2019 Finances/AGM

[ropy]

If the prior club had a sell on clause I would expect them to get a percentage of all proceeds we get for him, so a percentage of a transfer fee and the same percentage of any sell on fee.  And I expect to get the same if a player we sell gets sold on and on again.

[middleeastdave]

33 minutes ago, ropy said:

If the prior club had a sell on clause I would expect them to get a percentage of all proceeds we get for him, so a percentage of a transfer fee and the same percentage of any sell on fee.  And I expect to get the same if a player we sell gets sold on and on again.

Sorry I forgot to add that Alan Burrows reckons there was no sell on clause with Kidderminster Harriers for Johnson.

[superward]

1 hour ago, ropy said:

If the prior club had a sell on clause I would expect them to get a percentage of all proceeds we get for him, so a percentage of a transfer fee and the same percentage of any sell on fee.  And I expect to get the same if a player we sell gets sold on and on again.

I wouldn't. Entirely depends on the contracts agreed. 

[weeyin]

My notice of the AGM just arrived today.

See you all there!

[Toxteth O'Grady]

 

[joewarkfanclub]

Good work from all concerned.

We can now invest every penny we earn into improving the squad and our facilities.

Happy days.

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Good work from all concerned.

We can now invest every penny we earn into improving the squad and our facilities.

Happy days.

No doubt Robbo will still say we wont be able to sign any players as we have no money!! Lol

[stv]

Think hs been a big part of getting rid of debt , bringing in cheap ,selling high and all within a budget.

[GazzyB]

Mind last year when we were in the bottom six and out both cups and everyone was slating Burrows on a daily basis. Now we are 3rd, Europe beckoning, decent chance of getting to the SC semis and guaranteed top six. And not a peep.

 

Fuck sake Burrows.

[middleeastdave]

I think Robinson’s priority is a training ground as he has mentioned many times especially at the AGM in December 2019

[Kmcalpin]

Well done to the Club's directors and management. Society members are also helping to finance the club through monthly contributions, all of which now remain in the club. Who says fan ownership doesn't work. Debt free......you bet.

[weeyin]

I was on board with the Society from the outset, but surprised it has had so much success in such a short space of time. There have been mistakes along the way, but there's no doubt in my mind it is the best way forward for ourselves and other clubs of our size and means.

A good cup run and a high league finish would be a nice way to celebrate being debt free.

[ropy]

Are we now going to store up a rainy day fund or will we raise spending to match our incomings?

[Neilwell86]

2 hours ago, ropy said:

Are we now going to store up a rainy day fund or will we raise spending to match our incomings?

When you say raise spending it all depends in what capacity, I certainly don't think we should now go and put 100k down for a player and offer him 3k a week, players wise stick to the exact same model that is working and has got us to this position, we still won't be able to compete with hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen I don't imagine? What it may allow us to do is maybe be an even more attractive option than the teams we compete with, kilmarnock, st johnstone although I would say we are already there anyway in terms of the platform we have proven we offer players. 

where we should raise our spending ever so slightly is the infrastructure, in training facilities, in the youth set up whilst building a pot to fall back on if ever need be.

[Winning by Name]

48 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

When you say raise spending it all depends in what capacity, I certainly don't think we should now go and put 100k down for a player and offer him 3k a week, players wise stick to the exact same model that is working and has got us to this position, we still won't be able to compete with hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen I don't imagine? What it may allow us to do is maybe be an even more attractive option than the teams we compete with, kilmarnock, st johnstone although I would say we are already there anyway in terms of the platform we have proven we offer players. 

where we should raise our spending ever so slightly is the infrastructure, in training facilities, in the youth set up whilst building a pot to fall back on if ever need be.

I agree completely. especially the last sentence.

I wish I could apply those actions and thoughts to my own life.

[Kmcalpin]

First and foremost put in place a contingency fund for the inevitable bad spell. Secondly fork out for necessary maintenance to our ageing stadium; then  raise the playing budget slightly with a focus on the Academy;  and finally other priorities like a new training ground. We have to bear in mind though that its only just over £900k we're talking about just now.

Its important though that the Society continues to attract new members and existing members are encouraged to contribute. Maybe some non members will be encouraged to join now that the Society hasn't tanked, as predicted by some, and the income is now going to the club as opposed to messrs Hutchison and Boyle. I do recall some fans saying that they would never contribute a single penny as long as it would go to paying off these debtors.

[Yorkyred]

It’s also worth remembering that we sell players every season in order to try and break even. We don’t suddenly have a ton a free cash as a good chunk of it offsets expenses.

[supermarv]

So what actually is the script here I thought we announced we were debt free midway through the first half of the season. Should the sale of James Scott mean any other small debts were paid off (£80,000) which leaves us with just approx £920,000 which most likely half will go into the running of the club. Still leaving us with a hefty fee to invest back into the playing squad etc. 

[Kmac]

2 minutes ago, supermarv said:

So what actually is the script here I thought we announced we were debt free midway through the first half of the season. Should the sale of James Scott mean any other small debts were paid off (£80,000) which leaves us with just approx £920,000 which most likely half will go into the running of the club. Still leaving us with a hefty fee to invest back into the playing squad etc. 

Don't hold your breath on that one. 

[fizoxy]

As said above, we rely on selling players to break even and we are way behind other teams when it comes to training facilities, so it would be naive to assume that a chunk of that fee will be available to increase the playing budget significantly.

We need to budget properly, have a safety net, and not go back into debt again.

[Kmcalpin]

47 minutes ago, supermarv said:

So what actually is the script here I thought we announced we were debt free midway through the first half of the season. Should the sale of James Scott mean any other small debts were paid off (£80,000) which leaves us with just approx £920,000 which most likely half will go into the running of the club. Still leaving us with a hefty fee to invest back into the playing squad etc. 

The script is that a handful of fans gave the club a very short term loan of £80K to pay off all outstanding external debts to Les and John Boyle. The club has now repaid that short term loan in full. 

A good explanation is given on P & B. The Society will continue to give the club an annual injection of cash with no expectation that these monies will ever be repaid. So I suppose that could be termed "internal" debt. Jim McMahon said years ago that the club would rely on this continuous annual cash injection from the Society.

[dennyc]

On 12/2/2019 at 4:49 PM, daver said:

Just to be clear, we lost £436k despite selling Kipre?

 

On 12/6/2019 at 6:07 PM, Kmcalpin said:

Our financial year ended on 31 May. As Toxteth says the overall loss was £436k. Transfer income was £780k primarily, but not exclusivley,  from Cedric's transfer. Any transfer fees received after this date ie currently Stuart McKinstry, Reece MacAlear and Jake Hastie will fall into the 2019-20 accounting year. At the end of the 2018-19 year we owed messrs Boyle and Hutchison a total of £617,000, which has now been paid off.  Our outstanding debt is now £80,000 which is expected to be cleared soon, leaving us totally debt free. The playing budget was increased in 2018-19 to the minimum level that the Directors assessed to be necessary to allow us to compete. 

I'm still unsure how we made a loss but still managed to pay off debts to messrs Boyle and Hutchison. I'm no accountant so maybe the answer lies buried in the financial figures somewhere.  Still, the financial outlook seems positive. Some of the above posters will already know from public announcements. 

Just been reading through this thread properly for the first time. Here’s a suggestion.

Incurring a loss at the same time as repaying outstanding debts of £1m seems a bit weird  but maybe  the loss of £436k was effectively on paper only, to ensure no tax liability and produce a loss which could be offset against future or past profits. If we had repaid the debt AFTER the tax year we would  have been in the position of having to pay tax on a profit of around £500k in the tax year.. Roughly about £100k. By being tax clever and repaying the debt before the end of the tax year, I’m guessing the Club have saved a decent amount both now and in the future. Hardly on the scale of Amazon or Starbucks , but all totally legal.

 I’m not an Accountant so that might all be nonsense. But it makes sense to me. Many profitable Business find  ways to reduce profits and therefore tax liability. Good practice.  And the fact The Board do not seem at all bothered by the results might speak volumes. It also gives our Manager good reason to continue pleading poverty and to promote the need for Well Society subscriptions to keep rolling in.

[Winning by Name]

14 minutes ago, dennyc said:

 

Just been reading through this thread properly for the first time. Here’s a suggestion.

Incurring a loss at the same time as repaying outstanding debts of £1m seems a bit weird  but maybe  the loss of £436k was effectively on paper only, to ensure no tax liability and produce a loss which could be offset against future or past profits. If we had repaid the debt AFTER the tax year we would  have been in the position of having to pay tax on a profit of around £500k in the tax year.. Roughly about £100k. By being tax clever and repaying the debt before the end of the tax year, I’m guessing the Club have saved a decent amount both now and in the future. Hardly on the scale of Amazon or Starbucks , but all totally legal.

 I’m not an Accountant so that might all be nonsense. But it makes sense to me. Many profitable Business find  ways to reduce profits and therefore tax liability. Good practice.  And the fact The Board do not seem at all bothered by the results might speak volumes. It also gives our Manager good reason to continue pleading poverty and to promote the need for Well Society subscriptions to keep rolling in.

You make some good points, but as you say you are clearly not an accountant.

[Shaka]

20 hours ago, middleeastdave said:

I think Robinson’s priority is a training ground as he has mentioned many times especially at the AGM in December 2019

Are the Training Facilities that much of a problem? We have Dalziel Park which  gives us fantastic outdoor facilities. Then Ravenscraig when the weather gets bad. Plus the Gym & Astro at the Stadium. 

[weeyin]

14 minutes ago, Shaka said:

Are the Training Facilities that much of a problem? 

According to Robinson and 'Flow, they are in need of a massive upgrade to the extent it can be a bit embarrassing when we are showing them to potential new recruits.