Season 2020’21: Game 6 Celtic (away)

[Shaka]

24 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Seems like most people are fixated on us being bottom of the table. Understandable but at the same time you can also look at our position as being just 5 points away from being in top 6. So although results have not gone our way, the performances have been decent for the most part ( except Livingston which oddly enough  is the only game we scored in) so I’m confident we will start to pick up points, starting with 3 points against St Johnstone, and finish in top 6. 

I just dont see that. There is a BIG difference between playing well and having some nice passes while the opponents happily sit in. Our best performance of the season was against Hibs, and even then, apart from the Whyte offside shot we never looked anywhere near scoring.

Todays game was the same as the rest of the season, we are utterly toothless and ultimately end up chucking a goal or two in at our end. Teams know this and the likes of St Johnstone, Killie etc will happily sit in and wait till we give them their goal. You would think after 6 games we would at least look solid and hard to beat but we simply are not.

We are 7 games into a new season, and the manager STILL has absolutely no idea what our best team or formation is! We have no left back, our midfield "balance" is all over the place and our "attack" is in disarray. How do we fix that?

[texanwellfan]

My main concern is the lack of goals. We have 3 left backs but unfortunately all 3 are injured. Our defense is not too bad, we have some decent midfielders. We either need to get a goal scorer which probably won’t happen so he has to fix the way we play to create more and better chances for us to score. 

[Kmcalpin]

16 minutes ago, Shaka said:

We are 7 games into a new season, and the manager STILL has absolutely no idea what our best team or formation is! We have no left back, our midfield "balance" is all over the place and our "attack" is in disarray. How do we fix that?

Its not uncommon to be searching for your best 11 until say late September. However this season we have suffered several bad injuries and that has not helped continuity nor solidity. That said, we still don't seem to know the best formation, be it 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 to field. That, I do find odd. The defence has been unsettled due to new players and injuries and I understand that. Some of the strikers are new and I get that they may take a little time to settle. However its the midfield that baffles me. It just isn't functioning well and its the same players we had last season (Campbell, O'Hara, Polworth, Hylton, Seedorf). Hastie being the exception. Its the misfiring midfield thats the root of many of our current problems. 

On paper we have a stronger squad than last season and I was expecting better things but it just hasn't turned out that way at all. Yes, we've suffered injuries in a key area but something just doesn't seem right.

[Well Well]

21 minutes ago, Lan_Lad said:

I feel it might be prudent to invest some of the Turnbull money on strengthening to attempt putting some space between us and the relegation zone as early as possible. All last season Hearts fans kept expecting their descent to be turned around. It never happened and we're in a season that may be cut short then called as it stands.

Never going to happen, manager has already said he wont see any of the Turnbull cash

[milo]

From Ross County to Accies in the league table , if any of those teams win another game before we do, we’re not catching them this season. St Johnstone is must win and assuming we get nothing as expected v Aberdeen and Rangers, so is St Mirren. There’s now enormous pressure on the manager and players and no wriggle room.

[grumpy]

19 minutes ago, milo said:

From Ross County to Accies in the league table , if any of those teams win another game before we do, we’re not catching them this season. St Johnstone is must win and assuming we get nothing as expected v Aberdeen and Rangers, so is St Mirren. There’s now enormous pressure on the manager and players and no wriggle room.

Wow, just fucking wow. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

22 minutes ago, milo said:

From Ross County to Accies in the league table , if any of those teams win another game before we do, we’re not catching them this season. St Johnstone is must win and assuming we get nothing as expected v Aberdeen and Rangers, so is St Mirren. There’s now enormous pressure on the manager and players and no wriggle room.

Way over the top 9 points is turned around in 3 games and there are 32 to go. We also have to face some of them 4 times. 

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, MelvinBragg said:

I actually think we do look out of out depth. An inability to beat either Accies, Dundee United or Livingston at home suggests we might be. 

I appreciate what you are saying about taking each season on their own. But that's not how it works in the real world. If we'd started poorly this season having finished strongly last, you might be more inclined to cut a manager some slack and say it's a blip. If it seems like a continuation of the previous season's form then you have to start asking if the manager has either not identified or not addressed the previous season's problems.

Putting our current form in context, we Ian Baraclough won 5 of his last 16  league games. Stuart McCall won 5 of his last league games. We have won 2 of our last 16 league games.  Our last league win was 8 games ago. That is horrible form even if it is stretched over two seasons....

Of course Robinson's position should be under scrutiny...

You see my definition of out of our depth would be those teams taking us to the cleaners and that’s simply not the case. I would argue in the first game against Ross County that overall we were also the better team. I would also argue that the real world is taking each season separately, every team changes a percentage of players each season. We were the forth  highest goalscorers in the league last season with the same strikers and same midfielders so nothing to suggest that would be a problem. I would personally have signed another centre half and right back but to be fair we now have the right back, we’ve simply been unlucky on the left hand side. 
For me there was nothing to suggest we would struggle this season, very strong midfield and what looked like plenty of options up front, my worry was the defence which is actually turning out to be the least of our worries, with Carroll and McGinn to come back we will be fine ( but I would still like to see another centre half in the Aldred mould.

[Yorkyred]

33 minutes ago, milo said:

From Ross County to Accies in the league table , if any of those teams win another game before we do, we’re not catching them this season. St Johnstone is must win and assuming we get nothing as expected v Aberdeen and Rangers, so is St Mirren. There’s now enormous pressure on the manager and players and no wriggle room.

Oh come on.

[MelvinBragg]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

You see my definition of out of our depth would be those teams taking us to the cleaners and that’s simply not the case. I would argue in the first game against Ross County that overall we were also the better team. I would also argue that the real world is taking each season separately, every team changes a percentage of players each season. We were the forth  highest goalscorers in the league last season with the same strikers and same midfielders so nothing to suggest that would be a problem. 

I was mocked in February for asking where the goals were going to come from, mocked to be fair because I asked in the middle of the St Mirren cup tie.  Some of us could see this coming.

Fourth highest goalscorers, true. But with the exception of Ross County at home, the goals fairly dried up in the league after the turn of the year. Right after Scott and Cole left. Not saying either of those players were world beaters but they offered pace and strength that dragged us up the field that is now missing  

We're now left with Chris Long and Jordan White, neither of whom are good enough. Calum Lang, untested at this level. Tony Watt, may have qualities but in his spell with Hearts and St Johnstone in the SPL scored 4 goals in 34 starts.

Don't tell me we've been unlucky and the goals will come  St Mirren have played 5 games and scored 7 goals. We've played 6 games, dominated possession in 5 of them and scored 2 goals. Pretty obvious there's a problem and what it is. Inability to score goals costs points...

[Kmcalpin]

23 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

Don't tell me we've been unlucky and the goals will come  St Mirren have played 5 games and scored 7 goals. We've played 6 games, dominated possession in 5 of them and scored 2 goals. Pretty obvious there's a problem and what it is. Inability to score goals costs points...

A fair bit, though not all, of our inability to hit the net is down to lack of ammunition from the wingers and other midfielders. Even our set pieces such as corners have been largely ineffective.

[Lan_Lad]

7 hours ago, MelvinBragg said:

I was mocked in February for asking where the goals were going to come from, mocked to be fair because I asked in the middle of the St Mirren cup tie.  Some of us could see this coming.

Fourth highest goalscorers, true. But with the exception of Ross County at home, the goals fairly dried up in the league after the turn of the year. Right after Scott and Cole left. Not saying either of those players were world beaters but they offered pace and strength that dragged us up the field that is now missing  

We're now left with Chris Long and Jordan White, neither of whom are good enough. Calum Lang, untested at this level. Tony Watt, may have qualities but in his spell with Hearts and St Johnstone in the SPL scored 4 goals in 34 starts.

Don't tell me we've been unlucky and the goals will come  St Mirren have played 5 games and scored 7 goals. We've played 6 games, dominated possession in 5 of them and scored 2 goals. Pretty obvious there's a problem and what it is. Inability to score goals costs points...

See this is the thing, take Hearts as the example. They seemed to be flying high at the start of the 18/19 season.  I think they won their first 11 games on the trot beating everybody in the league. Began to entertain fantasies of winning the league. Then it all crashed and burned. Had barely a handful of wins or so over the next 18 months. They would have been relegated 18/19 if not for the stellar start.

And on paper they had a very strong squad which had their fans and the media pundits too thinking they will turn it around. They never did and look where they are now. In addition to that they were dominant in a vast number of those losing games. Superior possession, much greater numbers of shots at goal in comparison to most of the opposition.

They simply couldn't score and as often as not the opposition who were digging in like ticks were snatching a goal on the break or at a set piece. Sound familiar?

[Ya Bezzer!]

14 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

I tend to look on it on a season by season basis, just the same way that a strong finish to a season means nothing the next season. This season has not been close to good enough, but it’s been small margins looking at it on a game by game basis, individual mistakes and opportunities missed. We are not performing like a team that’s out of it’s depth by any means in my view, but we do need to cut out the mistakes and put the ball in the back of the new more often. St Johnstone next game up is very important, we need a win and we don’t want moral to drop.

I think there is a kind of middle ground here.

It is a new season so the end of last season's poor form doesn't directly effect what we do this season but at the same time it does indicate long standing issues under Robinson.

Issues around creating and scoring have been around since James Scott left the club so you have to put your hand up and say that Robinson has failed to deal with these in the second half of last season, during the break and so far this season. 

We've scored 15 goals in our last 20 league matches, obviously averaging less than 1 goal per game.  We've failed to score 10 times in that time, 50% of matches, and only scored more than 1 goal 3 times from 20.   When you take out the clear anomaly of scoring 4 against Ross County it takes it to 11 goals in 19 matches which is very poor.  And of course using only this seasons stats show the problem has got worse.

Goal scoring is the reason we are currently bottom of the league so I do think casting an eye back is warranted if you want to really analyse our form but at the same time I do think last seasons defeats don't have the same currency in 20-21.  They have some currency (ask Barraclough) but not the same currency.

If we are going into October without a win then critics won't have to cite last season any more because I think failure to win in our next three will constitute a real serious issue, especially if some of the other strugglers pick up points.

 

 

[milo]

11 hours ago, grumpy said:

Wow, just fucking wow. 

So you don’t think failing to pick up a win in the next 4 games whilst teams who are already 6/7 points ahead of us picking up even a meagre 3/4 points in the same period is a problem?

wow, just fucking wow.

[milo]

11 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

Oh come on.

So you don’t think failing to pick up a win in the next 4 games whilst teams who are already 6/7 points ahead of us picking up even a meagre 3/4 points in the same period is a problem?
 

oh come on.

[Yassin]

Just as well we're going to scud St Johnstone and Coleraine then isn't it?

[Yorkyred]

6 hours ago, milo said:

So you don’t think failing to pick up a win in the next 4 games whilst teams who are already 6/7 points ahead of us picking up even a meagre 3/4 points in the same period is a problem?
 

oh come on.

If you look at the bit I highlighted in your post. 

[Blue3]

The BBC saying how much possession and balls into the box and that the fault is not scoring goals I disagree it's  not the chances made I am confident the forwards will start scoring it's just a matter of time and confidence instead I think the problem is defending 

It's still the simple things defending  we are getting wrong  I hope the players watch the goals again and again

All three Celtic goals there were chances for Motherwell to close the Celtic player out  

The first goal why did midfield allowed the Celtic player to drift pass he was on the halfway line clatter him if necessary.

Their second who was marking 

The last goal was comical no tracking back players just standing watching,  it's starting to become a habit this loosing 

I really don't like to see photos of the manager head in hands nor do I like to see managers publicly dishing out blame as it's the manager who selects formations, player and most importantly sets the tone  come on mr Robinson deep breath stand tall get the team doing the basics keep formation cover each other show some fight bollock them fine them by all means but do it behind closed doors 

 

 

[Jack]

3 hours ago, Blue3 said:

The BBC saying how much possession and balls into the box and that the fault is not scoring goals I disagree it's  not the chances made I am confident the forwards will start scoring it's just a matter of time and confidence instead I think the problem is defending 

It's still the simple things defending  we are getting wrong  I hope the players watch the goals again and again

All three Celtic goals there were chances for Motherwell to close the Celtic player out  

The first goal why did midfield allowed the Celtic player to drift pass he was on the halfway line clatter him if necessary.

Their second who was marking 

The last goal was comical no tracking back players just standing watching,  it's starting to become a habit this loosing 

I really don't like to see photos of the manager head in hands nor do I like to see managers publicly dishing out blame as it's the manager who selects formations, player and most importantly sets the tone  come on mr Robinson deep breath stand tall get the team doing the basics keep formation cover each other show some fight bollock them fine them by all means but do it behind closed doors 

 

 

To be fair to the manger he did say about us gifting them goals at the weekend, as it was mistake for the first and terrible marking for the second.

[Kmcalpin]

4 hours ago, Blue3 said:

The BBC saying how much possession and balls into the box and that the fault is not scoring goals I disagree it's  not the chances made I am confident the forwards will start scoring it's just a matter of time and confidence instead I think the problem is defending 

It's still the simple things defending  we are getting wrong  I hope the players watch the goals again and again

All three Celtic goals there were chances for Motherwell to close the Celtic player out  

The first goal why did midfield allowed the Celtic player to drift pass he was on the halfway line clatter him if necessary.

Their second who was marking 

The last goal was comical no tracking back players just standing watching,  it's starting to become a habit this loosing 

 

 

Good analysis of the goals that we lost. Many of the goals we lose are down to standing off opponents, not covering and giving them too much room. I’m not suggesting our lads charge about like headless chickens but they need to up their work rate to close opponents down when we’re not in possession.

[grumpy]

12 hours ago, milo said:

So you don’t think failing to pick up a win in the next 4 games whilst teams who are already 6/7 points ahead of us picking up even a meagre 3/4 points in the same period is a problem?

wow, just fucking wow.

You said

 

"From Ross County to Accies in the league table , if any of those teams win another game before we do, we’re not catching them this season."

 

You are arguing that we won't close a four point gap on Accies over, potentially, 31 games. That was the reason for my response.

 

PS you may be right, but I don't agree.

 

[GazzyB]

On 8/30/2020 at 4:40 PM, MelvinBragg said:

I guarantee you we'll finish in the bottom four and will not be clear of automatic relegation by the split. If you disagree, I'll wager £50 to be paid to your favourite charity if we finish above 9th and are mathematically safe from finishing bottom after 33 games...

 

On 8/30/2020 at 4:41 PM, GazzyB said:

You're on my friend! 8th and above, £50 to a charity of my choice, 9th or worse, £50 to a charity of yours.

Gonna be tight!!

[Spiderpig]

31 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

 

Gonna be tight!!

If Celtic win by 2 or more goals tomorrow we go 8th, so your charity might be on a winner 

[ropy]

37 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

If Celtic win by 2 or more goals tomorrow we go 8th, so your charity might be on a winner 

1-0 would do it surely?

[Spiderpig]

5 minutes ago, ropy said:

1-0 would do it surely?

1-0 would leave them on the same GD as us-16 Don't know if they go to goals scored etc, but 2-0 puts us above them.