Martin Foyle Recruitment Discussion

[Yorkyred]

As above plenty of others on that list were nowhere near “ Shite”. We would have been relegated long ago if that were the case. To give two examples both Bowman and Main had a period where they were both effective. The Bowman/Moult partnership was excellent.

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 8/23/2020 at 10:25 PM, fizoxy said:

2020 - Lang, McGinley, Fox, Lamie, O’Donnell, White, Hastie 

2019 - Gallagher, Polworth, Carroll, Sloth, Hylton, Long, Seedorf, Ilic, Manzinga, Mugabi, Watt, McIver, Robinson, Aarons, Cole, O’Hara 

2018 - Gillespie, Johnson, Taylor-Sinclair, Donnelly, Gorrin, Mbulu, Ariyibi, Sammon, McCormack

2017 - Fisher, Bigi, Tanner, Carson, Rose, Griffiths, Dunne, Kipre, Newell, Plummer, Ferguson, Petravicius, Grimshaw, Hartley, Main, Aldred, Gordon , Hendrie, Ciftci 

2016 - don’t know who were his signings or the other guy’s. 

In the same rough period, players to come through our system and play more than a token game or two:

Cadden, Campbell, Hastie, Turnbull, Maguire, Scott, Semple 

Good = green.  Duds = red.  

I'm willing to give our summer signings a full season for the most part but for me White isn't a top level player.

I make 4 good, 17 bad.

I understand and think most fans underestimate how difficult recruitment is for a club like us, but even so that's not a great ratio.

Also consider that Kipre was brought in on a punt and I don't think the management team really understood how good he was at the time.

I'd rate Gillespie as our best goalkeeper since Darren Randolph but he came in as a 2nd choice keeper to Carson and probably wouldn't have played with out Carson's issues.

Gorrin barely kicked a ball for half a season until the Great Turnbull Led Football Breakout of early 2018 and that makes it 1 first team player, Declan Gallagher, that I think was bought as a first-name-on-the-team-sheet kind of player and has actually worked out.

Basically the recruitment during Robinson's time here has been pretty poor.

[Spiderpig]

19 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Good = green.  Duds = red.  

I'm willing to give our summer signings a full season for the most part but for me White isn't a top level player.

I make 4 good, 17 bad.

I understand and think most fans underestimate how difficult recruitment is for a club like us, but even so that's not a great ratio.

Also consider that Kipre was brought in on a punt and I don't think the management team really understood how good he was at the time.

I'd rate Gillespie as our best goalkeeper since Darren Randolph but he came in as a 2nd choice keeper to Carson and probably wouldn't have played with out Carson's issues.

Gorrin barely kicked a ball for half a season until the Great Turnbull Led Football Breakout of early 2018 and that makes it 1 first team player, Declan Gallagher, that I think was bought as a first-name-on-the-team-sheet kind of player and has actually worked out.

Basically the recruitment during Robinson's time here has been pretty poor.

2 cup finals, a 3rd place finish European qualification , millions made in  selling on  players who cost us nothing , for me recruitment has been a lot better than we think.

[Kmac]

Team for Aberdeen:

 

————————Chapman

 

Grimshaw——-Mugabe——Lamie——-McGinley

 

Seedorf——-Crawford—-Polworth——-Hastie

 

————-——-White———Long

 

not good enough to compete at home?

I didn’t think so either.

Goodbye Robbo, take Foyle and Co. with you on the way.

Enough is enough of this abject transfer strategy or throwing shite at a wall.

[David]

On 8/23/2020 at 10:25 PM, fizoxy said:

I saw him mentioned on the Robbo thread, and thought we could look at his signings since he joined in 2016ish and assess whether we think he’s been good or not.  This is a list of what I got from Wikipedia or the top of my head, might be the wrong years, but a start. I’ll update if needed.

Since foyle is the head of recruitment i think he should be held responsible for all transfers in good or bad, otherwise it’s hard to draw the line where he identified a player or whether it was someone Robinson knew, or Gallagher’s mate, or a dodgy YouTube video.

What constitutes success? That’s definitely up for discussion. Did the player actually play a decent amount of games? Did we sell him? Did he go on to “better” things?

2020 - Lang, McGinley, Fox, Lamie, O’Donnell, White, Hastie 

2019 - Gallagher, Polworth, Carroll, Sloth, Hylton, Long, Seedorf, Ilic, Manzinga, Mugabi, Watt, McIver, Robinson, Aarons, Cole, O’Hara 

2018 - Gillespie, Johnson, Taylor-Sinclair, Donnelly, Gorrin, Mbulu, Ariyibi, Sammon, McCormack

2017 - Fisher, Bigi, Tanner, Carson, Rose, Griffiths, Dunne, Kipre, Newell, Plummer, Ferguson, Petravicius, Grimshaw, Hartley, Main, Aldred, Gordon , Hendrie, Ciftci 

2016 - don’t know who were his signings or the other guy’s. 

In the same rough period, players to come through our system and play more than a token game or two:

Cadden, Campbell, Hastie, Turnbull, Maguire, Scott, Semple 

So, as we approach the end of another season it may be worth expanding on the signings made since the OP listed the above:

Devante Cole

Aaron Chapman

Jordan Archer

Steven Lawless

Sam Foley

Robbie Crawford

Liam Kelly

Harry Smith

Jordan Roberts

Eddie Nolan

Tyler Magloire

With that said, is there anyone who thinks the time may have come for some fresh blood in the recruitment department? Or has Foyle done enough to keep his job?

[steelboy]

Eddie Nolan has to the worst signing ever. We have had many, many players who have played shite and loads of players who are too shite to even play but I don't think we've ever had a player who hasn't set foot in the stadium.

At least we have photographic evidence that Kraska existed.

[weeyin]

31 minutes ago, David said:

With that said, is there anyone who thinks the time may have come for some fresh blood in the recruitment department? Or has Foyle done enough to keep his job?

Foyle doesn't actually recruit anyone of course, and I remember Robinson on a few occasions saying how he was sent videos by agents on an almost daily basis. So while he obviously has some say in checking players out, who we ultimately sign is down to the transfer policy/budget set by the board and the manager deciding which players he fancies.

If we continue with the philosophy of signing players "with something to prove" the risks are high, the rewards are guys like Marvin Johnson and Cedric Kipré.

 

[David]

3 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Foyle doesn't actually recruit anyone of course, and I remember Robinson on a few occasions saying how he was sent videos by agents on an almost daily basis. So while he obviously has some say in checking players out, who we ultimately sign is down to the transfer policy/budget set by the board and the manager deciding which players he fancies.

Then there's no real need for a head of recruitment.

[bobbybingo]

58 minutes ago, steelboy said:

 

 

I have absolutely no recollection of David White. Any clues?

[grizzlyg]

Folk know my views on this,  I would rather see more academy players being produced than us signing players from down south, yes a few successes but a lot of poor ones.  If no academy players good enough to step up then we need to look st that structure,   COYW

[Stuwell2]

20 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Folk know my views on this,  I would rather see more academy players being produced than us signing players from down south, yes a few successes but a lot of poor ones.  If no academy players good enough to step up then we need to look st that structure,   COYW

The academy can only produce players that are willing to come/stay at Motherwell.
We’re up against Rangers, Celtic, Hamilton, Livingston, Hibs and Hearts to get players in and then any decent club down south to keep them long enough to make the first team. 
We have done well in recent years but we have also lost a few potential first team players at the same time. 

[wellsince75]

recruitment is tricky and even the best managers sign people who just don't work out. Tommy Mclean signed some awful players but had the knack of moving them on quickly. 

Personally I'd rather try and find better Scottish talent than always going the lucky dip of the lower English leagues but appreciate it's easier said than done.

Overall a smaller squad and use the cash saved on wages to bring in a better quality than we've had. 

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, bobbybingo said:

I have absolutely no recollection of David White. Any clues?

Did he not join us from Ipswich? A defender if I recall rightly.

[wunderwell]

My mate is a Pompey fan, said Greig Miller is their new head of recruitment ex-well. Defender? hardly played?

[bobbybingo]

29 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Did he not join us from Ipswich? A defender if I recall rightly.

You're right. Couldn't find him on Google under Motherwell. Left us at the end of the season for Cowdenbeath, a good few years at Brechin then up and down between lower leagues and juniors. Still no memory of him.

[bobbybingo]

12 minutes ago, wunderwell said:

My mate is a Pompey fan, said Greig Miller is their new head of recruitment ex-well. Defender? hardly played?

Yeah, Alex Miller's son.

[GazzyB]

I would have thought 'head of recruitment' was more like being in charge of all the scouts, sending them to certain places, reading their reports and presenting their findings to the management team to have the final say.

 

Could be wrong though.

[David]

5 hours ago, GazzyB said:

I would have thought 'head of recruitment' was more like being in charge of all the scouts, sending them to certain places, reading their reports and presenting their findings to the management team to have the final say.

 

Could be wrong though.

I was under the impression that a Head of Recruitment at a club like ours was supposed to identify potential players who fit within a certain remit that had been decided by the club? Isn't it supposed to ensure that regardless of who the manager is we have a long-term strategy in place that provides a level of continuity?

If we're just letting whoever is manager at the time dictate the recruitment then we can end up in a position where, for example, Graham Alexander brings in almost an entire squad during this summer based on his own requirements, fails badly, gets sacked, then we replace him with a new manager who says "nope, absolutely none of these players fit the system I want to play or meet my requirements. Clear out and begin again."

I thought we'd followed the lead of a lot of football clubs in the modern era where we hired a manager who would be a good fit for the long-term strategy laid out by the board and Head of recruitment, rather than just ripping everything up and starting from scratch whenever we replace the manager?

[GazzyB]

Whilst you may well be right I get the feeling that a lot of managers just wouldn't stand for being told who was/wasn't being signed, Graham Alexander most certainly included.

[David]

19 hours ago, GazzyB said:

Whilst you may well be right I get the feeling that a lot of managers just wouldn't stand for being told who was/wasn't being signed, Graham Alexander most certainly included.

I didn't say a manager would be told who was or wasn't being signed, I said that I figured a Head of Recruitment at a club like ours was supposed to identify potential players who fit within a certain remit that had been decided by the club? A remit that any manager we have in place will have been told about and agreed to before being given the job. From those identified players the manager would analyse and choose the one he wanted.

Of course, if a manager had a particular player in mind, and that player also worked within the parameters of the long-term plan for the club, then they'd obviously not tell him he's not getting him.

But I think that the days of managers having a Fergie-like say over who comes in and who doesn't are long gone. Most clubs don't operate like that now, and if they do, then what's the point in a head of recruitment? Just revert back to the old way of doing things where we have a few scouts who go where the manager tells them and the process consists of the manager telling the chairman who he wants to sign.