Kmcalpin Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Well, thats what supporting the Well is all about. Shockingly poor first half, great comeback and then the inevitable loss on penalties! We've known for weeks, maybe months, that our defence was very suspect and so last night’s first half debacle should come as no surprise. At the very least anyone who watched us against Accies, Livingston and St Johnstone won’t have been gobsmacked. It also put the Celtic scoreline into perspective. In short the first 45 although dire was no worse than quite a few in the past couple of months, but we did come up against a clinical team last night. The loss of Gallagher was huge both metaphorically and physically and I just don’t get why O’Hara was omitted from the starting line up as he’s been our best midfielder of late. Talk of a 4-3-3- formation puzzled me in the first half. To me, it was more a narrow 4-5-1. St Mirren had us sussed from the off; a high pressing game to pressurise our central defenders and it worked a treat. They crucified us down the deserted wings and Grimshaw (not the only one) had a mare. Gillespie and the central defence were shaky and Carroll wasn’t much better. I really don’t know where Aarons was meant to be playing; certainly not in front of Grimshaw. MacIver looks promising but is out of his depth at the moment. Some positives though. I thought Watt is beginning to look good; O’Hara is impressing us and Donnelly looks far better at the back. Tait too was better than of late when he came on. Lets hope last night was a turning point; like lancing a boil perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellwell91 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 46 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: We've known for weeks, maybe months, that our defence was very suspect and so last night’s first half debacle should come as no surprise. Defensively Gallagher has been covering the defensive frailties of Grimshaw and Hartley for weeks. What happened in the 1st half comes as no surprise when he is missing. Also when is Robinson going to learn that we do not have the midfielders to play against teams a man short in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistAndShout Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 13 hours ago, steelboy said: The January window killed us. Thank you Burrows. Have a day off for fuck sake... I can only assume you are blaming Burrows and Robinson for the recent storms and the outbreak of the Corona Virus, everything else you lay at their door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistAndShout Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 The proverbial game of 2 halves last night. First half was absolutely abysmal, although the 3rd and 4th goals carried some fortune I felt. Hartley backing off his man and deflecting a decent save past Gillespies perhaps ended up with what it deserved though. Mugabe looked lost during the first half, however, he's surely got to have gone down with the head knock he obviously had rather than stagger about. The fact he's gone off immediately after the goal with an eye injury would suggest it was a head knock. Second half was like the alamo and while 2 of the goals were fortunate, that's what sustained pressure will get you. Aarons' goal might not be as lucky as we thought though, how many times do you see that type of goal scored by wingers putting the ball into a dangerous area? There were enough chances created to win it outright, although when we went 4-4 and St Mirren stopped defending quite so deep we looked vulnerable again, but we defended well. That type of defending in the first half would have been nice. The penalties are an annoyance, of the ten players left I'd have banked on Donnelly and Watt scoring for sure. The rest don't give me the impression of confident strikers of a ball. Hylton looked petrified as soon as he left the halfway line and the 2 step run up immediately gave concern. I'd have thought O'Hara and Manzinga might have been better options, even Tait as the captain at that point. The defence for the rest of the season is a worry. Hartley has looked increasingly off the pace since the Accies game for me, Mugabe looked steady enough at first but has quickly proven to be a bombscare. Hopefully Gallagher is over the illness quickly as his influence was blatantly evident last night. Tait will be in at left back if Carroll's injury is as bad as feared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 41 minutes ago, TwistAndShout said: Have a day off for fuck sake... I can only assume you are blaming Burrows and Robinson for the recent storms and the outbreak of the Corona Virus, everything else you lay at their door. Just for weakening the squad in January when we were aiming for Europe and a good cup run. Why? Having to play guys like Manzinga and MacIver is criminal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, TwistAndShout said: Have a day off for fuck sake... I can only assume you are blaming Burrows and Robinson for the recent storms and the outbreak of the Corona Virus, everything else you lay at their door. So is Robinson blameless for last nights fiasco,he picks the team signs the players and before anybody says but look where we are in the league our only chance of winning anything is one of the cups but yet again Robinson fucked up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellwell91 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 21 minutes ago, Yodo said: So is Robinson blameless for last nights fiasco,he picks the team signs the players and before anybody says but look where we are in the league our only chance of winning anything is one of the cups but yet again Robinson fucked up Agreed In the 1st game St Mirren played 4 in the middle of the park, they were never going to change that So you’ve got to think that our 3 are going to match them ( not going to happen) or set up accordingly ( some hope ) Were nearly 2/3rds through the season and still playing the same system. Teams do there homework and we’ve been found wanting in all areas. Did you see the 1st goal ??? The amount of time they had to control the ball and put a decent ball into our box was criminal !!!! BUT that happens week in week out our fullbacks do not close the man down or get close enough to stop the cross This does not happen by accident that is obviously how they are coached AND that is Robinson and Lasley’s fault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistAndShout Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 52 minutes ago, steelboy said: Just for weakening the squad in January when we were aiming for Europe and a good cup run. Why? Having to play guys like Manzinga and MacIver is criminal. Cole was recalled by his parent club. Sloth released which wasn't a surprise to many. James Scott sold for a sizable fee, which I'm guessing is your complaint... He'd scored 3 goals this season so we were hardly losing a Moult or Higdon, as good as Scott was and as much potential as he had. Manzinga and MacIver are the market we operate in and the model we have to work with. Take a chance on young guys and try and sell them on for a profit. Some work out and some don't... MacIver played well last night and Manzinga is still developing. Tony Watt looks to be an improvement on the players we have and he'd fall into the January window category. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Yodo said: So is Robinson blameless for last nights fiasco,he picks the team signs the players and before anybody says but look where we are in the league our only chance of winning anything is one of the cups but yet again Robinson fucked up It falls on Robinson, sure, but Robinson would have probably taken a better penalty than most of our guys last night which was what it came down to. The standard of performance in the first half last night was down to individuals. The manager can't account for 11 players going into a cup replay and putting in a performance that would shame amateurs. Ultimately Robinson can take blame for formation, team selection and transfers but our defeat last night was due to stinking performances not managerial decisions. The changes made by the manager at half time worked. That should be a tick for Robinson but you can't blame him for 4 goals conceded in the first half or the penalty shoot out, they are both out with the managers control. Robinson is going to come under scrutiny after last night because it's now obvious that we need to make tactical and selection changes and the 4-3-3 has run it's course, at least as a default with the players currently available, but let's not pretend that anyone would have picked a radically different side from the available players last night or that a HT scoreline of 1-4 was entirely predictable. I think Robinson has been poor at times over his reign, mainly due too his tactical inflexibility and a loyalty to jobbers but we've only really had two real failures this season, the League Cup exit to Hearts and the Scottish Cup exit last night. The reaction after the League Cup was good. I can't tell you how we react to the latest set back but that's what Robinson should be judged on and I'll state it again. If all we do this season is finish Top 6, that will be a good effort with the players available. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Once again it seems that when we underperform, the entire team gets dragged down and we struggle finding a leader on the pitch to turn it around. I'm not sure a HT score of 1 - 4 was entirely predicable, though. I was expecting a tough game, but not a high scoring one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilwell86 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, TwistAndShout said: The proverbial game of 2 halves last night. First half was absolutely abysmal, although the 3rd and 4th goals carried some fortune I felt. Hartley backing off his man and deflecting a decent save past Gillespies perhaps ended up with what it deserved though. Mugabe looked lost during the first half, however, he's surely got to have gone down with the head knock he obviously had rather than stagger about. The fact he's gone off immediately after the goal with an eye injury would suggest it was a head knock. Second half was like the alamo and while 2 of the goals were fortunate, that's what sustained pressure will get you. Aarons' goal might not be as lucky as we thought though, how many times do you see that type of goal scored by wingers putting the ball into a dangerous area? There were enough chances created to win it outright, although when we went 4-4 and St Mirren stopped defending quite so deep we looked vulnerable again, but we defended well. That type of defending in the first half would have been nice. The penalties are an annoyance, of the ten players left I'd have banked on Donnelly and Watt scoring for sure. The rest don't give me the impression of confident strikers of a ball. Hylton looked petrified as soon as he left the halfway line and the 2 step run up immediately gave concern. I'd have thought O'Hara and Manzinga might have been better options, even Tait as the captain at that point. The defence for the rest of the season is a worry. Hartley has looked increasingly off the pace since the Accies game for me, Mugabe looked steady enough at first but has quickly proven to be a bombscare. Hopefully Gallagher is over the illness quickly as his influence was blatantly evident last night. Tait will be in at left back if Carroll's injury is as bad as feared. in Mugabi's defence he did go down originally, someone mentioned behind me that it looked almost like a punch however I missed it. anyway, he did go down however the ref didn't stop play obviously and i think he has maybe tried to get back up and get back in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, wellwell91 said: In the 1st game St Mirren played 4 in the middle of the park, they were never going to change that So you’ve got to think that our 3 are going to match them ( not going to happen) or set up accordingly ( some hope ) Were nearly 2/3rds through the season and still playing the same system. Teams do there homework and we’ve been found wanting in all areas. Did you see the 1st goal ??? The amount of time they had to control the ball and put a decent ball into our box was criminal !!!! BUT that happens week in week out our fullbacks do not close the man down or get close enough to stop the cross. Agree with most of that but the reason for the first half shocker is down to a combination of wrong managerial decisions and poor individual performances (for several reasons). Many keep referring to a 4-3-3 formation but for much of the first 45 it was a 4-5-1 formation with Watt being isolated. Aarons caused a poor Grimshaw even more problems by continuing to drift into the middle leaving that wing completely unguarded. Whatever formation we are playing it just isn't working and teams have us sussed by playing a high pressing game. Accies will no doubt have been interested observers last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Whatever formation we are playing it just isn't working and teams have us sussed by playing a high pressing game. High pressing games work against most formations, so I'm not sure how you combat that. Just look at the success Liverpool have with their 90 minute press every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 With the nature of Hartley’s removal yesterday, do we think he’s done? Unless he had an injury I’m not sure how you can come back from that. He has seemed to be way off the pace this season, and with his (probably expensive) contract coming up its possible we don’t see him start again. With Dunne probably not quite ready, are any of the reserves ready for the step up? Or did Donnelly look like he could slot in there next to Gallagher longer term? For me the only issue I had with the lineup before the game was not seeing Gallagher there, but that was unavoidable. I had expected mciver to be in based on things Robbo said during the week, but it sounds like he’s not quite ready. I’d agree that the 4-3-3 has run its course. We don’t have the players for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, weeyin said: High pressing games work against most formations, so I'm not sure how you combat that. Just look at the success Liverpool have with their 90 minute press every week. The only way to beat a hight press is to be good on the ball and have plenty of movement in front of you to give you options. Last night it was clear that St Mirren had done their homework and had targetted Hartley and Grimshaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 46 minutes ago, weeyin said: Once again it seems that when we underperform, the entire team gets dragged down and we struggle finding a leader on the pitch to turn it around. I'm not sure a HT score of 1 - 4 was entirely predicable, though. I was expecting a tough game, but not a high scoring one. We had one in the 2nd half. He was wearing no52. If the manager had picked him to start with you have to wonder if the first half would have been quite so desperate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, weeyin said: High pressing games work against most formations, so I'm not sure how you combat that. Just look at the success Liverpool have with their 90 minute press every week. It depends on the players that you have at your disposal. Gillespie's distribution is poor and that puts pressure on the likes of Hartley and Grimshaw, neither of whom can pass. Possible ways around that is for your playmaker i.e. Polworth to drop deep and provide an out ball for the keeper or defenders. Either that or launch the long ball to a well supported target man like Watt. The bottom line is not to get caught dithering on the ball or making hospital passes to colleagues Hartley style. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, TwistAndShout said: Manzinga is still developing. He's 25 years of age... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Probably Stevie Woods best attribute was saving penalties. Sorry but all i can remember of Stevie Woods is that he was shite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, MelvinBragg said: He's 25 years of age... I didn’t realize this until a couple of weeks ago, and being reminded of this still shocks me. I think we should have held fire on the social media content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wispy Flossy Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 There’s much debate of late in terms of our issues at the back and up top, and rightly so. However very little in to our midfield performers. It’s difficult to compete when your three main picks in that position, Campbell Donnelly and polworth form all fell off a cliff at the same time. Donnelly showed last night that he still has a future in defence. So in turnbulls continued absence, we will need Campbell polworth and Ohara to be on it and o’hara currently looks the best bet out of the lot in that respect. Allan Campbell’s recent performances are a major worry for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Away from the game I found it very concerning to see trouble yet again before a game. One of these days someone innocent is going to get hurt. Also for 2nd game in row I had folk in queue going in absolutely steaming yet somehow were allowed in. The vast majority of our fans are magic but there is an element that concerns me and just seem hell bent in ruining our clubs name. If you are not interested in supporting our great club then stay away.....COYW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decorator Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Blakey said: No we didn't. According to soccerbass we beat them on penalties after a 1-1 draw. We eventually went out to Aberdeen in the Quarter Finals. was roasting that day when we won we went to finland in europe after it and stevie woods turned up at the airport with a celtic trackie top on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, Big Wispy Flossy said: However very little in to our midfield performers. It’s difficult to compete when your three main picks in that position, Campbell Donnelly and polworth form all fell off a cliff at the same time. Donnelly showed last night that he still has a future in defence. So in turnbulls continued absence, we will need Campbell polworth and Ohara to be on it and o’hara currently looks the best bet out of the lot in that respect. Allan Campbell’s recent performances are a major worry for me Right now I'd say that O'Hara is our best midfielder and should be an automatic pick. I thought Polworth had a good game throughout last night although his set pieces were poor. I'd move Donnelly back into defence. Campbell looks burnt out and badly needs 2/3 weeks rest. Could young Dean Cornelius come in and do a job now, if only from the bench? We'll certainly need someone to put the shackles on Gogic on Saturday. Unfortunately Jamie Semple is injured. To answer Fizoxy's question about young defenders I don't know. Certainly we have immediate short term defensive problems. Maguire is returning from injury and may be fit but can he step up to play in midfield or central defence? Does Robbo rate him? David Devine is on loan at QoS could he be recalled? Hussain is rated I think but is he ready to step up now? Maybe someone with a knowledge of the youth team could offer us some informed opinions on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyMax Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 21 hours ago, Andy H said: Unleash the Seedorf :p Why did I think Pulp Fiction, Bring Out The Gimp.......when you posted that ??? Unleash The Seedorf... But he's sleepin' Well, go wake him up..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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