Season 2020'21: Game 1 Ross County (A)

[FirParkCornerExile]

2 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

You can only attack corners if the delivery is good !!!

Polworths delivery last was woeful 

The set piece deliveries into the area were woeful. How difficult is it to NOT put a floaty ball straight into the keepers hands.

[wellwell91]

2 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

The set piece deliveries into the area were woeful. How difficult is it to NOT put a floaty ball straight into the keepers hands.

Correct and it inevitably lead to Lang being sent off with the throw from the goalkeeper taking 8 of our players out of the game  leaving only Grimmy at the back and Lang obviously decided that he was going to get skinned and did what he did.

If Campbell was not carrying an injury Robinson has serious questions to answer re his team selection … … 

[Ya Bezzer!]

2 hours ago, Blue3 said:

The Lang sending off was very clumsy unessasary it was only just over the half way line and the player still had a wall of Motherwell players in front of him, no idea why Lang made the challenge Which deserved a clumsy yellow not a stright violent conduct red.

Part of the game is knowing when not to make a challenge.  When players make these sort  of challenges when it's completely unnecessary it actually really irritates me.

It wasn't a red for violent conduct but some times I think players deserve red cards just for stupidity.

[gee]

Hopefully we learned last night we need wingers on the wing and a midfield 3 of Turnbull/Polworth, O’Hara/Donnelly and always Alan Campbell. 

Are Donnelly and O’Hara genuine options at right back? Has anyone seen them play there? Grimshaw really struggled last night. 

We have so many options up front but really just need someone who will bury a chance like we served up last night. 
 

 

[ohwulliewullie]

Nothing like a match like last night to kick you in the stones at the start of the season - missed sitters, missed penalty, missed challenge... and Allan Campbell just missed.

[wellwell91]

3 minutes ago, gee said:

Hopefully we learned last night we need wingers on the wing and a midfield 3 of Turnbull/Polworth, O’Hara/Donnelly and always Alan Campbell. 

Are Donnelly and O’Hara genuine options at right back? Has anyone seen them play there? Grimshaw really struggled last night. 

We have so many options up front but really just need someone who will bury a chance like we served up last night. 
 

 

Also that Long cannot play as a long striker … … so if it 2 wingers( playing in their natural positions )it has to be Whyte/Watt

Think O’Hara has played at right back previously 

McGinley is a centre half playing at left back and as you say we’ve not had a proper right back for over a season now

Agree with you regarding the midfield 

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Neilwell86 said:

hopefully we see two WINGERS on saturday, with a midfield involving Turnbull and Campbell.

IF we field 2 wingers on Saturday then we have to play with a pairing of Watt/White/Long up front i.e. a 4-4-2 formation or start with either Watt or White on their own up front but not Long (just seen your post WEllwell91 after posting myself)

Looking back on last night I just wonder if our disrupted pre season led to a lack of preparation? I had thought that Robbo would have tried to give his preferred 11 a 90 minutes run out beforehand to iron out any snags or issues or finalise experiments. Maybe he was like a kid in a toyshop; just too many players from which to choose a starting 11.  Certainly he overthought things.  Anyway lets hope we don't repeat organisational mistakes from last night or indeed last season. 

Right back? Maybe time to test Donnelly there or give young Dean Cornelius his much overdue chance.

[steelboy]

3 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

 

Looking back on last night I just wonder if our disrupted pre season led to a lack of preparation? I had thought that Robbo would have tried to give his preferred 11 a 90 minutes run out beforehand to iron out any snags or issues or finalise experiments. Maybe he was like a kid in a toyshop; just too many players from which to choose a starting 11.  Certainly he overthought things.  Anyway lets hope we don't repeat organisational mistakes from last night or indeed last season. 

There was nothing to stop him giving the core players more minutes. It was his choice and clearly a poor one.

[Ya Bezzer!]

One of Robinson's biggest flaws is his complete inability to mould a balanced squad.

There is always too much of this, not enough of that.

[Stu92]

I feel like the possession and shots stats are a bit misleading, as for the most part we didn't do much of note and RC were happy to sit in and soak it up. Dead balls were poor barring one or two corners, and the decision not to play never mind start Campbell is a weird one (hopefully carrying a minor knock, and not anything more sinister like an imminent transfer...)

Having said all of that, we controlled most of the game. Gallagher will win us more points than he loses us over the course of the season, we're not going to give away daft penalties on the regular. We're also not going to miss penalties on the regular. The defence was totally untroubled all night, and McGinley looks like he may be able to offer something going forward and give Carroll a good bit of competition. The red card was also incorrect in my opinion, not sure if we will appeal it but I did think Lang looked very promising. Seedorf was also looking very good when he came on - despite what some others have said on here, you're an outright liar if you think he should have started as he was totally ineffective for 90% of last year regardless of what side he played on. Also worth bearing in mind he was up against an 18 year old debutant who had played an hour of football more than he had, be interested to see if he is as good against more established defenders when on from the start.  

All in all, I'm still fairly optimistic for the season ahead. Turnbull needs to be central, and Campbell needs to play. He's maybe not as mobile as Grimmy but I'd even look at moving Donnelly to RB to accommodate it as our distribution down that side was poor last night. Not a fan of the inverted winger when teams don't come on to us and leave space in behind, I'd be quite happy dropping Hastie to play Long/Watt through the middle with DT in behind pinging through balls for them. I'd rather play with no wingers than having a lop-sided team that is totally ineffective out wide.

[Wishielad]

12 hours ago, 2/6 tae get in said:

Dead on with the throw in comment.

I haven't seen a Well player take advantage of throw ins since Andy Walker: he always found space and was available for them. BvB under Klopp showed how to profit from throw-ins. Ours are, almost always, a wasted opportunity.

[Ya Bezzer!]

20 minutes ago, Stu92 said:

I feel like the possession and shots stats are a bit misleading, as for the most part we didn't do much of note and RC were happy to sit in and soak it up.

After Celtic, we had the highest amount of possession in a game and the most shots in a game.  Good.  Then you get to shots on target and we were second worst.

1 shot on target out of 15 is awful.  

I have to say I'm not convinced of our strikers ability in front of goal.  We don't have anyone you could really have any confidence will score you a goal going into a game, no Moult, no Coyne, no Higdon etc.

Looks we need to get the shooting practice in.

[Spit_It_Out]

I would play a 442 with Seedorf and Hastie on the wings Turnbull and Campbell in the middle.Donnelly dropped he looks like he can't get any slower,White and Watt up front Long looks like he is really not fit.Thought all the new boys done decent apart from Lang as he has banged on since he arrived how experienced he was for his years well that was a total fudd move and pretty inexperienced.

[numpty]

20 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I have to say I'm not convinced of our strikers ability in front of goal.  We don't have anyone you could really have any confidence will score you a goal going into a game, no Moult, no Coyne, no Higdon etc.

Callum Lang had better shots-on-target stats than any of our forwards last year. He certainly arsed up his chance last night, but he certainly has the potential to knock them in given the chance. (I'm aware that "shots on target" does not equal "goals", of course.)

[ropy]

If it was only Tait on the end of the header that was missed.

[joewarkfanclub]

Lots to digest.

Robbo clearly got the starting selection wrong. We looked unbalanced from the off and it cost us the first 20 mins. I get that we have so many options now in midfield and up front, but not one of us would have David Turnbull anywhere other than in the middle controlling the game. He is our best player. Play him where he is most effective. To be fair to Robbo, he did change it around and we looked much better 2nd half.

I dont agree with those that say DT and Polworth cant play together. They are both good footballers and if both played centrally they will easily find ways to break teams down. Against better teams though we may have to drop one for a more defensive player.

Those criticising the defence. Other than the penalty and the shot that hit the bar, Im struggling to think of any clear cut chances Ross County created? Certainly 2nd half there was next to nothing. I share everyones concerns re Grimmy, much as he is a great guy, he will cost us at right back and we do need to try someone else in there. Donnelly, OHara? The manager does aslo leave himself open for criticism for not getting in a replacement after Tait chose to leave. However, the rest of the defence looked fairly solid to me. Lamie looks an upgrade on Hartley. He is certainly more mobile and his distribution is better. Positioning needs a little work but thats to be expected in a new team. McGinley for me did great after a shaky start and grew into the game. At 23, he has time on his side to improve.

Midfield/Upfront, surprised to see no Campbell. Hopefully he is not offski as we will need him going forward. But Donnelly and OHara are good defensive midfielders. Whether we need them both on the park against Ross County is another matter. OHara was unlucky to be subbed as he had been the better of the 2 in the first half.

Donnelly is a player I like. His athleticism is suited to the Scottish game but he needs to stick to what he is good at. He should never be on pens when David Turnbull is on the pitch. That decision alone cost us a point.

Similarly corners. Polworth needs told no floaty pish! Get the ball driven in for our defenders to attack or stand aside for someone that will. 

To be fair to the players both decisions should sit with the manager who needs to get that sorted out pronto.

Lang looks a decent addition on that brief cameo. Certainly has enough pace and trickery to trouble teams at our level. Bad miss and terrible judgement for the red card, albeit it should only have been a yellow.

Hastie either needs played on the left, or given considerable work in training to go past his man and cross with his right foot. Far too predictible at the moment, as he was before he left for the dark side.

Long needs to get sharper quickly. We have competition for places now, so if he cant hit the net, he might be out the team. Makes some really good runs, but if he is played as a loan striker we need to forget wingers and play thru the middle. The pass from DT to him when he hit the post was sublime and thats how to get the best from him. Formation wise we could certainly go with 2 up top, but that may weaken us further back the pitch.

Finally, the surprise package of the night, Sherwin Seedorf! Where was that guy all last season? Other than his goal v Hearts he offered little. Here's hoping it wasnt a flash in the pan last night. Giving Jake Hastie some competition for his place could be very beneficial to us.

Overall, very disappointing result last night which was mostly self inflicted. However, there were lots of positives and if we can learn our lessons and find a settled formation, there is still much to be positive about.

[GazzyB]

Really underwhelming start to the season, but lots to work on and I'm sure we'll get it right. Could do with 4 points in the next 2 games.

[Shaka]

I actually felt for Hastie a bit last night. If we play him we need to play to his strengths and thats getting him running on to the ball at pace or getting a pass facing forward where he has space to run into. The few times we did that he actually skinned the young RB, the problem was that most of the time he was chasing back in cover Grimmy and getting the ball with his back to goal, where the County RB just shut him off. Ironically when Seedorf came on we then started putting him into space down the wing to make runs!

And those wondering about wether pre season call offs affected us, Ross County played only 3 games, 2 of them within 24 hours, and had another game called off. Why were they then better organized, fitter and hungrier?

Weve painted ourselves into a corner with our recruitment. 4-4-2 neuters Turnbull because the wingers arent good enough defensively meaning He & Campbell would be pissing in the wind most games. We cant play 3-5-2 as we now dont have any viable wing back options. So we are limited to 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, variations on the same thing essentially. 

Donnelly started as a RB but Robbo got a hardon about him playing DM. We MUST give Donnelly a run of games at RB now as Grimmy is fucking hopeless, when the commentator is laughing at your inability to complete a fucking shy you know the game is up! We also need to get away from this modern abomination of inverted wingers too. Get Hastie on the left, Seedorf on the right and let them get to the by line.

 

Gk. Trevor Carson (Scott Fox)

Rb. Liam Donnelly (Liam Grimshaw)

Lb. Jake Carroll (Nathan McGinlay)

Cd. Ricki Lamie (Yusuf Hussein)

Cd. Declan Gallagher (Bevis Mugabi)

Dm. Mark O'Hara (Barry Maguire)

Dm. Allan Campbell (Dean Cornelius)

Am. David Turnbull (Liam Polworth)

Rw. Sherwin Seedorf (Jermaine Hylton)

Lw. Callum Lang (Jake Hastie)

St. Tony Watt (Jordan White / Chris Long)

 

That above is our best team , Starter & Backup (only RW really a question mark) this is the blueprint we need to start with and work from. Fuck this square pegs in round holes bollocks. Keep the team settled and formation stable, play your best players in their best positions, make sure the players are fucking fit, and stop thinking you are Guardiola. Its not fucking hard really

[Fergie79]

You guys do remember how honking Donnely was at Left Back....moving him to RB is madness

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, Shaka said:

I actually felt for Hastie a bit last night. If we play him we need to play to his strengths and thats getting him running on to the ball at pace or getting a pass facing forward where he has space to run into. The few times we did that he actually skinned the young RB, the problem was that most of the time he was chasing back in cover Grimmy and getting the ball with his back to goal, where the County RB just shut him off. Ironically when Seedorf came on we then started putting him into space down the wing to make runs!

And those wondering about wether pre season call offs affected us, Ross County played only 3 games, 2 of them within 24 hours, and had another game called off. Why were they then better organized, fitter and hungrier?

Weve painted ourselves into a corner with our recruitment. 4-4-2 neuters Turnbull because the wingers arent good enough defensively meaning He & Campbell would be pissing in the wind most games. We cant play 3-5-2 as we now dont have any viable wing back options. So we are limited to 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, variations on the same thing essentially. 

Donnelly started as a RB but Robbo got a hardon about him playing DM. We MUST give Donnelly a run of games at RB now as Grimmy is fucking hopeless, when the commentator is laughing at your inability to complete a fucking shy you know the game is up! We also need to get away from this modern abomination of inverted wingers too. Get Hastie on the left, Seedorf on the right and let them get to the by line.

 

Gk. Trevor Carson (Scott Fox)

Rb. Liam Donnelly (Liam Grimshaw)

Lb. Jake Carroll (Nathan McGinlay)

Cd. Ricki Lamie (Yusuf Hussein)

Cd. Declan Gallagher (Bevis Mugabi)

Dm. Mark O'Hara (Barry Maguire)

Dm. Allan Campbell (Dean Cornelius)

Am. David Turnbull (Liam Polworth)

Rw. Sherwin Seedorf (Jermaine Hylton)

Lw. Callum Lang (Jake Hastie)

St. Tony Watt (Jordan White / Chris Long)

 

That above is our best team , Starter & Backup (only RW really a question mark) this is the blueprint we need to start with and work from. Fuck this square pegs in round holes bollocks. Keep the team settled and formation stable, play your best players in their best positions, make sure the players are fucking fit, and stop thinking you are Guardiola. Its not fucking hard really

I don’t think they were fitter. Last night was all about the mentality in the first half. We dominated the second half possession and lets be honest should have had at least a point.

[Neilwell86]

2 hours ago, Shaka said:

I actually felt for Hastie a bit last night. If we play him we need to play to his strengths and thats getting him running on to the ball at pace or getting a pass facing forward where he has space to run into. The few times we did that he actually skinned the young RB, the problem was that most of the time he was chasing back in cover Grimmy and getting the ball with his back to goal, where the County RB just shut him off. Ironically when Seedorf came on we then started putting him into space down the wing to make runs!

And those wondering about wether pre season call offs affected us, Ross County played only 3 games, 2 of them within 24 hours, and had another game called off. Why were they then better organized, fitter and hungrier?

Weve painted ourselves into a corner with our recruitment. 4-4-2 neuters Turnbull because the wingers arent good enough defensively meaning He & Campbell would be pissing in the wind most games. We cant play 3-5-2 as we now dont have any viable wing back options. So we are limited to 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, variations on the same thing essentially. 

Donnelly started as a RB but Robbo got a hardon about him playing DM. We MUST give Donnelly a run of games at RB now as Grimmy is fucking hopeless, when the commentator is laughing at your inability to complete a fucking shy you know the game is up! We also need to get away from this modern abomination of inverted wingers too. Get Hastie on the left, Seedorf on the right and let them get to the by line.

 

Gk. Trevor Carson (Scott Fox)

Rb. Liam Donnelly (Liam Grimshaw)

Lb. Jake Carroll (Nathan McGinlay)

Cd. Ricki Lamie (Yusuf Hussein)

Cd. Declan Gallagher (Bevis Mugabi)

Dm. Mark O'Hara (Barry Maguire)

Dm. Allan Campbell (Dean Cornelius)

Am. David Turnbull (Liam Polworth)

Rw. Sherwin Seedorf (Jermaine Hylton)

Lw. Callum Lang (Jake Hastie)

St. Tony Watt (Jordan White / Chris Long)

 

That above is our best team , Starter & Backup (only RW really a question mark) this is the blueprint we need to start with and work from. Fuck this square pegs in round holes bollocks. Keep the team settled and formation stable, play your best players in their best positions, make sure the players are fucking fit, and stop thinking you are Guardiola. Its not fucking hard really

Seedorf done very well last night, in his 30 minutes or so. Doesn't put him at the top of the pile in our 'best team' absolutely no way !! he has to build on that, starting saturday. Lets not forget 99% of our fan base would have been happy to see the back of him after last season

[Shaka]

2 hours ago, Neilwell86 said:

Seedorf done very well last night, in his 30 minutes or so. Doesn't put him at the top of the pile in our 'best team' absolutely no way !! he has to build on that, starting saturday. Lets not forget 99% of our fan base would have been happy to see the back of him after last season

Thays why I said RW was the only doubt. Seedorf & Hylton are both poor, but both are "proper" RW players. Hastie as an inverted RW is severely limited

[GazzyB]

What exactly is an inverted winger? Is it a Gareth Bale type, where a left footed player plays on the right, and vice versa?

[Andy_P]

First of all on a forum level, albeit its almost all down to the fact none of us can get to games at the moment, its quite nice to see a match thread almost hit double figures in pages again. Just like old times! Remember your friendly forum will still be here for your pre and post match rants when we can get back inside grounds again!

As for the game itself it was one of those losses that really rankle because so much of it was self-inflicted.  Daft challenge for the penalty, abysmal attempt to convert ours and passing up a couple of decent opportunities when they came our way.

Robinson said as much himself but we're marking time a little until we get to the end of the transfer window.  Whether it's Campbell or Turnbull or whoever the breadth of choices in midfield suggest we are future proofing for a sale.  That being the case there was always going to be a decision to be made as to the make up of that midfield.  It looked like Robinson fudged the issue to an extent to begin with and concocted a somewhat curious looking midfield to start with.  What I would say is that playing David Turnbull on the left-wing didn't cost us the game, but we certainly weren't as effective as we might have been in that opening half.

I don't quite agree with the suggestion that we are resigned to playing 4-3-3 because we have no other options but it is a formation that helped us do pretty well and if we are going to use it, it makes sense to use players in the roles they are most effective, most suited to it and that brings the necessary balance within it.  If that means Polworth (whom I  really rate and were it not for having Turnbull around would have starting most weeks) has to bide his time so be it.  If it means one of O'Hara or Donnelly are benched then again so be it.

The penalty you could see coming.  Difficult to contest.   From then on in I thought we gradually took control of the game but it was particularly painful viewing in the first half as they sat back, let us pass the ball around for a couple of minutes at a time until it wound its way to  Grimmy and he fucked it out the park.

The anticipated and obvious change came at the break and the balance got a lot better.  We just didn't create many chances from our territorial dominance and missed the opportunities that did come.

I felt a bit sorry for Lang.  Foul in the opposition half. Cover behind him.  It seemed harsh.  Assuming we do start with a genuine winger against Dundee Utd I presume that will be Hylton and I hope in Lang's absence he can look as similarly revitalised as Seedorf did in his cameo.

McGinley showed a good bit more last night than what we saw in the Rangers friendly and a "new" defence that included Lamie and the returned Carson and was only beaten by a penalty gives us something to build on. 

All in all not especially great but that it was really through us shooting ourselves in the foot that prevented us coming home with a point gives a modicum of comfort at this point in time.  You would not want to go very much longer before we register that all important first win however.

 

 

[Welldaft Mk1]

Last season we finished 3rd yet only took 1 point from 1st two games albeit that included a home game v Celtic. 

For all last night was disappointing it was still a better performance than Livi away in our 1st game last season where we managed to steal a draw 0-0.  Indeed I think we only had 9 points from 1st 6 games. 

Win at home v United and we are in a similar position points wise average and better off on total points. 

I thought McGinley played well which was encouraging. I thought Seedorf played well which was surprising. I thought Grimmy was poor which is worrying. I like him loads but he is definitely the weak link at the back. 

The BBC stats show a positive light as u hope we will start converting some of these chances in the games to come. 

No news on Campbell injury so it was baffling he did not start. We are truly spoiled in midfield but Turnbull out wide is not the answer. 

Disappointing result but in many ways typical Motherwell.....Hopes up and dashed once again.