

If you move it to the closest corner of Ravenscraig on the unused land there then you can have the new ground built within a mile walking distance of Fir Park.  The ability to have it so close but still in a semi out of town/brownfield site makes it seem like an easy choice to move and reduce the running costs that Fir Park has and to improve facilities and maybe generate other revenue streams, so we shoudl get moving while that land is available but....

A move from Fir Park will definitely have an impact on our support. We've got 3,500 to 4,000 season ticket holders (Approx) how many of them are over 60 or coming with kids under 8 and don't fancy the extra mile walk? How many are just renewing out of habit and any change is going to be enough to push them in to not renewing?

We're in a total Catch 22 where we can't afford to move and can't afford not to move

I would not think that it would make much difference to be honest. Its not as if the club would be moving 10/15 miles away. It might lose a handful of fans but gain more from those living in new housing almost next door. Apart from that new facilities might attract more punters.  I agree about the Catch 22 situation though. Can't see amove anytime soon.  

[KirkySuperSub]

It's a Catch 22 until such times as it becomes a significant drain on finances and ends up costing us more in maintenance and upkeep than a new 'mortgage' would cost. How near we are to that point however, I've no idea.

It's like my 10 year old Audi...120,000 miles on the clock...still ticking over...still reliable...and still getting me from A to B...however each year it is costing increasingly more to get it through it's MOT, and while it's not quite there yet, a few more years it will not be cost effective to do so...

 Question is, how soon will be at that point with 'The Old Girl'......?! 

[Stuwell2]

If we move to the site in the Craig stated above  then I’d like to see a train station built  next to the ground which could also serve the college during the week as well. 
 

[Kmcalpin]

Just now, Stuwell2 said:

If we move to the site in the Craig stated above  then I’d like to see a train station built  next to the ground which could also serve the college during the week as well. 
 

Absolutely but who would pay for it? 

[C&A not the shop]

A bridge over the railway at that location would cut the walk from Fir Park  to about a third of a mile. A train station right at the ground would be great except for when Rangers and Celtic come and make fan management a disaster.

 

Also it would be exactly halfway between Motherwell and Shieldmuir so about a mile from each, there really wouldn't be the need for another train station.

[Inthebasement]

IMO humble opinion the only clubs to emerge from a move to a new build stadia better off are those that needed increased capacity to increase revenues. For the fans it's almost always a sad loss of identity, memories and atmosphere. Ask home or away players about playing in front of the east stand, we have a special intensity on the pitch for big games. I personally adore Fir Park it's tremendous, and i'd rather see us relegated than move to a Tony Macaroni Arena which is all we could reasonably hope for. If we really needed a refurb a rebuild of the Phil O'Donnell would surely be preferable to a move.

[Onthefringes]

39 minutes ago, Inthebasement said:

IMO humble opinion the only clubs to emerge from a move to a new build stadia better off are those that needed increased capacity to increase revenues. For the fans it's almost always a sad loss of identity, memories and atmosphere. Ask home or away players about playing in front of the east stand, we have a special intensity on the pitch for big games. I personally adore Fir Park it's tremendous, and i'd rather see us relegated than move to a Tony Macaroni Arena which is all we could reasonably hope for. If we really needed a refurb a rebuild of the Phil O'Donnell would surely be preferable to a move.

And that intensity couldn’t be recreated? It’s the people who create that, not any structure.

Rebuild of a stand that couldn’t be completed when first constructed?  Piffle.

[weeyin]

 

1 minute ago, Onthefringes said:

And that intensity couldn’t be recreated? It’s the people who create that, not any structure.

We certainly lost some of that intensity when we went all seated in the East.

As a club with a financial philosophy these days of "break even", the only way we could obtain the cash to build a new stadium would be via a substantial loan or from a benefactor.

Having just become debt-free, the thought of assuming a new debt or being beholden to an individual investor does not appeal.

So unless we can get a substantial no-strings attached donation from somewhere, I can't see much beyond the usual fare of a small box effort with uncomfortable plastic seats and a one way system that backs-up at full time.

I really hope I am well and truly wrong about that.

[Stuwell2]

2 hours ago, C&A not the shop said:

A bridge over the railway at that location would cut the walk from Fir Park  to about a third of a mile. A train station right at the ground would be great except for when Rangers and Celtic come and make fan management a disaster.

 

Also it would be exactly halfway between Motherwell and Shieldmuir so about a mile from each, there really wouldn't be the need for another train station.

Infrastructure around any new stadium would be in conjunction with the council/gov but  should have its own parking  - possibly shared with the college - so no need for a bridge unless it improves accessibility . 
As for a station, with the amount of new houses planned for that area I’d  expect that there are already plans for a stop somewhere within that area given the move towards environmental impacts.
Ideally as their are two train lines either side of the area, a station on both lines would be ideal allowing the station to be used for concerts or other events which would create extra income and with two station one could be used for away fans and one for home fans - but I that’s more of a pipe dream.