Fans back into stadiums

[santheman]

2 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Surely more than 20% of people had been in a cafe, bar or restaurant in the previous fortnight?

20% of those who tested positive and were contacted by tracers according to Govt figures although I believe it has now gone up to 23%

[Kmcalpin]

5 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

So  between 5 and 20 PC have  been in a pub or restaurant and MAY have caught it there, if there are ones who aren't doing the controls properly,  by all means,  close them. That  still leaves between 80 and 95 PC who haven't..

Yes, these figures can be misleading. How many who have tested positive had visited shops in the previous fortnight? That said, pubs are probably virus hotspots. Even the Covid19 mortality statistics are subject to considerable error and are probably overstated, although the number of those infected is probably understated. A major problem throughout the UK is non compliance with self isolation, quarantine etc etc. Mixing of households is also a major source of infection, and I suspect commonplace. 

[Brazilian]

On 10/7/2020 at 10:49 AM, steelboy said:

Why do you think things are so different in Scotland than in France, Germany, England or Holland?

The Scottish Government have already shown with that they believe football fans are second class citizens with their OBFA. 

 

 

On 10/7/2020 at 11:43 AM, DunnyMFC said:

The Netherlands have postponed  matches and in some regions fans are banned since there is a risk of another lockdown.  They did ban shouting and chanting. 

 

On 10/7/2020 at 11:59 AM, Winning by Name said:

I live in France and what you say is wrong. Things are exactly the same here for normal people as in Scotland. So much for Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite.

 

On 10/7/2020 at 12:53 PM, Ya Bezzer! said:

UK has 42,445 total deaths and 14,542 new cases yesterday from a population of 67 million.

Germany has 9,635 total deaths and 2,462 new cases yesterday from a population of 84 million.

Yes, it's different in different countries.

 

On 10/7/2020 at 3:44 PM, steelboy said:

The SFA and SPFL should be in contact with European leagues to get data about their experiences with distanced crowds.

Sturgeon definitely isn't providing much information unless you are just looking for empty platitudes every day. The Scottish Government have decided give care home providers anonymity and are delaying releasing the report into Covid in care homes which should have been published last week. That's just one example. Today she also said that despite distancing, masks etc we are somehow only three weeks away from the levels of March. Two months ago she was talking about zero Covid. 

 

On 10/7/2020 at 4:52 PM, DunnyMFC said:

Well the Dutch leagues are going to go back to not having crowds.  Could follow their protocol where only a small amount of fans allowed in the stadiums but they have to stay quiet otherwise they can be faced with a 3 month ban. 

And today Angela Merkel has been meeting with German mayors, “One can consider whether to again allow fewer people into football matches or none at all.”

the clubs have been operating with fans in a testing period and despite it not yet been finished, already the transmission rates (not proven yet to be specific to football fans) are too large in most areas

the next 3 games in Munich will be with no fans

Steelboy, is that the full set of countries you advised the SFA and SPFL to be sourcing information from , now shutting down crowd experiments, 

‘Sturgeon’  really needs to be made aware 

 

[steelboy]

It doesn't change the fact that we didn't even try to bring fans back when Covid levels were low and Sturgeon was talking about zero Covid. Just like our licensing laws we are the most negative, small minded country in Europe. 

The Scottish Government aren't interested in whether football is safe or not it's just about optics. Socially distanced football attendance would be like pissing in an Olympic pool compared to schools and work places. Other countries are trying. We aren't. 

[wellwell91]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

It doesn't change the fact that we didn't even try to bring fans back when Covid levels were low and Sturgeon was talking about zero Covid. Just like our licensing laws we are the most negative, small minded country in Europe. 

The Scottish Government aren't interested in whether football is safe or not it's just about optics. Socially distanced football attendance would be like pissing in an Olympic pool compared to schools and work places. Other countries are trying. We aren't. 

Tell me just how are the clubs going to make any money by allowing about 20% of there capacity in ??? 

For a club like ours that’s roughly 2000 to2500 fans even for the likes of Celtic it’ll be roughly 12000 tops ……… so it will be season tickets only !!! 

Big bucks come from corporate hospitality and that ain’t going to happen anytime soon ……… assuming company’s are able to take clients to football matches , think they have other priorities 

IMO clubs are not pushing to hard to get fans in as they know their going to loose even more money getting them in.

[joewarkfanclub]

If we are going to trial letting fans into games we should be going to the lower leagues which have much smaller, more easily distanced crowds which are far nearer there normal operating level. Top level clubs can get by on tv revenue for now, despite how shite a spectacle it is, but the lower league clubs need punters through the door just to make it viable.

[ropy]

Outside of the next two weeks could Motherwell put on the equivalent of hospitality and play a stream of the game as it happens?

[Kmcalpin]

48 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

If we are going to trial letting fans into games we should be going to the lower leagues which have much smaller, more easily distanced crowds which are far nearer there normal operating level. Top level clubs can get by on tv revenue for now, despite how shite a spectacle it is, but the lower league clubs need punters through the door just to make it viable.

Good post. I didn’t realise until this evening that bingo halls have been open, albeit with social distancing in place. Given that I really can’t see why lower league clubs shouldn’t be allowed to admit a limited number of home fans. 

[steelboy]

14 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Tell me just how are the clubs going to make any money by allowing about 20% of there capacity in ??? 

For a club like ours that’s roughly 2000 to2500 fans even for the likes of Celtic it’ll be roughly 12000 tops ……… so it will be season tickets only !!! 

Big bucks come from corporate hospitality and that ain’t going to happen anytime soon ……… assuming company’s are able to take clients to football matches , think they have other priorities 

IMO clubs are not pushing to hard to get fans in as they know their going to loose even more money getting them in.

They've sold the tickets already ffs!

What you are saying is the equivalent of paying for a flight then turning up at the airport and the airline telling you that there's no plane because it would cost them money to fly you.

(thinking about Boyle and Dempster did actually use that business model)

[wellwell91]

3 hours ago, steelboy said:

They've sold the tickets already ffs!

What you are saying is the equivalent of paying for a flight then turning up at the airport and the airline telling you that there's no plane because it would cost them money to fly you.

(thinking about Boyle and Dempster did actually use that business model)

Still have not told me how their going to make any money by letting fans in ????

As I said above it will probably cost them more money to police / steward it

Only reason clubs are playing at the moment is to get the TV money 

[dennyc]

6 hours ago, steelboy said:

They've sold the tickets already ffs!

What you are saying is the equivalent of paying for a flight then turning up at the airport and the airline telling you that there's no plane because it would cost them money to fly you.

(thinking about Boyle and Dempster did actually use that business model)

That's the case every season regards Season Tickets and the cash generated from that source is used in all sorts of ways not directly related to matchdays. Its the additional income from cash paying fans on a match by match basis that will be used to cover/partly cover the actual cost of opening the stadium week to week.

Last season our average home  gate was just under 6000 , including visiting fans. Allowing for ST Holders that leaves around 2000 punters paying cash. At £15 a head (and I think I am underestimating) that works out at a minimum of £30000 per game cash income to cover costs. £570, 000 a season. At £20 a head that is over £750000 a season.

Motherwell have likely lost that cash anyway this season, but to add to that loss by opening the ground long term for no financial return is madness. And I am pretty sure you  would not be happy if attending games was limited to cash paying customers only in an effort to restrict losses. 

And as for losing  income from Season Ticket holders by giving fans the option of carrying unattended games forward to next season, it is exactly that...an option. Having watched the games online I am positive many if not most fans will not take up that option. In my opinion Motherwell have handled the situation extremely well and that includes looking after Season Ticket holders.

[wellwell91]

29 minutes ago, dennyc said:

That's the case every season regards Season Tickets and the cash generated from that source is used in all sorts of ways not directly related to matchdays. Its the additional income from cash paying fans on a match by match basis that will be used to cover/partly cover the actual cost of opening the stadium week to week.

Last season our average home  gate was just under 6000 , including visiting fans. Allowing for ST Holders that leaves around 2000 punters paying cash. At £15 a head (and I think I am underestimating) that works out at a minimum of £30000 per game cash income to cover costs. £570, 000 a season. At £20 a head that is over £750000 a season.

Motherwell have likely lost that cash anyway this season, but to add to that loss by opening the ground long term for no financial return is madness. And I am pretty sure you  would not be happy if attending games was limited to cash paying customers only in an effort to restrict losses. 

And as for losing  income from Season Ticket holders by giving fans the option of carrying unattended games forward to next season, it is exactly that...an option. Having watched the games online I am positive many if not most fans will not take up that option. In my opinion Motherwell have handled the situation extremely well and that includes looking after Season Ticket holders.

That is the situation in a nutshell ……… for nearly all clubs unless we are going back to business as usual most clubs are not clambering to open gates to reduced numbers

[Well Well]

with Nir Bitton testing positive for Covid after the Scotland game I can't see anyone going near a stadium anytime soon. If the footballers are getting tested regularly and they still seem to catch it then I can't see any chance of fans coming back

[Yassin]

I think this season is a write off tbh. Wouldn't be getting my hopes up with this government until a vaccine.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/clubs-given-fan-return-hope-22910495

Quote

Clubs given fan return hope as SPFL set for government talks over five tier lockdown system

It's hoped turnstiles could be open for the last round before the international break.

Football's top brass are set for urgent talks with the Scottish Government as hopes grow fans will be back in Scottish grounds next Friday night.

Record Sport can reveal that discussions between Hampden’s sixth floor and Holyrood have been taking place since the First Minister unveiled plans for a new five tier lockdown system at the end of last week. And hopes are rising there could finally be some good news on the way for the crisis-hit national sport with crowds allowed back in restricted numbers for the SPFL Friday card on November 6.

Aberdeen face Hibs at Pittodrie, Livingston make the trip to Ross County and St Johnstone host Kilmarnock on the last round of fixture before Scotland’s Euro 2021 play-off final.

St Mirren are also scheduled to take on Dundee United in Paisley on the same night.

But, with coronavirus numbers soaring across the central belt, it’s already certain that match will be played out behind closed doors in any case.

There is considerable frustration among leading clubs that supporters have remained locked out of their grounds while being allowed to watch matches live inside cinemas.

Nicola Sturgeon hinted strongly the worst affected areas – including Glasgow and Lanarkshire – will most likely be placed into the third tier, which would see the turnstiles remain padlocked for the
forseeable future.

But a Hampden source told us last night: “There’s a great deal of frustration about some government proposals but there could be good news for the game if indeed it does transpire that fans will be allowed to return to some grounds, albeit in limited numbers.

“That’s what football now has to iron out with the government and the questions we need answered are simple. Can fans come back when the five tier restrictions are put in place? How many? And when?

“We’re hoping for some positive answers.”

Record Sport has also learned of growing unrest among some of the biggest clubs who still fear fans will only be able to return in those areas of the country deemed to be in level 0 and level 1.

The measures were discussed last night at a meeting of football’s Joint Response Group and we understand there’s dismay in some quarters and a serious concern that the game is about to be unfairly penalised again.

One source told us: “There’s a lot of anger about the government’s proposals and, in particular, the plans to keep all fans locked out even for those clubs in tier two.

“When you consider that tier two allows amusement arcades and cinemas to stay open you can understand why football feels so aggrieved.

“When you consider that cinemas are able to screen our games live it becomes absurd. How can it possibly be safer for fans to watch matches in an enclosed space rather than outdoors inside
a stadium?

“It’s like a bad joke and no one is laughing. We are hoping that government can be made to see sense, even at this late stage.”

Speaking at her briefing on Monday, the FM said further details of the criteria for each level will be laid out on Tuesday.

The tiered programme forms part of the Scottish Government’s strategic framework will also be debated at Holyrood before its implementation on November 2.

 

[KirkySuperSub]

If any truth in the 'leaked document' all over the news the last day or so about Lanarkshire's expected Tier 4 restrictions, I don't think fans will be seeing live football at  Fir Park any time soon.

[wellwell91]

26 minutes ago, KirkySuperSub said:

If any truth in the 'leaked document' all over the news the last day or so about Lanarkshire's expected Tier 4 restrictions, I don't think fans will be seeing live football at  Fir Park any time soon.

Even if it goes into Tier 3 that would mean only 6 people from 2 households could meeting  outdoors 

But some people want to travel all over the country to watch a game of football !!!

I’ve asked before but not had an answer how many paying fans ( remember season ticket holders have already paid ) do we need in the ground for it to be financially viable for the club ??

[weeyin]

I'm all for letting clubs open their gates in a controlled manner. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I can't see many doing it (which would reduce the risk further), and I've really enjoyed watching the early round FA Cup games that had terracing and spectators.

Right at this moment, however, I'd much rather our clubs were working out agreement on the rules of how to manage Covid-related postponements and what the league plans to do if we can't complete all the fixtures.

 

[santheman]

9 minutes ago, weeyin said:

I'm all for letting clubs open their gates in a controlled manner. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I can't see many doing it (which would reduce the risk further), and I've really enjoyed watching the early round FA Cup games that had terracing and spectators.

Right at this moment, however, I'd much rather our clubs were working out agreement on the rules of how to manage Covid-related postponements and what the league plans to do if we can't complete all the fixtures.

 

For fairness I think  it would have to be a case of all or nothing for letting fans back in.

It would be unfair, if for instance, Aberdeen got some fans back and the advantages that would bring and we didn’t simply because of our geographical location

[CoF]

44 minutes ago, santheman said:

For fairness I think  it would have to be a case of all or nothing for letting fans back in.

It would be unfair, if for instance, Aberdeen got some fans back and the advantages that would bring and we didn’t simply because of our geographical location

Not for me. If Aberdeen can get fans in while we can't then so be it. I'd much rather fans were in somewhere rather than waiting for the whole country to be ready.

I imagine most players would also prefer a handful of opposition fans over a completely empty stadium. 

[weeyin]

47 minutes ago, santheman said:

For fairness I think  it would have to be a case of all or nothing for letting fans back in.

It would be unfair, if for instance, Aberdeen got some fans back and the advantages that would bring and we didn’t simply because of our geographical location

My point though is that even if all clubs found themselves able to let a limited number of fans in, most will not - including ourselves - as it would be a loss maker.

When the English leagues trialed it with home-fans only recently, 7 clubs allowed fans in and only 2 home teams won, so at least initially there was no major advantage to those clubs (albeit a small sample size).

[Burn_Broomfield]

31 minutes ago, weeyin said:

My point though is that even if all clubs found themselves able to let a limited number of fans in, most will not - including ourselves - as it would be a loss maker.

Probably not as much of a loss maker as not being able to sell 4000 season tickets next season I'd imagine.

[weeyin]

12 minutes ago, Burn_Broomfield said:

Probably not as much of a loss maker as not being able to sell 4000 season tickets next season I'd imagine.

That assumes we can get 4000 people in every week between now and the end of the season rather than a different 400 people every week for  a few games in between lockdowns.

[Ya Bezzer!]

43 minutes ago, weeyin said:

My point though is that even if all clubs found themselves able to let a limited number of fans in, most will not - including ourselves - as it would be a loss maker.

So the club expects fans to pay for season tickets but then not let them in as it's an inconvenience?

I didn't buy a season ticket this season mainly due to having no income myself but also never really expecting to actually see a game.  

However the club did encourage fans to buy season tickets with various 'perks' as if they would be able to attend.  I wonder how season ticket holders that did pay for a ticket will feel if there is no government restriction to attending (even if it is restricted numbers) but the club decides against doing so.  

Personally I wouldn't be very happy about that but since I didn't buy one it's not a problem for me.  Over to you guys.

[weeyin]

2 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

So the club expects fans to pay for season tickets but then not let them in as it's an inconvenience?

I didn't buy a season ticket this season mainly due to having no income myself but also never really expecting to actually see a game.  

However the club did encourage fans to buy season tickets with various 'perks' as if they would be able to attend.  I wonder how season ticket holders that did pay for a ticket will feel if there is no government restriction to attending (even if it is restricted numbers) but the club decides against doing so.  

Personally I wouldn't be very happy about that but since I didn't buy one it's not a problem for me.  Over to you guys.

The club has guaranteed a full season of games for everyone who bought a season ticket.

And free access to all home game streams while fans aren't allowed in.

So nobody is losing out as far as I can tell.

Personally, if I had a season ticket I'd rather be able to use it when 100% crowds are allowed in rather than a few hundred, but that might change if the ban last too long.