Fans back into stadiums

[Ya Bezzer!]

3 minutes ago, weeyin said:

The club has guaranteed a full season of games for everyone who bought a season ticket.

And free access to all home game streams while fans aren't allowed in.

So nobody is losing out as far as I can tell.

Personally, if I had a season ticket I'd rather be able to use it when 100% crowds are allowed in rather than a few hundred, but that might change if the ban last too long.

That's fine and all and your personal preference is entirely down to you but the main issue is still that people have paid for entry but wouldn't be getting in despite a lifting of a supporter ban.

OK, it's very much a hypothetical question as I don't see restrictions being lifted in Lanarkshire for a while but I just wonder what people would feel about that.

[weeyin]

As most of the season ticket holders are Well Society members, I'm sure they could press the issue if it ever happened. Then you would need a fair system to select who gets in, of course. How many from a family, any age restrictions to protect the elderly fans etc.

I'd prefer the club didn't intentionally go out of their way to lose money in these circumstances, but if the majority decide that is what they want to do, then so be it.

And I say all of this as someone who has been 100% in favour of opening grounds as soon as possible. I just don't think it makes sense for clubs like ours until the numbers involved can be larger.

[steelboy]

There is no chance of any fans during the winter in the top division. This is just football being used for PR again by the Scottish Government.

[Andy_P]

6 minutes ago, steelboy said:

There is no chance of any fans during the winter in the top division. This is just football being used for PR again by the Scottish Government.

Are you sure  it's not just you attempting to mix some fairly transparent clickbait and the re-classification of the Covid-threat levels to fit your pre-determined view that everything the Scottish Government does is with a view to entice people to vote for them in an election six months away?

[Stuwell2]

26 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

Are you sure  it's not just you attempting to mix some fairly transparent clickbait and the re-classification of the Covid-threat levels to fit your pre-determined view that everything the Scottish Government does is with a view to entice people to vote for them in an election six months away?

If it’s not about votes, why is the government bothering to make special arrangements for football? 

[steelboy]

It's clearly just an attempt to make some positive headlines during a week when most people are waking up to exactly how shite this winter is going to be. 

Anyone who believes that the SG is seriously considering letting fans into games was probably expecting pubs and restaurants only to be shut for a 'two week circuit breaker'. 

[Goggles & Flippers]

I feel I may have earned the right to a view on this.

As far as I can see the government can do no right here. For many its draconian and for others it is too little too late. Issue is with social media is everyone has a voice it just tends to be the biggest roasters who post the most and shout the loudest ...... I shall refrain from pointing any fingers. I'll hold my hands up and say if I wasn't affected I would have had a healthy feeling of invulnerability and arrogance. Since I have been affected much more than most I have a cautious respect for the virus and what can develop.

It comes back to the selfishness of many those lifestyles have been eroded and their intolerance to inconvenience. I can only imagine this is fuelled by:

• a) I'm young so it won't hit me as bad as it would a granny
• b) hubris and perceived personal fatigue of adhering to a few basic requests
• c) some bullshit and misplaced rant how they are looking out for hospitality workers and the economy
• d) citing personal freedom and a nefarious government plot or
• e) itching for their hole.

Now the debate seems to be tailored local shutdowns over a blanket UK wide one. It's fuelled by whataboutery .... "why can I go to a bank and stand in a queue, go shopping in a supermarket but not have a drink in a pub with music on?", "Why can someone in London can go for a pint and go back to a friends house with 5 pals from 5 other houses?". I even seen it on here on Saturday where people assumed its Grimmy as Barnsley is tier three and he must of got days off in the past month. Lets ignore that Glasgow and Lanarkshire are as contagious as any of the worst pants anywhere else in the UK at present.

There are reasons for all of this not fuelled by conspiracy theories or megalomaniac devious political leaders. It is devised by public health experts, immunologists, virologists, NHS logisticians, other medial professionals, statisticians and of course politicians as they ultimately issue and direct enforcement of policy.

When this hit if we limited people visiting the UK and only allowed residents or nationals to return, tested them in the airport and ports upon arrival and sent them home under quarantine then this would be mitigated and we wouldn't have one of the worst statistics in the world from preventable deaths. Localised measures are the way forward but only if people adhere to the rules and there's a high degree of "fuck it" just now. There was support and Dunkirk/Blitz spirit back in March through to May but that has dwindled. Evidence is how many OF fans travelled to Fife or over into Cumbria/Lancashire. The amount who gave it serious thought or planned it shows where we are.

Our society went through a change in the 80's due to Thatcherism where the self and a notion of as long as I'm OK, to hell with everyone else seeped into wide British society. Community cohesion and compassion eroded, Christ even empathy did too. We are predominately a more socially minded country than down south but as a whole things changed here too just not to the same degree.

Flow said privately in July that they'd be nobody in FP before Ne'erday when there was soft talk about a mid September opening of grounds. Safe to say that has been an astute observation.

[0Neils40yarder]

4 hours ago, santheman said:

For fairness I think  it would have to be a case of all or nothing for letting fans back in.

It would be unfair, if for instance, Aberdeen got some fans back and the advantages that would bring and we didn’t simply because of our geographical location

Aberdeen shouldn't be punished because covid is high in NLC

[Andy_P]

1 hour ago, Stuwell2 said:

If it’s not about votes, why is the government bothering to make special arrangements for football? 

Were it genuinely the case the Scottish Government were seeking to covet the votes of football supporters in Scotland they could have followed the line adopted in several other European countries weeks ago and opened stadia in an even restricted form. That they haven't and for the last three months have left themselves open to criticism by fans, pundits, club representatives and whoever else wants to have a pop, justified or otherwise, does not suggest to me these actions are taken with vote winning in mind.

And you'll be aware that rugby is in  exactly the same situation with both Glasgow and Edinburgh playing behind closed doors as indeed did Scotland when they hosted Georgia on Friday evening.

For me forthcoming discussions in the immediate future with the footballing and rugby authorities are sensible to have. There has been a re-classification of the Covid arrangements announced,  UEFA I believed changed their guidelines  in terms of fans attending shortly before the last set of internationals and there further games to come next month as well as the ongoing European ties.  There are Scotland rugby internationals in November and December too.  Clubs are feeling the lack of fans.  It makes perfect sense to reconvene to discuss how the land is lying and what the situation is for everyone around the table.

 I have not seen anyone with the authority to make it happen however quoted or even infer that the opening of stadiums is imminent. It's clickbait pure and simple, which given and given as steelboy suggests, is almost certainly not going to happen, is only likely to have the effect of whipping up more of a frenzy by whose who believe they are being hard done by. A cynic might suggest that is ultimately the point of such pieces.

But football fans who I continually read already perceive themselves to be second class citizens, who have been denied access to stadiums, who having been given a chink of light by "a source" in the Daily Record, that they might return have their hopes dashed by the Scottish Government - and that's supposed to be them trying to win votes?  I don't buy it.

 

 

 

[Kmcalpin]

17 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

When this hit if we limited people visiting the UK and only allowed residents or nationals to return, tested them in the airport and ports upon arrival and sent them home under quarantine then this would be mitigated and we wouldn't have one of the worst statistics in the world from preventable deaths. Localised measures are the way forward but only if people adhere to the rules and there's a high degree of "fuck it" just now. There was support and Dunkirk/Blitz spirit back in March through to May but that has dwindled. Evidence is how many OF fans travelled to Fife or over into Cumbria/Lancashire. The amount who gave it serious thought or planned it shows where we are.

Our society went through a change in the 80's due to Thatcherism where the self and a notion of as long as I'm OK, to hell with everyone else seeped into wide British society. Community cohesion and compassion eroded, Christ even empathy did too. We are predominately a more socially minded country than down south but as a whole things changed here too just not to the same degree.

Good post Goggles.  I think many, possibly even most, folk have breached the Covid 19 guidelines in some way. Mostly in a very minor way though.  However as you say a "significant minority" are simply not prepared to do so ie large scale house parties, refusal to wear face coverings, refusal to self isolate or quarantine. Surprisingly, its sometimes those you'd least expect  to breach guidelines or be irresponsible. Its costing all of us especially the elderly and vulnerable. I don't doubt that a significant proportion of infections are down to selfishness, although financial considerations do come into it to some extent.  Not being Political but you're right about Thatcherism and you've been able to see evidence on these very fora for some years now - "I'm all right Jack" & "Whats in it for me?" That said these fora have also shown the best in our society from time to time.  I can't see fans back in grounds for months to come maybe even until next season. We all need hope though to pull us through.    

[Stuwell2]

On 10/27/2020 at 5:26 PM, Andy_P said:

Were it genuinely the case the Scottish Government were seeking to covet the votes of football supporters in Scotland they could have followed the line adopted in several other European countries weeks ago and opened stadia in an even restricted form. That they haven't and for the last three months have left themselves open to criticism by fans, pundits, club representatives and whoever else wants to have a pop, justified or otherwise, does not suggest to me these actions are taken with vote winning in mind.

And you'll be aware that rugby is in  exactly the same situation with both Glasgow and Edinburgh playing behind closed doors as indeed did Scotland when they hosted Georgia on Friday evening.

For me forthcoming discussions in the immediate future with the footballing and rugby authorities are sensible to have. There has been a re-classification of the Covid arrangements announced,  UEFA I believed changed their guidelines  in terms of fans attending shortly before the last set of internationals and there further games to come next month as well as the ongoing European ties.  There are Scotland rugby internationals in November and December too.  Clubs are feeling the lack of fans.  It makes perfect sense to reconvene to discuss how the land is lying and what the situation is for everyone around the table.

 I have not seen anyone with the authority to make it happen however quoted or even infer that the opening of stadiums is imminent. It's clickbait pure and simple, which given and given as steelboy suggests, is almost certainly not going to happen, is only likely to have the effect of whipping up more of a frenzy by whose who believe they are being hard done by. A cynic might suggest that is ultimately the point of such pieces.

But football fans who I continually read already perceive themselves to be second class citizens, who have been denied access to stadiums, who having been given a chink of light by "a source" in the Daily Record, that they might return have their hopes dashed by the Scottish Government - and that's supposed to be them trying to win votes?  I don't buy it.

 

 

 

I don’t think any politician does anything without some focus group examining the effect on votes so I stick by my point. 

[weeyin]

Politicians have looked down on football fans for as long as I can remember. In the last 50 years I can't think of more than a handful of them that were real fans of the game. As as a result, football has often been the whipping boy for their agendas and an easy scapegoat for societal issues.

That's one reason they reacted the way they did to Marcus Rashford's campaign.

 

[smeddum07]

For me there is a huge difference between Celtic Park and Mosset park here in moray. Fir park and most grounds we play at prob fall into the grey area. With infection where they are in the highlands no reason not to have fans in highland and lower league grounds could limit them like down in England to stop large numbers going. You could also have some fans at lowland league grounds in certain areas (would need to know more about local situation in all localities than I do).

we have treated everywhere with the same broad brush and the talk of fans especially in the old firm or no where seems very strange. All the highland league games I have been to was social distancing before I knew it was a thing add in face masks and some protection for the elderly like early entry and late exit would be completely doable IMO.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57571009

Minimum 2000 fans from 19th July

[StirlingDosser]

36 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57571009

Minimum 2000 fans from 19th July

I take issue with a blanket stadium capacity idea. We have four separate stands - entirely separate buildings. Any covid issues that arise would be contained within one area of the ground. The overall capacity of the stadium should not come into it, more so the capacity and ability to distance out within the one stand. 

We have a capacity of over 13k. There should be absolutely no issue in dispersing the average home support of around 4.5k across the four stands and still allowing in a small number of away fans. Release everyone out one stand at a time with a few minutes for each area to disperse. 

 

I personally hope we are in for that Airdrie game with some sort of away support as well. I'm dying for a Derby and sick of listening to that wee pup team in Hamilton claiming they're our rivals.

[weeyin]

Does a 2000 fan minimum mean clubs like Accies need to throw people into the ground to make up the necessary numbers?

 

(Aye, I know it doesn't - it just seems a very weird way to phrase it).

[Onthefringes]

14 minutes ago, StirlingDosser said:

I take issue with a blanket stadium capacity idea. We have four separate stands - entirely separate buildings. Any covid issues that arise would be contained within one area of the ground. The overall capacity of the stadium should not come into it, more so the capacity and ability to distance out within the one stand. 

We have a capacity of over 13k. There should be absolutely no issue in dispersing the average home support of around 4.5k across the four stands and still allowing in a small number of away fans. Release everyone out one stand at a time with a few minutes for each area to disperse. 

 

I personally hope we are in for that Airdrie game with some sort of away support as well. I'm dying for a Derby and sick of listening to that wee pup team in Hamilton claiming they're our rivals.

Whilst most can relate to your sentiment, you’ll find we only have three stands available for use with the Main Stand remaining in use for players, officials and society directors who found access no problem when others couldn’t.

Not a chance we’ll be allowed in at Airdrie, mores the pity.

[dennyc]

2 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Whilst most can relate to your sentiment, you’ll find we only have three stands available for use with the Main Stand remaining in use for players, officials and society directors who found access no problem when others couldn’t.

Not a chance we’ll be allowed in at Airdrie, mores the pity.

And maybe the away stand for the visiting team/officials?

I think the 2k minimum phrasing is because applications can be made to increase that figure on a game by game basis. So it is up to Clubs to come up with a layout to support an increase above the minimum. So the 2k is what we can do without referral to anybody. ......and 1k for the grounds that are not all seated. 

 

 

 

[Onthefringes]

2 hours ago, dennyc said:

And maybe the away stand for the visiting team/officials?

I think the 2k minimum phrasing is because applications can be made to increase that figure on a game by game basis. So it is up to Clubs to come up with a layout to support an increase above the minimum. So the 2k is what we can do without referral to anybody. ......and 1k for the grounds that are not all seated. 

 

 

 

Could well be the case. No match day experience that although the über fans who’ll beat a path to the ground will disagree. Mock outrage when some don’t gain entry…

Against modern football

[StirlingDosser]

5 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Whilst most can relate to your sentiment, you’ll find we only have three stands available for use with the Main Stand remaining in use for players, officials and society directors who found access no problem when others couldn’t.

Not a chance we’ll be allowed in at Airdrie, mores the pity.

I don't see how the main stand being used for players will impact attendance. Not like they will come into contact with supporters. If there is the need, no reason why the old lower enclosure couldn't be brought into use for reserve players. It's good enough for Flow each game !

[CoF]

 

5 hours ago, StirlingDosser said:

We have a capacity of over 13k. There should be absolutely no issue in dispersing the average home support of around 4.5k across the four stands and still allowing in a small number of away fans. Release everyone out one stand at a time with a few minutes for each area to disperse.

Yep. 180'000 fans in attendance across the final three euro games at the start of July. Whatever logic they are using there should easily translate to accomodating 5k into Fir Park. 

Unless of course yet another massive error of judgement from the UK government. Which is highly likely. 

[C&A not the shop]

With the 9th August plan to remove all legal requirements for social distancing then you have to assume you're looking at capacity crowds from then.  

So after 2 league games every one can get back in. Which seems a bit of a leap if you're holding it to 2000 for the first 2 fixtures.

[Kmcalpin]

50 minutes ago, C&A not the shop said:

With the 9th August plan to remove all legal requirements for social distancing then you have to assume you're looking at capacity crowds from then. 

We'll see.

Rules on outdoor gatherings have been and still are inconsistent and their enforcement/application equally so.

[dennyc]

4 hours ago, C&A not the shop said:

With the 9th August plan to remove all legal requirements for social distancing then you have to assume you're looking at capacity crowds from then.  

So after 2 league games every one can get back in. Which seems a bit of a leap if you're holding it to 2000 for the first 2 fixtures.

But they are not limiting it to 2000.  Any club can apply to increase that limit on a match by match basis from the outset. So if Motherwell want to increase that number they should be able to do so. Accommodating all Season Ticket Holders should not be that challenging. Rangers, Celtic Aberdeen Hearts are probably drawing up their applications right now. It is up do us to put forward a safe proposal.

 

"From 19 July, seated outdoor stadiums would be able to host 2,000 fans, and standing venues could accommodate 1000.

Applications could be made on a case-by-case basis to swell that, as was done for Hampden's Euro 2020 matches."

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Spotted this on FPC...

http://www.motherwell-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/motherwell_aim_for_2000_at_fir_park_in_july_956650/index.shtml

Quote

Motherwell has applied to North Lanarkshire Council for permission to allow 2,000 fans entry to Fir Park for the Premier Sports cup games in July.

Speaking to Peter Martin in a PLZ Soccer YouTube interview Alan Burrows revealed that the club has applied to the local authority for clearance to allow two thousand into Fir Park.  That is the maximum the stadium can hold while observing two metre distancing,

The club intends to ask supporters if they want to be considered for a place in the likely ballot for places.  There is a feeling that some may not yet feel comfortable with a return to a populated stadium.

Alan said “I’m really hopeful that the success of the vaccine rollout means that in August/September we’ll be able to get the overwhelming number of people who want to watch the match into Fir Park”.

Motherwell have two Premier Sports Cup home ties scheduled; on Saturdays 17 and 24 July against Queen of the South and Annan Athletic.

The last time there were spectators in Fir Park was on Wednesday 4 March 2020 when 3,191 turned out to see Motherwell enjoy a 4-1 win over Ross County.