To Furlough or not to Furlough that is the Q

[Welldaft Mk1]

I think we all agree that our wee club and CEO are very good at communicating with the fan base. 

Now that even the mighty and wealthy Liverpool FC and other top flights clubs have furloughed staff and many cases players what are MFC doing ? 

Clearly with James Scott money and additional league money we are in a more stable position. I am personally not a fan of rich clubs and players who earn millions taking money from the Govt- but I feel we have do similar. Every penny counts and as selfish as it is I do not want competitors gaining a financial advantage regardless of all the real shit going on around us. 

I would assume the club are actively discussing options, but I have not yet seen any comments in press or elsewhere. 
 

[steelboy]

I don't think anyone is furloughing players. I'm not even sure if you can as they are contractors?

[santheman]

6 minutes ago, steelboy said:

I don't think anyone is furloughing players. I'm not even sure if you can as they are contractors?

Official line from HMRC  

 

[CoF]

They went into a bit of detail on this on Sportsound earlier. As Santheman has said, it is open to players however only if the club do not have any work for you to do (and would otherwise be making you redundant). This includes generating revenue or marketing. So players who are still doing promotional bits for the club or community stuff (phoning round elderly fans) wouldn't be eligible for Furlogh. 

I've not really thought about our club doing it, however I do find it repulsive that businesses who operate in the hundreds of millions (not just football clubs) are applying to the Government for it. It's not free money - it'll just be lumped into the national debt which we'll all be paying back in higher taxes for years. 

[ropy]

Clubs have talked about furloughing staff but making up their wages, surely that can’t happen because if you are paying them 20% then that is reduced wages which excludes you from the furlough scheme?

[Lobey_Dosser]

4 minutes ago, ropy said:

Clubs have talked about furloughing staff but making up their wages, surely that can’t happen because if you are paying them 20% then that is reduced wages which excludes you from the furlough scheme?

Nah, companies are entitled to top up the Govt contribution to cover 100% of wages. What an employer can’t do is reduce hours/salary then ask Govt to pay 80% of it. 

If clubs opt to furlough players, it means they effectively go into cold storage. No club led training regimes, no appearances on club media, no phoning fans etc. Aberdeen have opted not to go down this route as McInness wants him and his coaching team to retain contact with the squad. They are obviously in a far stronger financial position than most Scottish clubs though...

[Kmcalpin]

Dundee United are doing this. No surprise there then.

[David]

On 4/4/2020 at 3:46 PM, CoF said:

I've not really thought about our club doing it, however I do find it repulsive that businesses who operate in the hundreds of millions (not just football clubs) are applying to the Government for it. It's not free money - it'll just be lumped into the national debt which we'll all be paying back in higher taxes for years. 

This is a key point. I keep hearing people talking about "the government paying" this and that. 

The government have fuck all money. It's the public's money. It's our tax money.

[underboyleheating]

I’d  play Furlough at left back.  Ah wait a minute. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

1 hour ago, David said:

This is a key point. I keep hearing people talking about "the government paying" this and that. 

The government have fuck all money. It's the public's money. It's our tax money.

This is my point all along. 

If I am still in a job in a few months time I will be prepared and expect to pay an extra few % over the next how ever many years to help pay back the money that the gov will have borrowed. 

But by Christ I will be happier paying it if Motherwell FC were beneficiaries along with almost all other clubs in the top flight. So far as I can make out we are one of the few clubs that have not discussed their intentions around furloughing staff and players. 

[wellwell91]

1 hour ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

This is my point all along. 

If I am still in a job in a few months time I will be prepared and expect to pay an extra few % over the next how ever many years to help pay back the money that the gov will have borrowed. 

But by Christ I will be happier paying it if Motherwell FC were beneficiaries along with almost all other clubs in the top flight. So far as I can make out we are one of the few clubs that have not discussed their intentions around furloughing staff and players. 

These clubs have got to apply for it ………and it’s being done via HMRC ………… not certain that they will get it 

[Welldaft Mk1]

Any update on this Q ? 

I have just seen the Chairman’s update and no mention of our intentions in this regard. I am quite sure that most if not all clubs in top flight have told their fans and media what they are planning. 

Normally the stock answer would be none of our business but as a fan owned club it absolutely is our business. 

We are being asked to renew season tickets which I have done as have 1000 or so others.  But the income raised would be 100% wiped out from 2-3 months cost of paying salaries in full whilst other clubs in the top flight are utilising the Gov scheme. 

 

[0Neils40yarder]

3 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Any update on this Q ? 

I have just seen the Chairman’s update and no mention of our intentions in this regard. I am quite sure that most if not all clubs in top flight have told their fans and media what they are planning. 

Normally the stock answer would be none of our business but as a fan owned club it absolutely is our business. 

We are being asked to renew season tickets which I have done as have 1000 or so others.  But the income raised would be 100% wiped out from 2-3 months cost of paying salaries in full whilst other clubs in the top flight are utilising the Gov scheme. 

 

I have no idea why they haven't furloughed their non-playing staff, but at the same time put season tickets on sale.... I'm maybe looking at it too simplistically, but when multi-million pound corporations are furloughing thousands of people, you'd think a wee club like ours would benefit from it also. 

[wellwell91]

22 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Any update on this Q ? 

I have just seen the Chairman’s update and no mention of our intentions in this regard. I am quite sure that most if not all clubs in top flight have told their fans and media what they are planning. 

Normally the stock answer would be none of our business but as a fan owned club it absolutely is our business. 

We are being asked to renew season tickets which I have done as have 1000 or so others.  But the income raised would be 100% wiped out from 2-3 months cost of paying salaries in full whilst other clubs in the top flight are utilising the Gov scheme. 

 

Are they ……… this is being done through HMRC taking into account NI number and PAYE returns 

A lot of footballers have very funny set ups about how their tax is payed especially the ones earning big bucks

Think a few football clubs will be told to get to France when they try to claim this money 

[dennyc]

I would not restrict it to non playing staff. 40 employees from whatever group equates to a maximum £100k a month. We are effectively giving Clubs such as Livi and Dundee Utd that much of an advantage each month this lasts. And there are more than those two Clubs. Those teams' fans know that any Season Ticket monies they provide now are being used in other important areas. Not going to an area that could be covered elsewhere.

I know that many will disagree on principle. But these are hard times and our Club needs to be business like and prioritise our needs. If an option that helps is available, then use it. Others are. We are not Spurs, who made over a £100m profit last year and can afford to (eventually) dispense with Furloughing. At least for a few months.  I would hope though that we would make up the additional 20% as long as financially possible.

Then again. maybe they have furloughed some Staff. I don't think anybody has confirmed one way or another. 

[Big Wispy Flossy]

I thought we’d applied it to playing and non-playing staff

[steelboy]

The issue with furloughing players is that we can't issue them diets or training plans. If we furloughed them they could come back a stone overweight and we would just need to accept it.

I don't think our current squad would rip the piss but I think with our ownership model they will be reluctant to furlough players while expecting them to stay fit. On the other hand I've no doubt that some clubs *cough* Livi *cough* Accies will be furloughing but still illegally keeping tabs on their players. 

 

[David]

On 4/21/2020 at 4:02 PM, steelboy said:

The issue with furloughing players is that we can't issue them diets or training plans. If we furloughed them they could come back a stone overweight and we would just need to accept it.

Not sure how many (if any) folk here subscribe to The Athletic sports journalism website? Anyway, it has quite a long article about Robinson being possibly the most overachieving manager in the UK.

Interesting that the writer, Jack Pitt-Brooke (nope, I've never heard of him in Scottish football terms either) claims that "Robinson, and his chief scout Martin Foyle are the only two members of staff who haven't been furloughed."

The article also states that "strength and conditioning coach Andy Boles has been placed on temporary leave so is not allowed to communicate with the players, which means Robinson has to make sure they are following Boles's plans to stay fit."

Apparently Robbo is monitoring the players via Strava.

[Andy_P]

If the claim is correct then it would seem have several apparently fourloughed players creating training programmes which are being filmed, edited and uploaded by apparently  furloughed members of the comms team.

[David]

10 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

If the claim is correct then it would seem have several apparently fourloughed players creating training programmes which are being filmed, edited and uploaded by apparently  furloughed members of the comms team.

I took from the article that the writer was meaning staff outside of the players. As for the uploads, I've seen other companies that aren't football-related claim that they have management uploading certain social media content on a voluntary basis.

Complete bollocks, of course, but I doubt there's going to be any way of really disproving it.

[Onthefringes]

6 hours ago, Andy_P said:

If the claim is correct then it would seem have several apparently fourloughed players creating training programmes which are being filmed, edited and uploaded by apparently  furloughed members of the comms team.

Oh, it’s definitely not correct.

[David]

33 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Oh, it’s definitely not correct.

Then for some reason the club are providing false information by the looks of it. The writer will only be going on the information provided to him.

[Kmcalpin]

32 minutes ago, David said:

Then for some reason the club are providing false information by the looks of it. The writer will only be going on the information provided to him.

Not necessarily. The author has not named his source and we have no way of verifying it.  It’s most unlikely that the club has put out false information. I think you’re rash and hasty in coming to that conclusion.

[David]

13 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Not necessarily. The author has not named his source and we have no way of verifying it.  It’s most unlikely that the club has put out false information. I think you’re rash and hasty in coming to that conclusion.

The author has been very specific in naming Robinson and Martin Foyle, which I found surprising. He's obviously been told that by someone, hasn't he? I doubt he'd pluck Foyle's name out of thin air. 

[weeyin]

11 hours ago, David said:

The author has been very specific in naming Robinson and Martin Foyle, which I found surprising. He's obviously been told that by someone, hasn't he? I doubt he'd pluck Foyle's name out of thin air. 

It doesn't mean the story came from the club, though. Sadly, the days of journalists only publishing an article when they have 2 independently confirmed sources are long gone; especially on the internet.

Onthefringes has consistently proved to be a much more reliable source.