2020/21 Transfer Discussion Thread

[Kmac]

9 minutes ago, fizoxy said:

It seems the rest of the league are in the same position as us, with most teams making pretty underwhelming signings or none at all. I'm trying to think of a player that's signed elsewhere that I wish we'd got first. Jackson Irvine to hibs maybe, but we're never going to compete with them on wages. It also doesn't matter how much money we have if players just don't want to come here, which is enough of a problem when there isn't a pandemic.

Kelly has been a good signing, and we can't judge the other 3 until we see them play for us. If you look back at previous January windows, the successful signings were all unknowns at the time. I hope we're not done strengthening, but I wouldn't be surprised if we are. I'm more worried about keeping our players at this stage. 

Agree with much of what you say however, I don’t think we should judge ourselves by the others around us. I’ve been pretty consistent in advocating that we act like what we are, which is the 7th largest club in the country. We’ve been enveloped by a malaise IMO and quickly approaching the stage where I couldn’t differentiate many our players from livi, (whom I have massive respect for) st Mirren (about as yoyo as it gets) or even accies. Last night, we had a situation of people touting Isaiah Jones in the “could do a job” category, when the guy was headed to Palmerston, so clearly the level of acceptability is lower than I assumed. Yes, we had a good and badly needed result in dingwall but one swallow doesn’t make a summer and I’d be extremely surprised if we don’t head into the split needing to pick up points. 
With our ownership model, relegation would be disastrous and with such little time left, it seems extremely unlikely that there will be any/enough players coming into the club at a level which will dispel those worries.

[Stu92]

3 hours ago, fizoxy said:

We may not have the option to terminate the loan.  Also, if he's cheap there's no harm in having a backup. 

From memory, Rangers had the option to recall him in January. Which is different to us being able to send him back. I’d suspect that we are playing a smaller percentage of his wage if we are not able to terminate the deal. 

[ropy]

1 hour ago, Kmac said:

With our ownership model, relegation would be disastrous and with such little time left, it seems extremely unlikely that there will be any/enough players coming into the club at a level which will dispel those worries.

Anyone getting relegated this year is likely to have a £1M warchest in their account.

[Yorkyred]

2 hours ago, Kmac said:

With less than 48 hours to go, you can’t help but feeling entirely underwhelmed by the business we have done. There’s no significant increase in quality as yet (yes, lawleff is better than seedorf but who isn’t). IMO we went into this window needing a minimum 3/4 players of significant superior quality to what we have - bodies that would come straight  into the first 11. Not only to help us escape a relegation battle but to also galvanize the support and give us a backbone as we heads into a summer whereby we stand to loose 3-4 of our bigger names (though arguably some of the poorer  performers recently). Lawleff was / is always/should be a squad player, Smith seems decent but again isn’t a focal point or a nailed on starter  and Foley is somewhat of a baffling signing given he’s 34, hardly kicked a ball all season and is on a short term deal. We could have/should have invested in this window however I can’t help but feel we’re doing the absolute minimum as a club to hopefully squeeze out a 10th placed finish.  The abundance of dead wood remains, to be cleared in the summer.
All of which amounts to the most monumental rebuild I can remember, with the distinct possibility of an almost unrecognizable starting 11 next season - that doesn’t hold much hope for a team that might be chasing promotion. 

Kelly is a very good signing, Lawless has actually been a member of two teams that have finished in the top six so decent for me, Smith I’m unsure about but Foley could end up a very good signing in my view, experienced and rated by St Mirren supporters. I think we need to accept January is a tough time to bring in really good players, other clubs don’t want to let them go.

[supermarv]

13 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Despite the fanfare, unlikely our development players will be called upon.

Well aware of current predicament & the need for experience before anybody starts. Introduction of our prospects has many variables - would help if the management knew the kids names or even conversed with them.

The vast majority of what’s left all train with the first team? I’m pretty sure they’ll know there names. Semple seemed to be the next big thing to come through and was hoping he’d do well at Cove this year but not quite happened for him. Kind of been shipped about positions as he was a striker and out wide then last year when Ross came in he started playing in the middle of the park. 

[supermarv]

We played a bounce game yesterday against Accies with the fringe players so hopefully that will determine who stays and what else is required.

[0Neils40yarder]

2 hours ago, Kmac said:

With less than 48 hours to go, you can’t help but feeling entirely underwhelmed by the business we have done. There’s no significant increase in quality as yet (yes, lawleff is better than seedorf but who isn’t). IMO we went into this window needing a minimum 3/4 players of significant superior quality to what we have - bodies that would come straight  into the first 11. Not only to help us escape a relegation battle but to also galvanize the support and give us a backbone as we heads into a summer whereby we stand to loose 3-4 of our bigger names (though arguably some of the poorer  performers recently). Lawleff was / is always/should be a squad player, Smith seems decent but again isn’t a focal point or a nailed on starter  and Foley is somewhat of a baffling signing given he’s 34, hardly kicked a ball all season and is on a short term deal. We could have/should have invested in this window however I can’t help but feel we’re doing the absolute minimum as a club to hopefully squeeze out a 10th placed finish.  The abundance of dead wood remains, to be cleared in the summer.
All of which amounts to the most monumental rebuild I can remember, with the distinct possibility of an almost unrecognizable starting 11 next season - that doesn’t hold much hope for a team that might be chasing promotion. 

I'm trying hard to come up with a more concise response to this, but I cannae be arsed...so I'm just going to go with...

...'what a load of shite'

[Onthefringes]

47 minutes ago, supermarv said:

The vast majority of what’s left all train with the first team? I’m pretty sure they’ll know there names. Semple seemed to be the next big thing to come through and was hoping he’d do well at Cove this year but not quite happened for him. Kind of been shipped about positions as he was a striker and out wide then last year when Ross came in he started playing in the middle of the park. 

OK. Pretty sure. Like you knew for a fact contract details, that may or may not have been correct?

There is far more to the story. Get your source on to it.

 

[KirkySuperSub]

So what is the story?

It's a strong allegation that the management team - (are we talking the old one or new one btw?) - don't take any interest in the youth players at all.

I wouldn't expect day-to-day communication or anything like that, but the allegation here that there is literally nothing seems a tad unbelievable, or at least unacceptable if proven to be true.

[Great Balls of Shire]

17 hours ago, Shaka said:

Underwhelmed by Foley. If he was decent why isnt he in the St Midden team & why have they given him to a supposed direct rival?

That being said, he had pedigree and brings experience, and he cant be any worse than some of the shite here. 

I take it Crawford is away back to Livvy. Cant understand any reason for us not doing so with Foley in and Donnelly due back soon

Just cos he’s 34 , it would be folly to write off Foley. 

[supermarv]

23 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

OK. Pretty sure. Like you knew for a fact contract details, that may or may not have been correct?

There is far more to the story. Get your source on to it.

 

What story? Enlighten me please. You had no response for me so you then go back to the contract details, and since you seem to be pretty much “ITK” then you’ll know Dunne’s contract is very much on reduced terms similar to Tanners last season... However the contract details is totally irrelevant to this so called “story” about management, it’s literally 2 new guys with 2 previous still there so it’s not a total overhaul, also Ross has managed most the players last 18 months or so.

[Onthefringes]

28 minutes ago, supermarv said:

What story? Enlighten me please. You had no response for me so you then go back to the contract details, and since you seem to be pretty much “ITK” then you’ll know Dunne’s contract is very much on reduced terms similar to Tanners last season... However the contract details is totally irrelevant to this so called “story” about management, it’s literally 2 new guys with 2 previous still there so it’s not a total overhaul, also Ross has managed most the players last 18 months or so.

The reply to you was ‘OK. Pretty sure’. The reference to your knowledge of players contract was a general ideal that most statements you make have little substance no matter how many times you repeat yourself.

I’ve asked you before, leave the ITK part out. Never once claimed to be such. Information is usually sound & checks out by various before I offer anything, cryptic or not.

In reply to both yourself and KirkySuperSub... it’s called discretion. Source may well require protection - some  things are just best served not being made public.

In reply to both yourself and KirkySuperSub... it’s called discretion.

Story linked to old and new management.

Tad unbelievable? In what way? ‘Cause Alexander and his assistant have offered comment on our youth development?

Few people hopeful the window will be extended for lower league clubs, perhaps allowing those who’s development was deemed to be better served in and around our first team some opportunity for game time. Unprecedented times, no reserve football has meant many kicking their heels for a year in a crucial stage of development. There’s variables on that also like percentage of wage covered.

As for Accies yesterday, not that result is important - how did the midfield pairing of Foley & Hastie perform in the 1 nil defeat?

Before you start, fully aware it was correct to introduce our new signing. Another out injured...

[Kmac]

1 hour ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

I'm trying hard to come up with a more concise response to this, but I cannae be arsed...so I'm just going to go with...

...'what a load of shite'

Which part exactly? The part about us not bringing in clear starters or the part about us being potentially relegated? Or maybe it was the part about us not clearly investing despite posting profits and knowingly having 3-4 million in player money and European prize money in the next financial year? We’ve moved on 1 player that was signed as a number 9 and brought in 3 as replacement.

[KirkySuperSub]

I've only recently started commenting on here after a lengthy self imposed exile, but I think I'll refrain from getting involved in all the cryptic shite in future, not worth the hassle.

I fully get the discretion part, I'm not expecting names or anything, but to strongly allege at a problem within the club with regards to the management teams interest in the club's youth players or system, then baulk completely at the first very post asking for any explanation of sorts, seems to beg the question why make any sort of comment in the first place?

Not having a dig, or starting an argument btw...

[Onthefringes]

1 minute ago, KirkySuperSub said:

I've only recently started commenting on here after a lengthy self imposed exile, but I think I'll refrain from getting involved in all the cryptic shite in future, not worth the hassle.

I fully get the discretion part, I'm not expecting names or anything, but to strongly allege at a problem within the club with regards to the management teams interest in the club's youth players or system, then baulk completely at the first very post asking for any explanation of sorts, seems to beg the question why make any sort of comment in the first place?

Not having a dig, or starting an argument btw...

That’s fair comment also.

[supermarv]

20 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

The reply to you was ‘OK. Pretty sure’. The reference to your knowledge of players contract was a general ideal that most statements you make have little substance no matter how many times you repeat yourself.

I’ve asked you before, leave the ITK part out. Never once claimed to be such. Information is usually sound & checks out by various before I offer anything, cryptic or not.

In reply to both yourself and KirkySuperSub... it’s called discretion. Source may well require protection - some  things are just best served not being made public.

In reply to both yourself and KirkySuperSub... it’s called discretion.

Story linked to old and new management.

Tad unbelievable? In what way? ‘Cause Alexander and his assistant have offered comment on our youth development?

Few people hopeful the window will be extended for lower league clubs, perhaps allowing those who’s development was deemed to be better served in and around our first team some opportunity for game time. Unprecedented times, no reserve football has meant many kicking their heels for a year in a crucial stage of development. There’s variables on that also like percentage of wage covered.

As for Accies yesterday, not that result is important - how did the midfield pairing of Foley & Hastie perform in the 1 nil defeat?

Before you start, fully aware it was correct to introduce our new signing. Another out injured...

I’ve said it many times I feel as though if the likes of Cornelius and Devine and the rest are to have a future at the club like many think they should need minutes here or elsewhere. I’ll admit I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Maguire the other night (my MOTM) not an amazing prospect but he’s decent. Back to the original point though I feel sorry for the youngsters as they are literally there to make up the numbers on match day and training with no minutes whatsoever, it’s a difficult year for them as theres no reserve team either and not enough players to have reserve games and a bounce game is very rare. So the best thing for them is a loan move to prove there worth as GA and the rest may not think they are ready or good enough.

I disagree with you though as I think you mean “when have you heard Alexander mention youth” but I recall in his very first interview he touches on it and he’ll be told that’s a requirement for our managerial position to bring through X amount of players in Y years. 
 

You more than me as I didn’t even know the score or lineups etc just “fringe players”. Nothing about an injury either (as long as it’s not a keeper) so it’s hardly breaking discretion if it’s an injury so if you feel free to tell us then great. What I do know is Seedorf may not be here for much longer though.

[Onthefringes]

11 minutes ago, Kmac said:

Which part exactly? The part about us not bringing in clear starters or the part about us being potentially relegated? Or maybe it was the part about us not clearly investing despite posting profits and knowingly having 3-4 million in player money and European prize money in the next financial year? We’ve moved on 1 player that was signed as a number 9 and brought in 3 as replacement.

Think you need to reign in expectations. Shangri-La isn’t a real place. To think anything else will leave some disappointed.

Our type of investment in the short term is how we deal with current climate. I’d surmise Scottish football has yet to see the full effect of COVID & that includes the big two.

There is zero guarantee a raising of the bar will set us above the current level.

I get the lack of inspiration in our signings. I’ve mentioned elsewhere that it’s hard to tell what they’re trying to do based on the signings, it’s an easy buy into them though for now.

[Onthefringes]

13 minutes ago, supermarv said:

I’ve said it many times I feel as though if the likes of Cornelius and Devine and the rest are to have a future at the club like many think they should need minutes here or elsewhere. I’ll admit I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Maguire the other night (my MOTM) not an amazing prospect but he’s decent. Back to the original point though I feel sorry for the youngsters as they are literally there to make up the numbers on match day and training with no minutes whatsoever, it’s a difficult year for them as theres no reserve team either and not enough players to have reserve games and a bounce game is very rare. So the best thing for them is a loan move to prove there worth as GA and the rest may not think they are ready or good enough.

I disagree with you though as I think you mean “when have you heard Alexander mention youth” but I recall in his very first interview he touches on it and he’ll be told that’s a requirement for our managerial position to bring through X amount of players in Y years. 
 

You more than me as I didn’t even know the score or lineups etc just “fringe players”. Nothing about an injury either (as long as it’s not a keeper) so it’s hardly breaking discretion if it’s an injury so if you feel free to tell us then great. What I do know is Seedorf may not be here for much longer though.

So why were some lined up for loan spells to then not be, then lined up again for same scenario to happen again? Some were deemed ‘first team ready’... ideal time to offer minutes was when we blew County & Livingston away in consecutive weeks - we introduced Robbie Crawford who couldn’t feature against his parent club the following week yet, that was lauded by some on here.

Disagree all you want on the youth take. Granted, Alexander will offer comment like he did as the development of youth would be a pre-requisite. Actions speak louder than words & I’ve been made aware that all is not as it’s made out to be. As simple as that.

Lawless wasn’t featuring due injury. 

[weeyin]

To be fair, if I was the new gaffer charged with getting the first team sorted out, punting dead wood and trying to bring in new players all in the space of 10 days, the academy and the youth players would be low priority.

Job number one is to make sure we aren't relegated. Job number two is "see job number one".

 

[Onthefringes]

3 minutes ago, weeyin said:

To be fair, if I was the new gaffer charged with getting the first team sorted out, punting dead wood and trying to bring in new players all in the space of 10 days, the academy and the youth players would be low priority.

Job number one is to make sure we aren't relegated. Job number two is "see job number one".

Not the point being made at all.

[supermarv]

13 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

So why were some lined up for loan spells to then not be, then lined up again for same scenario to happen again? Some were deemed ‘first team ready’... ideal time to offer minutes was when we blew County & Livingston away in consecutive weeks - we introduced Robbie Crawford who couldn’t feature against his parent club the following week yet, that was lauded by some on here.

Disagree all you want on the youth take. Granted, Alexander will offer comment like he did as the development of youth would be a pre-requisite. Actions speak louder than words & I’ve been made aware that all is not as it’s made out to be. As simple as that.

Lawless wasn’t featuring due injury. 

I don’t know maybe they haven’t progressed enough or showed enough in training same as any other player who can’t get minutes? I couldn’t tell you but as said again I feel sorry them as it’s horrid year to be in there position, when they could be out getting minutes. At the moment there jersey fillers and from the start of the season under both management it’s been clear they haven’t made an impact on the first team, and looks likely that won’t change. 

Alexander has been brought in to take us out the relegation zone and keep us up simple as that, is he going to throw in youngsters just to appease fans constant love of youth players getting played who may or may not be good enough, and have relegation from the SPFL on his CV I think not. As long as they are in and around the team all they can do is prove to the manager their better than what’s in front of them. 

[gdalli10]

It would be quite funny if Marv and Fringes knew each other and didn’t realise it.

 

I quite enjoy the snippets of “in the know” information, so keep them coming both of you please.

[KirkySuperSub]

7 minutes ago, gdalli10 said:

It would be quite funny if Marv and Fringes knew each other and didn’t realise it.

 

I quite enjoy the snippets of “in the know” information, so keep them coming both of you please.

Live next door to each other, typing furiously at each others posts, only a few feet apart through a dividing wall...

[Kmac]

1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

Think you need to reign in expectations. Shangri-La isn’t a real place. To think anything else will leave some disappointed.

Our type of investment in the short term is how we deal with current climate. I’d surmise Scottish football has yet to see the full effect of COVID & that includes the big two.

There is zero guarantee a raising of the bar will set us above the current level.

I get the lack of inspiration in our signings. I’ve mentioned elsewhere that it’s hard to tell what they’re trying to do based on the signings, it’s an easy buy into them though for now.

Ahh, okay. I didn’t realize asking for ambition and aspiration was now ‘a load of shite’. 
Noted 

[Yorkyred]

24 minutes ago, Kmac said:

Ahh, okay. I didn’t realize asking for ambition and aspiration was now ‘a load of shite’. 
Noted 

I think the vast majority of football clubs in Scotland are simply making sure they survive just now, any real ambition will probably be re evaluated when we all get through the pandemic. Even then I can’t see anything other than trying to balance the books while staying in the division. I know Robinson and Foyle took stick for signing players from the lower leagues down south but anyone that thinks that’s going to change under Alexander had better prepare themselves for disappointment. I think there will be quite a gap between what some supporters would like to see and the actual reality.