2019 Finances/AGM

[Kmcalpin]

I was pleasantly surprised to hear that we had paid off Les Hutchison and John Boyle in full. As of the last set of accounts to May 2018 we owed them a collective total of £994,000.  Now since then we sold Cedric to Wigan for £750K (paying off £300,000) and we've since had minor fees for Stuart McKinstry and Reece MacAlear totalling say £300,000 paying £120,000.  Even allowing for Les's double your money offer I still thought we'd be owing some £300,000 or thereabouts.  Its great though that the monies have been repaid within the agreed 3 year period (where monies came from 40% of transfers fees) without having to agree loan repayment terms. So, we're now debt free apart from £80K to 5 supporters.

Sportsound yesterday included some very odd interviews. As I understand it, Alan Burrows said that this was great news and would allow the club to move forward. More still needed to be done as it was only the end of the beginning.  So far so good. Richard Gordon then announced that Les would be coming onto the show later with a different, not so rosy, view.  As far as I understand that, he said that he had saved us from administration, by some 2 weeks (which most of us knew already) and that fans would still need to contribute financially to keep the financial model viable, which is exactly what Jim McMahon said 2 or 3 years ago.  In other words the end of the beginning.   So, ignoring Richard Gordon's confused summary, Les and Alan Burrows said pretty much the same thing.

A very factual account of Rangers' £11.3 m loss was then given by Jonathan Sutherland but that wasn't deemed to be bad news. 

The bottom line is that, apart from £80K we are now debt free and that from now on the club retains transfer fees in full. 

[middleeastdave]

Does anyone know when we have our AGM?

[rinkydink]

14 hours ago, middleeastdave said:

Does anyone know when we have our AGM?

Good question - invites had come out by this time last year I think.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

On 11/27/2019 at 7:37 PM, middleeastdave said:

Does anyone know when we have our AGM?

Monday 16 December at 7pm

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Just received my accounts.  The club posted a loss for the year of £436,000.

The early cup exits and a reduction in the payment received from UEFA for no Scottish teams participating in the Champions League group stage were mentioned as factors, however the sale of Kipre seemingly brought in almost £800k.  

[daver]

Just to be clear, we lost £436k despite selling Kipre?

[weeyin]

5 minutes ago, daver said:

Just to be clear, we lost £436k despite selling Kipre?

I haven't seen the latest accounts yet, but they get a bit skewed by the fact the footballing financial year isn't the same as a footballing season so the transactions don't quite align.

[daver]

I'd like to think we knew we had the Kipre money coming, allowing us to spend on certain projects. We can't afford to run up losses with our day-to-day spending. 

[weeyin]

I don't think we'll be running up losses, but I'm sure the folks at the AGM will be happy to answer questions along those lines. They are usually pretty open (as they should be) about the finances.

[Kmcalpin]

If  recall rightly, the club's financial year ends on 30 May annually.

[joewarkfanclub]

Not sure how we can have lost money when we cant borrow from anyone and we have just paid off all our debt. I would have thought it was almost impossible given our structure. It may be a notional loss comparing money in to money out. Be interested to here from anyone with more knowledge or insight.

[weeyin]

5 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Not sure how we can have lost money when we cant borrow from anyone and we have just paid off all our debt. I would have thought it was almost impossible given our structure. It may be a notional loss comparing money in to money out. Be interested to here from anyone with more knowledge or insight.

As I said further up the thread, best idea is to ask questions at the AGM. I think Kmcalpin is right when he says end of May is when the books closed, so things must have been in decent shape between June and now to allow us to pay off our interest free loans.

 

[Kmcalpin]

14 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Not sure how we can have lost money when we cant borrow from anyone and we have just paid off all our debt. I would have thought it was almost impossible given our structure. It may be a notional loss comparing money in to money out. Be interested to here from anyone with more knowledge or insight.

I have exactly the same question but all will become clear when we receive the audited accounts. If we have incurred this loss how are we almost"debt free?  It doesn't make sense. The only thing I can think of is that the loss of £436,000 is before transfer income is taken into account. I've seen accounts presented that way before, although I'm no accountant. 

[supermarv]

Don’t know how entirely true this is and comes from a Celtic page that I seen some well fan retweeted. I mean with all our recent transfer dealings it may seem close. 

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I have exactly the same question but all will become clear when we receive the audited accounts. If we have incurred this loss how are we almost"debt free?  It doesn't make sense. The only thing I can think of is that the loss of £436,000 is before transfer income is taken into account. I've seen accounts presented that way before, although I'm no accountant. 

It almost certainly won't include the post-May 31st fees agreed for guys like McAlear, McKinstry (or Hastie and Cadden come to that) which will have generated a decent slice of income. McAlear in particular would have given us a cross-border development fee for a youngster moving to an EPL level club.

[middleeastdave]

Any updates on Hastie or Camden compensation, I think we might get some money back on Camden eventually, but Hastie to me should be straight forward Rangers pay us for all the years of development, why is this taking so long, obviously waiting on Sevco going out of business again!!!

[santheman]

Accounts are just a snapshot of a particular moment in time so I wouldn't be drawing any worrying conclusions as to the financial state of the club.

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, supermarv said:

Don’t know how entirely true this is and comes from a Celtic page that I seen some well fan retweeted. I mean with all our recent transfer dealings it may seem close. 

I think you've probably answered your own question with your source, there. I'd be doubtful of it's veracity.

43 minutes ago, middleeastdave said:

Any updates on Hastie or Camden compensation, I think we might get some money back on Camden eventually, but Hastie to me should be straight forward Rangers pay us for all the years of development, why is this taking so long, obviously waiting on Sevco going out of business again!!!

Cool your jets on Hastie, I heard from a pal that it was resolved, and I imagine that'll be raised at the AGM.

Cadden will be longer term with the jiggerypokery done by Columbus/Oxford/Cadden's agent, but I'd be very confident of getting something from it.

[superward]

Robinson mentions in the club podcast that we received a good fee for Hastie. So sounds done. 

The 1.7m is correct but it's the posted profit from 17/18, not this year - https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2018/11/28/2017-18-financial-results-announced/

[Kmcalpin]

Our financial year ended on 31 May. As Toxteth says the overall loss was £436k. Transfer income was £780k primarily, but not exclusivley,  from Cedric's transfer. Any transfer fees received after this date ie currently Stuart McKinstry, Reece MacAlear and Jake Hastie will fall into the 2019-20 accounting year. At the end of the 2018-19 year we owed messrs Boyle and Hutchison a total of £617,000, which has now been paid off.  Our outstanding debt is now £80,000 which is expected to be cleared soon, leaving us totally debt free. The playing budget was increased in 2018-19 to the minimum level that the Directors assessed to be necessary to allow us to compete. 

I'm still unsure how we made a loss but still managed to pay off debts to messrs Boyle and Hutchison. I'm no accountant so maybe the answer lies buried in the financial figures somewhere.  Still, the financial outlook seems positive. Some of the above posters will already know from public announcements. 

[supermarv]

In my opinion with the club now being debt free, and a fan owned-club I think we should be doing events regarding crowds to raise them as high as possible.

Maybe once a month at home games of course, promos like tomorrow “Well Society members get a free ticket”, we could add more like of course last game of the season is always the loads of free tickets to school kids, Xmas period you get a free pie or bring a friend for half price/ free. 

Definitely something the club should look at which could inevitably increase fans and money, with merchandise purchases, kiosks etc. Good piece of marketing and will likely get a lot of praise as a club. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

I reviewed the accounts and there was a significant and expected drop in gate receipts and tv income due to not being involved in 2 cup finals. This is largely why we went from a £1.7m profit to a £440k loss. In addition the club made Repayments to Boyle and Hutchison which were actually in excess of the loss itself.  So had we not made these repayments the club would have been in profit, albeit not to the same extent of the previous year.  With the money being available it made sense to continue to pay off these 2 previous owners. 

Now that we have paid them off in full we will not have future debt repayments apart from the £80k owed to 5 individuals. 

 

[Big Wispy Flossy]

24 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I reviewed the accounts and there was a significant and expected drop in gate receipts and tv income due to not being involved in 2 cup finals. This is largely why we went from a £1.7m profit to a £440k loss. In addition the club made Repayments to Boyle and Hutchison which were actually in excess of the loss itself.  So had we not made these repayments the club would have been in profit, albeit not to the same extent of the previous year.  With the money being available it made sense to continue to pay off these 2 previous owners. 

Now that we have paid them off in full we will not have future debt repayments apart from the £80k owed to 5 individuals. 

 

Debt repayments are not tax deductible  as they are already shown in the previous accounts as a creditor.  Only interest on tax is deductible and as we had interest free loans then this won’t be a factor.

as far as I could see the loss is largely a result of lower than expected performance in league and cups and pitch and stadium repairs.

[ropy]

2 hours ago, supermarv said:

In my opinion with the club now being debt free, and a fan owned-club I think we should be doing events regarding crowds to raise them as high as possible.

Maybe once a month at home games of course, promos like tomorrow “Well Society members get a free ticket”, we could add more like of course last game of the season is always the loads of free tickets to school kids, Xmas period you get a free pie or bring a friend for half price/ free. 

Definitely something the club should look at which could inevitably increase fans and money, with merchandise purchases, kiosks etc. Good piece of marketing and will likely get a lot of praise as a club. 

Are these initiatives as effective as a fan encouraging a friend or family member along regularly

[supermarv]

9 hours ago, ropy said:

Are these initiatives as effective as a fan encouraging a friend or family member along regularly

The club publicise it and make it known , say it’s a good game then they’ll come along next time and then the next. Of course we want it to be all Motherwell fans but perhaps people who do support us but just for whatever reason don’t go. 
This would be a good season to start. Fan-owned club that are debt free, so we could do these promos, especially with a great team on the park this season with football that is watchable. Should be doing everything we can to get Fir Park as busy and loud as possible.
Could also do bucket donations etc. For the Well Society that I’ve seen in the past, everything helps to the running of our football club, and now it’s only us that can better that.