Season 2020’21: Game 3 Livingston (home)

[Stu92]

Maybe less of the issue last night, but I think we struggled in the first two games because the opposition were happy to sit in and let us have the ball. Hibs won't do that. If we get some sort of reaction after Robbo's comments last night, this might be a more competitive game than most are expecting based on our recent performances. </happyclapper>

 

 

Still expect us to get beat, mind you...

[milo]

What Lamie did at the penalty has got to be one of the most idiotic and completely needless acts I’ve ever seen from a Motherwell player.

Who would’ve thought a 3rd choice player from Livingston could be capable of such things.

[C&A not the shop]

Livingstone were so "Livingstone" last night it was wild. They really got the ball into the box at every opportunity and caused chaos but then moved the ball in tight passes around the box suddenly. So similar to how we played in the cup finals season. 

What was crazy is that we decided to go head to head with them on that and put the ball long to White as often as we could, we have a  quality midfield but decided not to use it. I'm assuming that was due to our lack of a left back meaning we couldn't push the full backs up to get involved with the midfield when we got the ball.  

I think people are being harsh on Carson, he could have done better with the second but he hardly chucked it in, that apart he had a good game. Took charge of his area and looked to distribute it as well.

Though we were lucky to come away with a point. 

Hopefully Carrol can get back soon as the way we like to play needs two full backs that will get up and down the park.

[gee]

Not a very streetwise handball from Lamie so soon after taking the lead in a tight game. 

Hopefully we can bring in a fullback or two. 

Injuries have been cruel to us but Hartley and Tait would have both started for us last night and the team looks to be lacking leadership. 
 

[steelboy]

30 minutes ago, milo said:

 

Who would’ve thought a 3rd choice player from Livingston could be capable of such things.

He's Declan Gallagher's mate though!

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

But the start of the season has without doubt been a mess, even our better players are under performing for some reason and the likes of Hastie is showing why we did well to get what we did for him. A lot has been made of the strikers and defence but i’m more disappointed with the midfield performance. We have one of the strongest group of midfielders in the division but not one player has impressed at this point.

Thats it for me. For some reason the pre season has been problematic, but hasn't it also been for the other clubs? A few players don't look fit and prior to the first game not many had played a full 90 minutes. Injuries have taken their toll, especially at left back. Gallagher was carrying an injury and the manager has stated pubicly that Hylton needed to get fitter. David Turnbull is clearly a bit off full fitness and is not yet able to influence games the way he did. For whatever reason , he's also playing deeper than he normally would. He'll need more game time and we'll just have to accept that he'll disappear in games for the time being.  I'm not Donnelly's biggest fan but we have missed him in front of the defence. Apart from him do we have another defensive midfielder? Barry Maguire has been groomed for that role but for some reason hasn't featured.

Last night our off the ball work; that is closing down, harrying and hassling wasn't good enough as we saw with Livingston's second goal where we needed to get in their faces.   Offensively, the midfield hasn't been supporting the striker as it should. Jordan White is no world beater but he deserves a chance. He might make it he might not, but we need to cut him some slack. So far this season the wingers haven't really performed and have been too distant from the striker. White suffered from a lack of decent service last night. 

All this isn't to say that the defence and attack have been playing well, they haven't; but for me the midfield has a lot to do with our problems.

[Pepper]

1 hour ago, WishyWell said:

I’ve seen the fitness thing come up a few times since the manager said it, so just for the sake of accuracy...

The allusion to a lack of fitness came after the Celtic game when Adam took cramp 60 mins after coming on. However, he had played a reserves game 48 hours earlier and had been included in a full first team training session the day before the Celtic game when the normal procedure would have been a recovery session the day after playing. The manager had forgotten this when he made his comment, but then he did have a lot on his mind in the immediate aftermath of that game. It was ironic, though, as Adam was considered one of the fittest players at the club. 
 

Much as I (and he) would be overjoyed to see him in a Motherwell strip again right now, he needs to be somewhere where he’ll get a run of games for the sake of his career. 

Thank you for sharing Adam's side of the story. The truth, as always, is probably somewhere in between. 

I still don't see him being the answer to our current full back predicament. 

[wellwell91]

Just watched the highlights the defending for their 2  goals … … 1 pass takes out Campbell O’Hara and Grimshaw for their 2nd                       no communication at all ……… same with lead up to their penalty Long and Campbell going for the same ball amateurish is not the right word for that type of defending.

[Blakey]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

He's Declan Gallagher's mate though!

Is it just me or do we seem to have a bit of a history for this type of thing? Signing players based on who they are pals with or related to. You know, Harry Robinson, SR's son, Josh Law, Nicky's brother, John Davies etc.

[numpty]

23 minutes ago, Blakey said:

Is it just me or do we seem to have a bit of a history for this type of thing? Signing players based on who they are pals with or related to. You know, Harry Robinson, SR's son, Josh Law, Nicky's brother, John Davies etc.

Three in 20 years doesn't sound like much of a trend, and I'm sure there are plenty of examples at other clubs too. Did folk moan that we signed up David Clarkson  or Brian Dempsie (remember him?) because they were related to Phil O'Donnell? Scottish football is a wee village in the grand scheme of things, it's inevitable people will know or be related to each other, and will be a factor in where they end up from time to time.

[Kat]

23 minutes ago, Blakey said:

Is it just me or do we seem to have a bit of a history for this type of thing? Signing players based on who they are pals with or related to. You know, Harry Robinson, SR's son, Josh Law, Nicky's brother, John Davies etc.

Kipre recommended Manzinga, Ojamaa told McCall about Anier and I seem to remember Brian Dempsie bringing a young David Clarkson to the attention of the youth team back in the day. I think it's no secret footballers alert the managers to there buddies looking for a club.

On another note I see the young 16 year old defender Max Johnston who was on the bench last night is the son of Allan Johnston.

[numpty]

3 minutes ago, Kat said:

Kipre recommended Manzinga, Ojamaa told McCall about Anier and I seem to remember Brian Dempsie bringing a young David Clarkson to the attention of the youth team back in the day. I think it's no secret footballers alert the managers to there buddies looking for a club.

Recommending someone is very different to nepotism, though. People get recommended for jobs by friends and former colleagues in all walks of life, all the time.

[Winning by Name]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

He's Declan Gallagher's mate though!

So is Tony Watt and he is not getting a start.

[yosemite sam]

I'm thinking that Declan Gallagher is not as good a Captain as Hartley was, and doesn't seem to get the same out if the players around him. 

[CoF]

It''s hard to work out exactly where things are going wrong here. I think Robinson is a very good manager and while a few will dispute this, his record with us proves that. The squad, with varying depth and quality still looks strong enough to compete far more than we've seen this year. 

Last night as a difficult watch as we seemed to once again persevere with a tactic of hoofs, chips and dinks to the forward line which was easily nullified for the whole second 45. That tactic is down to the manager however its difficult to say if it failed because of a lack of application from the players. I rarely doubt a players commitment, but there were certainly times where it looked like that 'run through a brick wall' effort was lacking. 

Robinson's post-match is as angry as I've seen him and I think will be a watershed for him. It will either galvanise the squad or they'll turn on him. Worryingly, for the first time under his tenure the application of a large chunk of the first team seems to be in question. That off-field chemistry can be a really difficult thing for a manager to set right. 

Robinson has always spoke of getting the right characters into the club. Here's hoping they've got the mix right otherwise we could be in for a very difficult season. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

For me the players need to get the finger oot. I am not meaning all of them. I think we can excuse Carson, Campbell, Turnbull, Seedorf and White. For the latter his effort is obvious even if he may not be easy on the eye. Even big Bevis could be excused. Not a lack of effort on his part but lack of playing time and ability on occasion. 

That leaves a fuck load of players that are underperforming at the moment or not good enough.

In midfield OHara and Polworth have not got close to their performance they are capable of. Gallagher also has struggled to retain his high standards but suggestions he is nursing an injury ? 

Then up front Hastie and Long have done very little and when you add that to injuries and suspensions of 3 to 4 1st team players it is easier to understand our problems. Lang will hopefully be better than what we have seen so far. McGinley was best player v Ross C and will partner Gallagher when he is fit again. If we can also get Jake Carroll fit for any length of time. 

Our league record since New Year has been poor but then we probably have a higher budget only than Hamilton, Livi and St Mirren. So is it any surprise really ? 

Robinson comes in for stick and he has to sort out his starting 11 and get some continuity. The players are selling him short. I am sure his calling some players out may not go down well in the dressing room.

So what - he is spot on. 

I have faith in him turning it around and at least having us mid table come end of season with hopefully decent run in Europe and cups. 

[Stu92]

He usually doesn't give much away with his body language, but Turnbull was notably raging last night at the movement going on around him. I reckon the 'playing with 7 men' sentiment resonates with some in the squad also. More so than a result, we need a reaction in terms of performance and application on Saturday to show we're all pulling in the same direction.

[GazzyB]

I said it during the game last night, but we are unable to keep the ball because we have two full backs who quite simply aren't full backs. Lamie looks fairly solid defensively but in the modern game you need full backs that can take the ball, get up the park, overlap, put decent crosses into the box etc, and him and Grimshaw just can't do that in my opinion. We badly miss Jake Carroll and even McGinley looked decent against County. but when you go from having one out of two full backs who can keep the ball to zero out of two, it's a massive problem. It results in Gallagher and Mugabi having plenty of time on the ball and nobody to pass to, so they resorted to punts up the park, dinks to White's head, chips down the line for Seedorf and Long to chase onto bouncing balls etc etc. Add in O'Hara not offering for the ball as much as he could/should and it was an absolute disaster. Full backs who can get on the ball allow for square passes into the likes of Turnbull who can then make things happen.

 

I thought White was really poor. Seems like a nice guy, keen to prove himself at this level, but all he did all game was foul blatantly, moan at the ref, fall over, whinge at the ref, head the ball out of play etc etc. If we are to play with White as a lone striker (and I hope we don't coz it'll be a long fuckin season) then we need wingers that can beat a man and get the ball into the box. Seedorf and Hylton are the only two wingers who have beat a man in 3 games, and Hylton has barely played due to fitness/injury issues. What makes it even tougher is it's impossible to get the ball to a winger's feet because they are so busy chasing Declan Gallagher's dinks into the channel, or trying to play off of a Lamie flick on from a hopeless punt up the park. It all makes for garbage viewing and a real lack of entertainment/quality on show.

 

I'm a fan of Chris Long, but he needs benched, and fast. I'd much rather have him on the bench than right wing. For me we've got to go with a front 3 of Hylton, Watt and Seedorf, with Seedorf being played on the correct side and not as an inverted winger. As I said last night, I'm not sure what on earth is going on with Watt, but he's barely had any minutes and he hasn't played up front at all, so get him in from the start on Saturday and give him a chance.

 

Big fan of Robinson but he's had a mare so far this season, huge mistakes in every game. Last night Seedorf and White should've been subbed after 60 minutes, it is astounding we never made a change until the 77th minute. I like that he's fired shots publicly at the players, but I hope he knows what he's doing because as someone else mentioned if it backfires he'll lose the dressing room. I think we have a squad that will react to it the right way though.

 

Damage limitation against Hibs, a point would be magic, and scud Hamilton next weekend and things won't be so bad. But a humping on Saturday and 1 point or less the following week and Robinson's jacket will be on a very shoogly peg.

[steelboy]

I agree with all of that but I'd have Lang rather than Seedorf.

Seedorf has been better and could be a handy sub on the right wing as we saw at Dingwall. 

[GazzyB]

Thought Lang was suspended for 3 games?

[stv]

Theres not a leader on the park to motivate the team, even Robinson looks too calm on the side lines.No point in moaning at the press conferance when the games over too late by then.

The constant backward and sideways passing towards the halfway line rather than towards the oppositions goal is awful to watch in a totaly static team.

[wellsince75]

24 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

I said it during the game last night, but we are unable to keep the ball because we have two full backs who quite simply aren't full backs. Lamie looks fairly solid defensively but in the modern game you need full backs that can take the ball, get up the park, overlap, put decent crosses into the box etc, and him and Grimshaw just can't do that in my opinion. We badly miss Jake Carroll and even McGinley looked decent against County. but when you go from having one out of two full backs who can keep the ball to zero out of two, it's a massive problem. It results in Gallagher and Mugabi having plenty of time on the ball and nobody to pass to, so they resorted to punts up the park, dinks to White's head, chips down the line for Seedorf and Long to chase onto bouncing balls etc etc. Add in O'Hara not offering for the ball as much as he could/should and it was an absolute disaster. Full backs who can get on the ball allow for square passes into the likes of Turnbull who can then make things happen.

 

I thought White was really poor. Seems like a nice guy, keen to prove himself at this level, but all he did all game was foul blatantly, moan at the ref, fall over, whinge at the ref, head the ball out of play etc etc. If we are to play with White as a lone striker (and I hope we don't coz it'll be a long fuckin season) then we need wingers that can beat a man and get the ball into the box. Seedorf and Hylton are the only two wingers who have beat a man in 3 games, and Hylton has barely played due to fitness/injury issues. What makes it even tougher is it's impossible to get the ball to a winger's feet because they are so busy chasing Declan Gallagher's dinks into the channel, or trying to play off of a Lamie flick on from a hopeless punt up the park. It all makes for garbage viewing and a real lack of entertainment/quality on show.

 

I'm a fan of Chris Long, but he needs benched, and fast. I'd much rather have him on the bench than right wing. For me we've got to go with a front 3 of Hylton, Watt and Seedorf, with Seedorf being played on the correct side and not as an inverted winger. As I said last night, I'm not sure what on earth is going on with Watt, but he's barely had any minutes and he hasn't played up front at all, so get him in from the start on Saturday and give him a chance.

 

Big fan of Robinson but he's had a mare so far this season, huge mistakes in every game. Last night Seedorf and White should've been subbed after 60 minutes, it is astounding we never made a change until the 77th minute. I like that he's fired shots publicly at the players, but I hope he knows what he's doing because as someone else mentioned if it backfires he'll lose the dressing room. I think we have a squad that will react to it the right way though.

 

Damage limitation against Hibs, a point would be magic, and scud Hamilton next weekend and things won't be so bad. But a humping on Saturday and 1 point or less the following week and Robinson's jacket will be on a very shoogly peg.

Agree with a lot of what you've said.

Playing Lamie & Grimmy as full backs is limited.  Lammie won't go up the flank and overlap with which ever winger we play. Until Carrol is back we need a different approach. 
For Grimmy there wasn't a winger to support him for most of the game, we need Hilton or Seedorf to play right wing if this is going to be the tactic. (and they're both bit players at best) 
Long is never a right winger , he's an out and out forward and should be played as such or not played at all.  He's getting a hard time but this position is a waste of time for him. 

[C&A not the shop]

I think people are being too harsh on Grimshaw, he gets up and down the park and does a good enough job when he's doing that. Once we have a left back that can do that on the other side then we can get back to using the system that works. No point in one full back getting forward and the other now as it unbalances the full team. 

At least his suspension gives Lang time to get up to fitness and what we do. 

Can only assume Watt is carrying some sort of knock as otherwsie you'd definitely have him on the park last night at some stage.

[Welldaft Mk1]

20 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

Thought Lang was suspended for 3 games?

Just the 2 so I suspect he will start on Saturday or if not fit enough come off the bench at some point. 

We could do with another right back and left back option. Sadly we have 3 left backs / left sided defenders injured. I know Robinson said we would look for a replacement even temporary until Xmas. If so do it as soon as possible. 

 

[Jumbomuir]

Oh Big Peter 5,where are you, people say you had lost a bit of pace but by god you would have kicked a few arses in the last 3 games and got it organised. It's plain to see that Declan isn't the same without his big pal beside him, if we have to keep Bevis in the defense then I really worry, 2 Yr contract why!!. 

Money was spent early, but this habit we have of keeping on injured players needs to stop, sorry but we're in a pandemic shit happens can't give you a contract.