Season 2020’21: Game 6 Celtic (away)

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, MelvinBragg said:

Before the game my feelings were 'get out of here with 3-0 or less, no injuries or red cards'.

My feelings as well, although maybe had we not gone to 4-3-3 we might have ended up with a slightly better goal difference - who knows. 

Its becoming plain that Mark O'Hara is being played out of position. He's a box to box player not a defensive midfielder.  Liam Donnelly is not returning anytime soon . We have several options there.  A) Try out young Dean Cornelius there (today was maybe not the game to do that); B) switch with Allan Campbell; or c) get in a new player, preferrably on loan until Donnelly returns after new year. At any rate something needs to be done.

I'm not really in favour of spending any of DT's transfer income on getting in new players, but a short term loan deal for a midfielder might be an exception.     

[Stu92]

3 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Liam Donnelly is not returning anytime soon .

What is the latest on him? The last I'd heard was post-Ross County when it was 8 weeks at least but too soon to say.

[MelvinBragg]

1 minute ago, Kmcalpin said:

ts becoming plain that Mark O'Hara is being played out of position. He's a box to box player not a defensive midfielder.  Liam Donnelly is not returning anytime soon . We have several options there.  A) Try out young Dean Cornelius there (today was maybe not the game to do that); B) switch with Allan Campbell; or c) get in a new player, preferrably on loan until Donnelly returns after new year. At any rate something needs to be done.

A couple of times you've mentioned this about Donnelly. Where have you seen/heard this? I was under the impression he'd be back in October...

[ropy]

What sort of midfielder is Maguire being groomed to be?

[texanwellfan]

On the bright side I thought Mugabi played well again barring that one slip. 

[Yorkyred]

11 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

If 2 wins in 16 league games is too soon to be having the discussion, you'll never be ready to talk about it. That includes two home defeats to Accies, a home defeat by St Mirren, losses away to St Johnstone and Ross County and a home defeat to a Dundee United side that just got skelped by Kilmarnock. 

These are statistics, not opinions such as 'his signings have been poor, he has made the wrong substitutions'. Without wishing to go all Rafa Benitez, these are facts. 

In his defence, facts also show we finished third last season. But had the season continued, that might not have been the case. 

While not disregarding his previous achievements at Fir Park, managers and players are judged on most recent performance. What's that old line 'you're only as good as your last game'?

I'm not saying sack him, but I don't think anyone having the conversation is out on a limb...

 

I tend to look on it on a season by season basis, just the same way that a strong finish to a season means nothing the next season. This season has not been close to good enough, but it’s been small margins looking at it on a game by game basis, individual mistakes and opportunities missed. We are not performing like a team that’s out of it’s depth by any means in my view, but we do need to cut out the mistakes and put the ball in the back of the new more often. St Johnstone next game up is very important, we need a win and we don’t want moral to drop.

[Shaka]

6 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

A couple of times you've mentioned this about Donnelly. Where have you seen/heard this? I was under the impression he'd be back in October...

"Minimum 8 weeks but probably longer" were the words out of Robinsons mouth before the Livingston game. So probably looking at early/mid November

[fizoxy]

Where are we with mcginley and Carroll? They used to have an injury list on the website but I can't find it anymore.

And Dunne, forgot about him. 

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, MelvinBragg said:

A couple of times you've mentioned this about Donnelly. Where have you seen/heard this? I was under the impression he'd be back in October...

Today's Sunday Mail. Not mine's I hasten to add. Out for 5 months with a knee injury, picked up in training.

I'd forgotten about Barry Maguire, the "Forgotten Man". If he can't break into the team now when can he?

[joewarkfanclub]

I thought we were actually pretty decent in the first half. We were disciplined with our shape and kept possession fairly well when we got the chance. We were able to advance our position up the pitch and had a couple of decent sniffs at their goal. I thought big Bevis was excellent today, best Ive seen him and remarkably Grimmy had a very good first half at left back. The goal was unfortunate as it happened on the breakaway as we were attacking. I thought Lamie could have done better by showing Forest the outside. Everyone knows he likes to come inside and shoot. It was a shame as he had been doing much better defensively tucked in a bit and we were so close to going in at half time level.

The second half was a harder watch. Celtic changed their shape and had a lot more possession of the ball. We found it more difficult to retain it ourselves. That said we were still able to get into one or two dangerous positions, but our forwards were too isolated to make anything from them.

The 2nd goal kills us and it was OHara that lost his man. I agree with KMcAlpin that we need to swap roles with OHara and Campbell. Wee Kante is more suited to the holding role and is excellent at breaking up play and moving the ball on. OHara is far more athletic and should be the box to box player. Ive no idea why Robbo doesnt see this.

Today was always going to be hard. But I saw lots to be encouraged about if you care to look past the result. My main gripe is that there are obvious changes that can be made that would make life so much easier for us if we keep things simple and play to our strengths but the manager seems to overthink things at times. 

Here's hoping the international break is kind to is. We need some wins on the board quickly.

[Andy_P]

1 hour ago, Yodo said:

Dire absolutely dire tried to sit in we've all seen the script before .Ideal time to sack Robinson 2 weeks to find another manager ,Robinsons time is up at Fir Park 

We have indeed all seen your script before.  About once a week for a last three years.

[0Neils40yarder]

44 minutes ago, ropy said:

What sort of midfielder is Maguire being groomed to be?

A championship level one 

[0Neils40yarder]

45 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I tend to look on it on a season by season basis, just the same way that a strong finish to a season means nothing the next season. This season has not been close to good enough, but it’s been small margins looking at it on a game by game basis, individual mistakes and opportunities missed. We are not performing like a team that’s out of it’s depth by any means in my view, but we do need to cut out the mistakes and put the ball in the back of the new more often. St Johnstone next game up is very important, we need a win and we don’t want moral to drop.

Agreed...I dont understand the fixation with using last seasons stats to beat the manager for this season 

[gaz7]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We didn't do too badly all things considered today although I think Robinson has changed the system too early in the match.  We were looking fine and then within minutes of going to four at the back we go 2-0.  Felt he should have just kept it as it was until the last 10 minutes or so.

Overall though 6 matches, 2 goals, 1 clean sheet and 2 points isn't good enough.

Need to see a big improvement in the second half of this quarter.

Totally agree ya bezzer. 1st half I thought we done ok and I dont think any other spfl player would have scored their 1st goal. 2nd half we were not as gd and when he changed formation there goal came from where lamie would have been. Confidence is now again low and I am glad of break. We will come gd I am sure as we have better players than at least 3 others lol

[Andy_P]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We didn't do too badly all things considered today although I think Robinson has changed the system too early in the match.  We were looking fine and then within minutes of going to four at the back we go 2-0.  Felt he should have just kept it as it was until the last 10 minutes or so.

Overall though 6 matches, 2 goals, 1 clean sheet and 2 points isn't good enough.

Need to see a big improvement in the second half of this quarter.

I think that's a fair assessment. 

Not too bad a performance for me.  As Gazzy said earlier very much your typical Old Firm away display under Robinson. Nothing sparkling, nothing too disastrous but an eventual defeat with a mixture of plusses and minuses.

Again a noble attempt by Robinson at turning the tide our way in the second, but at arguably at the wrong stage of the game,  and once again a negative outcome.  You would have to hope that eventually things turn and that such game changing gambles aren't required as often.

I don't think our performances have garnered the points they perhaps warranted and as such I don't see us a bottom of the table team. But it becomes increasingly difficult to defend that stance the longer the team are there.  There will be an expectation that, that is addressed when St Johnstone visit in a couple of weeks. 

 

[Shaka]

5 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

Totally agree ya bezzer. 1st half I thought we done ok and I dont think any other spfl player would have scored their 1st goal. 2nd half we were not as gd and when he changed formation there goal came from where lamie would have been. Confidence is now again low and I am glad of break. We will come gd I am sure as we have better players than at least 3 others lol

Eh? There isnt a single player in the SPL, goalkeepers included, who WOULDNT have scored their first goal! Lamie stood off so much Forrest could have jogged home, had a cuppa then jogged back and still picked his spot with ease.

[Shaka]

2 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

I think that's a fair assessment. 

Not too bad a performance for me.  As Gazzy said earlier very much your typical Old Firm away display under Robinson. Nothing sparkling, nothing too disastrous but an eventual defeat with a mixture of plusses and minuses.

Again a noble attempt by Robinson at turning the tide our way in the second, but at arguably at the wrong stage of the game,  and once again a negative outcome.  You would have to hope that eventually things turn and that such game changing gambles aren't required as often.

I don't think our performances have garnered the points they perhaps warranted and as such I don't see us a bottom of the table team. But it becomes increasingly difficult to defend that stance the longer the team are there.  There will be an expectation that, that is addressed when St Johnstone visit in a couple of weeks. 

 

Anything less than 3 points against St Johnstone and the manager shouldnt even make it to the handshakes without being handed his p45!

[gaz7]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

My feelings as well, although maybe had we not gone to 4-3-3 we might have ended up with a slightly better goal difference - who knows. 

Its becoming plain that Mark O'Hara is being played out of position. He's a box to box player not a defensive midfielder.  Liam Donnelly is not returning anytime soon . We have several options there.  A) Try out young Dean Cornelius there (today was maybe not the game to do that); B) switch with Allan Campbell; or c) get in a new player, preferrably on loan until Donnelly returns after new year. At any rate something needs to be done.

I'm not really in favour of spending any of DT's transfer income on getting in new players, but a short term loan deal for a midfielder might be an exception.     

I agree re o'hara. He is combative and good tackler but not good enough on ball and neither is Campbell to play there. In the formation we play that position gets a lot of the ball and Gorrin was superb I felt for our level. Cornelius I dont know where the optimism comes from?  Hes only young and no games to go on so I think it's only hope and hes local as some may know his family from our fans to suggest hes ready. The 352 team today with carrol or mcginley added will see us shoot up table I feel

[gaz7]

5 minutes ago, Shaka said:

Eh? There isnt a single player in the SPL, goalkeepers included, who WOULDNT have scored their first goal! Lamie stood off so much Forrest could have jogged home, had a cuppa then jogged back and still picked his spot with ease.

No your wrong and you know it.

 if he shown him outside forest is comfortable there and would have scored as well imo. He hit it right in side netting so come on it was a gd finish

[texanwellfan]

Seems like most people are fixated on us being bottom of the table. Understandable but at the same time you can also look at our position as being just 5 points away from being in top 6. So although results have not gone our way, the performances have been decent for the most part ( except Livingston which oddly enough  is the only game we scored in) so I’m confident we will start to pick up points, starting with 3 points against St Johnstone, and finish in top 6. 

[Happy Dosser]

Saw the whole of the first half but only the last ten minutes of the second. Frustrating that the first and third  happened when we were up the park: a feeble cross from O'Donnell and a typical Hylton mistake led to their goals. 

How many times does Forrest score the same goal against us?

[FirParkCornerExile]

17 minutes ago, Shaka said:

Anything less than 3 points against St Johnstone and the manager shouldnt even make it to the handshakes without being handed his p45!

We need 9 points from the next 5 games to put us at worst on even keel. Anything less and we certainly are in a relegation dogfight.

[MelvinBragg]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

I tend to look on it on a season by season basis, just the same way that a strong finish to a season means nothing the next season. This season has not been close to good enough, but it’s been small margins looking at it on a game by game basis, individual mistakes and opportunities missed. We are not performing like a team that’s out of it’s depth by any means in my view, but we do need to cut out the mistakes and put the ball in the back of the new more often. St Johnstone next game up is very important, we need a win and we don’t want moral to drop.

I actually think we do look out of out depth. An inability to beat either Accies, Dundee United or Livingston at home suggests we might be. 

I appreciate what you are saying about taking each season on their own. But that's not how it works in the real world. If we'd started poorly this season having finished strongly last, you might be more inclined to cut a manager some slack and say it's a blip. If it seems like a continuation of the previous season's form then you have to start asking if the manager has either not identified or not addressed the previous season's problems.

Putting our current form in context, we Ian Baraclough won 5 of his last 16  league games. Stuart McCall won 5 of his last league games. We have won 2 of our last 16 league games.  Our last league win was 8 games ago. That is horrible form even if it is stretched over two seasons....

Of course Robinson's position should be under scrutiny...

[MelvinBragg]

12 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

We need 9 points from the next 5 games to put us at worst on even keel. Anything less and we certainly are in a relegation dogfight.

Then we'll be in a relegation dogfight...

[Lan_Lad]

It's too early to be overly concerned about relegation but there sure are concerns. I wouldn't be concerned about losses to the OF, that will happen to everybody but two of the next three matches are Aberdeen away and Rangers at home. A tall order given current form. Accies have 1 league win and 4 losses from their 5 games. No need to mention where they got that solitary win.

I feel it might be prudent to invest some of the Turnbull money on strengthening to attempt putting some space between us and the relegation zone as early as possible. All last season Hearts fans kept expecting their descent to be turned around. It never happened and we're in a season that may be cut short then called as it stands.