Fans back into stadiums

[Toxteth O'Grady]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54104001

Oct 5th at the earliest now.

[Kmcalpin]

38 minutes ago, steelboy said:

There's no justification for 1000 seat limits. I was in an indoor restaurant at the weekend that had easily over 100 customers plus staff yet you can't have more than 250 people in the massive South Stand.

Also why are test events going ahead now and not 6 weeks ago when cases were 200% lower? Football is getting a raw deal off the government.

Agreed, and I'm in no way being political.  Our approach throughout the UK is totally inconsistent. I appreciate that football's resumption here in Scotland is based on an informal agreement between the Scottish Government and the footballing authorities, but coronavirus doesn't respect industries and locations.   Presumably conditions will be enforced strictly at test events yet they are not being enforced anywhere else? I've seen dozens of folk wandering around supermarkets with no face coverings and totally ignoring social distancing and nothing is done about it. Pubs were shut down in Aberdeen but not in Glasgow. In the Glasgow area, its ok for households to meet in a pub but not at home?  

Yes, football is being given a raw deal.

[Brazilian]

You should definitely get onto the government to shutdown supermarkets 

[Andy_P]

These people coming and going from pubs, restaurants and supermarkets they all sat empty for 20 hours of the day then everybody appeared and entered at roughly at the same time and all left at exactly the same time did they?  That's why you won't find consistency with sports venues and pubs and the likes because I don't think there isn't a true comparison to be made between the them.

I agree the protocols that Aberdeen fans have been issued with seem remarkably excessive when you are in the ground but to me the biggest issue is actually getting in and out.

You look at the East Stand with what six turnstiles all within about 20 feet of one another.  One exit for people to go out. Two pissers.  

We've all seen what it can be like trying to get into the East Stand in the run up to kick off.  So we tell people to come early and social distance to avoid a late rush. How early?  People are going to be really happy being told to pitch up at half five to get in for a midweek game when it's minus four.  Where do you queue?  The St Mirren Cup tie queue was down around the corner.  If we're socially distancing when queuing we're going to see queues from three stands and a ticket office merging pretty quickly.  And coming out.  It's February we're 4-0 down to Celtic we're all going to sit there quite happy to twenty past ten until we get to our section and our row to leave?

I want to get back as soon as possible. I want to be in a crowd with Motherwell fans because I'm fairly sure our absence has done nothing to help the sticky start. But I'm under no illusions of the issues that the clubs have to overcome to convince the authorities that they can do this without incident, and what we might have to face when we get the opportunity to prove as supporters we can return responsibly.

 

[steelboy]

It's not difficult. Seats would need to be allocated and just give a preferred time for each section to enter at. The majority of people would manage that no bother.

Given there would be no away fans we would use the South for home fans so the East wouldn't need as many people in it.

Talking about turning up two hours before kick off is daft. If the reduced capacity of the East Stand is 1500 that means each turnstile let in 250 people which isn't a lot. If people start turning up at 2:15 you are talking 6 people a minute.

[Great Balls of Shire]

4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Agreed, and I'm in no way being political.  Our approach throughout the UK is totally inconsistent. I appreciate that football's resumption here in Scotland is based on an informal agreement between the Scottish Government and the footballing authorities, but coronavirus doesn't respect industries and locations.   Presumably conditions will be enforced strictly at test events yet they are not being enforced anywhere else? I've seen dozens of folk wandering around supermarkets with no face coverings and totally ignoring social distancing and nothing is done about it. Pubs were shut down in Aberdeen but not in Glasgow. In the Glasgow area, its ok for households to meet in a pub but not at home?  

Yes, football is being given a raw deal.

Just as a side note , and nothing to do with football ...why are some people walking alone outside with masks on? 

[Yodo]

7 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Just as a side note , and nothing to do with football ...why are some people walking alone outside with masks on? 

I see this Covid thing has went right over your head 

[MelvinBragg]

6 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Just as a side note , and nothing to do with football ...why are some people walking alone outside with masks on? 

Not sure. Possibly they're only walking a short distance between two places they'll need to wear a mask and feel there's no point taking it off to put it back on again? I must confess that there have been a couple of occasions when I've come out of a supermarket and walked for about 10 minutes before I've remembered that I have my mask on, so it's easy to forget (mind you, I work in a hospital and wear one for twelve hours so maybe easier for me to forget). I don't know why they're doing it but they're not harming me so I'm learning to ignore it...

[Great Balls of Shire]

51 minutes ago, Yodo said:

I see this Covid thing has went right over your head 

Just with them being alone and outside .

Apart  from that , it’s a pretty high risk situation. Might as well keep it on in bed too

[santheman]

1 hour ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Just as a side note , and nothing to do with football ...why are some people walking alone outside with masks on? 

Maybe they’re on their way to blag someone’s house and don’t want to get caught on CCTV.

[Great Balls of Shire]

9 minutes ago, santheman said:

Maybe they’re on their way to blag someone’s house and don’t want to get caught on CCTV.

Lol.... there was a item  on  radio Scotland news at the weekend reporting a robbery in Glasgow saying  masked men had raided shop .....

[Spit_It_Out]

This is nothing but political now it all stems from the Aberdeen fallout its like we are kids told not allowed to go to the football cause we have been naughty total joke but then I am a 45 year old man and not allowed to buy any alcohol until 10 am punish everyone for a fews actions.

Can we not all wear masks sit with them on and watch a game of football.Its a total pigs ear if they can allow thousands at marches thats happened over the summer and no rise in the virus BTW then can't we be allowed to go to the football?Sorry but this is utter agenda against football fans.

I say this everything was ticking along fine until they said go take yer summer holiday its fine go abroad.

[Stu92]

10 hours ago, Spit_It_Out said:

Sorry but this is utter agenda against football fans.

You're starting to sound like one of them...

[Andy_P]

16 hours ago, steelboy said:

It's not difficult. Seats would need to be allocated and just give a preferred time for each section to enter at. The majority of people would manage that no bother.

Given there would be no away fans we would use the South for home fans so the East wouldn't need as many people in it.

Talking about turning up two hours before kick off is daft. If the reduced capacity of the East Stand is 1500 that means each turnstile let in 250 people which isn't a lot. If people start turning up at 2:15 you are talking 6 people a minute.

It's not difficult?

You mention the South Stand. Before anybody sets foot in Fir Park I guarantee you'll have people complaining that they don't want to sit in the South Stand/Cooper Stand/Main Stand They've sat on that seat in the East since 1991.  Never missed a game. No way they are going to sit in the away end in the top tier or over there on a shitty seat with holes in it on the wings of the Main Stand. Cue loads of calls or people nipping the heads of the folk in the ticket office.

Using your 1500 estimate in the East Stand  you aren't going to be able to use all those turnstiles if you are going with even 1m distancing.  They are all crammed together so you are talking probably half of those turnstiles being in use. 

One of the few things they can do that'll potentially spread out the flow of people into the stadium is to open up the turnstiles early.  That's hardly daft, that's perfectly sensible regardless of whether they go with an allocated arrival slot so people have a 5-10 minute window say to join the queue, or whether it's a pitch up and take your chance case - although I would be amazed if  they took the chance of replicating the usual ten to three rush.  Whatever way you do it you most certainly need that bigger window to get people in.  

And then when you're inside.  Are seats going to be taped off meaning there a scramble for the perceived best seats?  As close to where you sat before?  Are you going to be allocated a seat which means you are back to the grumbles about people being stuck behind poles or miles away from friends.   Again the ticket office people will be worn down dealing with stuff like this.

With everybody playing their part, making what I suspect will be some fairly major concessions to their match day routine, this will be achievable.  To suggest that it's not difficult however is just wishful thinking.

[Spiderpig]

Until we have a vaccine for covid or the virus transmission rates fall to zero or it goes away fans will get nowhere near a stadium this season.

Yes there may be a few test events letting fans in depending on how much the ugly sisters moan about it, but I reckon this season will be fan free.

The bottom line is that unless we get the virus under control or a vaccine the risk to public health is too high, not to mention the extra financial burden on clubs which could see a few of them going bust.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Andy_P said:

You mention the South Stand. Before anybody sets foot in Fir Park I guarantee you'll have people complaining that they don't want to sit in the South Stand/Cooper Stand/Main Stand They've sat on that seat in the East since 1991.  Never missed a game. No way they are going to sit in the away end in the top tier or over there on a shitty seat with holes in it on the wings of the Main Stand. Cue loads of calls or people nipping the heads of the folk in the ticket office.

Now I'm not saying it will be easy Andy but it should be reasonably straightforward with a restricted crowd. The key to this specific issue would be to set the ground rules before allocating seats.  Presumably season ticket holders would be invited to join a draw, as Aberdeen is organising. At that stage it should be made crystal clear to applicants that they could be allocated to any stand, but normal preferences would be taken into account but in no way guaranteed. If that isn't acceptable then don't apply end of.   

[Ya Bezzer!]

19 hours ago, steelboy said:

It's not difficult. Seats would need to be allocated and just give a preferred time for each section to enter at. The majority of people would manage that no bother.

Given there would be no away fans we would use the South for home fans so the East wouldn't need as many people in it.

Talking about turning up two hours before kick off is daft. If the reduced capacity of the East Stand is 1500 that means each turnstile let in 250 people which isn't a lot. If people start turning up at 2:15 you are talking 6 people a minute.

If you need 1m social distancing that means most people in the stand will need at least one empty seat in every direction between them and others.  So unless you sit on an aisle I make that 1 behind, 1 in front, 1 right, 1 left, 1 front right, 1 front left, 1 behind left, 1 behind right.  So a 'box' of 8 empty seats around every spectator.

There is no way you get 1,500 people into the East Stand.  Nothing even close.  At most you are getting maybe 350 fans in there.

[MelvinBragg]

29 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

If you need 1m social distancing that means most people in the stand will need at least one empty seat in every direction between them and others.  So unless you sit on an aisle I make that 1 behind, 1 in front, 1 right, 1 left, 1 front right, 1 front left, 1 behind left, 1 behind right.  So a 'box' of 8 empty seats around every spectator.

There is no way you get 1,500 people into the East Stand.  Nothing even close.  At most you are getting maybe 350 fans in there.

I agree that 1500 is optimistic but (and I don't know the answer here) how would the new six people rule work? If you're allowed to meet 5 other people, could you have groups of six with one row in between them? The suggestion of every second seat in each direction taped off affects parents who take their children to the game. It's a minefield and I'm glad that I'm not involved in sorting it out...

[Ya Bezzer!]

11 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

I agree that 1500 is optimistic but (and I don't know the answer here) how would the new six people rule work? If you're allowed to meet 5 other people, could you have groups of six with one row in between them? The suggestion of every second seat in each direction taped off affects parents who take their children to the game. It's a minefield and I'm glad that I'm not involved in sorting it out...

I don't think you can sort it out that's why you can't have people sitting next to one another.  The rules are too complex and subject to change at any time, either at local or national level. So I think that basically the only way it works is if everyone attending has to be socially distanced.

I believe Under 12's don't count in terms of social distancing (might be wrong about that) so you'd be able to have young children next to an adult but you'd have to have seats set aside for family groups.

[Stu92]

On 9/10/2020 at 1:14 PM, Kmcalpin said:

Agreed, and I'm in no way being political.  Our approach throughout the UK is totally inconsistent. I appreciate that football's resumption here in Scotland is based on an informal agreement between the Scottish Government and the footballing authorities, but coronavirus doesn't respect industries and locations.   Presumably conditions will be enforced strictly at test events yet they are not being enforced anywhere else? I've seen dozens of folk wandering around supermarkets with no face coverings and totally ignoring social distancing and nothing is done about it. Pubs were shut down in Aberdeen but not in Glasgow. In the Glasgow area, its ok for households to meet in a pub but not at home?  

Yes, football is being given a raw deal.

5 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Now I'm not saying it will be easy Andy but it should be reasonably straightforward with a restricted crowd. The key to this specific issue would be to set the ground rules before allocating seats.  Presumably season ticket holders would be invited to join a draw, as Aberdeen is organising. At that stage it should be made crystal clear to applicants that they could be allocated to any stand, but normal preferences would be taken into account but in no way guaranteed. If that isn't acceptable then don't apply end of.   

There's absolutely zero chance of 100% compliance, there will always be a minority that ruins it for the majority. If folk can't grasp the basics of wearing a mask when you nip in for a pint of milk, they aren't going to stick to their designated seat and refrain from chanting when they finally get into a live game.

I know you're not the only one to suggest it, but I don't see how football is being given a raw deal. Thousands of people have lost jobs, businesses and, more importantly, loved ones. Football at the end of the day is a recreational activity for 99.9% of supporters in the country. Sport in general, but specifically football, has been given great dispensations to start back again ahead of umpteen other industries or factions of society due to the national love of the game. To suggest the government is stringing the game along is nothing short of naive when you look at the bigger picture.

 

[Kmcalpin]

4 hours ago, Stu92 said:

There's absolutely zero chance of 100% compliance, there will always be a minority that ruins it for the majority. If folk can't grasp the basics of wearing a mask when you nip in for a pint of milk, they aren't going to stick to their designated seat and refrain from chanting when they finally get into a live game.

I know you're not the only one to suggest it, but I don't see how football is being given a raw deal. Thousands of people have lost jobs, businesses and, more importantly, loved ones. Football at the end of the day is a recreational activity for 99.9% of supporters in the country. Sport in general, but specifically football, has been given great dispensations to start back again ahead of umpteen other industries or factions of society due to the national love of the game. To suggest the government is stringing the game along is nothing short of naive when you look at the bigger picture.

Agree about compliance as we only need to look at quarantine arrangements after plane loads of holidaymakers arriving back in the country to see how difficult that is to enforce. The new rule about 6 people in 2/3 households - good luck with that.

Yes, thousands of people have suffered through loss of their jobs, businesses and loved ones - no disagreement with me on that score. As most, but regrettably not all, of us know, Covid 19 is a very nasty virus.  Governments of all persuasions have a very very difficult job of trying to balance addressing Covid 19 with trying to protect economies. I really don't envy Nicola Sturgeon or Boris Johnson's jobs in that regard. All that said, trying to keep countries onside, motivated and compliant is a monumental task and people have to be entertained and motivated and compliant and that task can't be undervalued (Professors Karol Sikora and Linda Bauld have made this very point recently). There is also the not insignificant detrimental effect on mental health. Football and indeed sport in general has a role to play in that.  Football is an outdoor sport involving large numbers. I quite agree that in the current climate allowing large numbers of fans to attend is simply not on. However allowing a few hundred fans into stadia is not unreasonable and presents less risk than allowing punters into pubs, mass demonstrations, or on aircraft or public transport for example.  The numbers involved shouldn't make enforcement of compliance too difficult. Apart from the financial aspect, I don't see why snacks can't be served in "test" stadia as the same folk could easily buy takeaways from burger vans or fast food outlets for example.   Don't overlook the fact that football clubs employ quite a few non playing staff and they are suffering at the moment.

There will always be levels of inconsistency in Governments' approaches' but we could do better to iron out disrepancies. 

[0Neils40yarder]

19 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Now I'm not saying it will be easy Andy but it should be reasonably straightforward with a restricted crowd. The key to this specific issue would be to set the ground rules before allocating seats.  Presumably season ticket holders would be invited to join a draw, as Aberdeen is organising. At that stage it should be made crystal clear to applicants that they could be allocated to any stand, but normal preferences would be taken into account but in no way guaranteed. If that isn't acceptable then don't apply end of.   

This might sound stupid, but what if someone catches Covid at one of these matches and falls ill? Would there be insurance claims being handed in?

[numpty]

3 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

This might sound stupid, but what if someone catches Covid at one of these matches and falls ill? Would there be insurance claims being handed in?

Doubt there would be much of a case unless they could prove negligence. Nobody was forcing them to go in the first place.

[Kmcalpin]

4 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

This might sound stupid, but what if someone catches Covid at one of these matches and falls ill? Would there be insurance claims being handed in?

Very very difficult to prove, if not impossible. If it was possible there would have been scores of cases so far relating to transport, parties, pubs, restaurants etc etc.  Even if someone did catch the virus at a football match it would be hard to disprove that they didn't catch it elsewhere; especially from someone who was asymptomatic. Even then as Numpty says, they would have to prove negligence.

[santheman]

On 9/12/2020 at 10:58 AM, numpty said:

Doubt there would be much of a case unless they could prove negligence. Nobody was forcing them to go in the first place.

Funny enough I was out with a friend who is a Lawyer In one of those firms who specialise in no win no fee accident claims and he was saying that they had already had quite a few people contacting them to see if they would take on their case because they had caught Covid.

Joked that his firm was opening up a new dept called Coronavirus Claims 4U.

I hope he was joking but wouldn’t be surprised if something like that did happen eventually