Season 2020’21: Game 7 St Johnstone (H)

[Welldaft Mk1]

I would expect the club if sensible would have budgeted for 2 rounds in Europe.  The thinking being we would have been unseeded in this round. The irony being we have Coleraine to thank for that. 

So if we do win in N Ireland then that is an extra 300k Euro that was Probably not budgeted for. 

I am quite sure the club would buy a striker / winger or both if we are still around foot of table by end of transfer window now or more so at Xmas.  The good news is we have the funds to do so should it be required. 

of course a lot also depends on what happens with Campbell.... I hope we do not sell him but if he keeps playing and scoring like he has been then I would expect a bid or two. 

[wellwell91]

7 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I would expect the club if sensible would have budgeted for 2 rounds in Europe.  The thinking being we would have been unseeded in this round. The irony being we have Coleraine to thank for that. 

So if we do win in N Ireland then that is an extra 300k Euro that was Probably not budgeted for. 

I am quite sure the club would buy a striker / winger or both if we are still around foot of table by end of transfer window now or more so at Xmas.  The good news is we have the funds to do so should it be required. 

of course a lot also depends on what happens with Campbell.... I hope we do not sell him but if he keeps playing and scoring like he has been then I would expect a bid or two. 

Do not want to see Campbell go but he has done the right thing by the club and signed 2 contract extensions 

Even if we doubled his wages it would come nowhere near what he could earn at a Championship club like Stoke

Personally I think the wee man has earned it 

[Kmac]

16 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Do not want to see Campbell go but he has done the right thing by the club and signed 2 contract extensions 

Even if we doubled his wages it would come nowhere near what he could earn at a Championship club like Stoke

Personally I think the wee man has earned it 

If Campbell were to be sold we will have officially gone full frontal Dundee United. 

[Stuwell2]

You can buy as many strikers as you want but if we can’t get the ball to them inside the box then you’re wasting money. 

[livivoice]

Need to say that Lamie should be cut some slack.

As our first choice back 4 would be SOD/DEC/ Mc Ginley and Carroll with back up subs being Dunne ( I know!!) and Mugabi, I'm pretty certain Lamie was signed as no more than a squad player. 

What we are seeing with Lamie is what Livingston fans often said namely that he is a Championship level player whose value is largely restricted to him brought on late in games as an extra defender when defending  a lead.

I'm quite confident that once Carroll and Donnelly ( who can also be a CB option of course) are back, Lamie will drift onto the sidelines. Moreso as Bevis's form continues to improve and Mc Ginley builds up momentum.

Until then it's important we support Lamie so that we get the best from him

[Kmcalpin]

The bottom line is that we won yesterday and that brought a sense of relief. So in some respects it was job done. We're also not adrift at the bottom. But, thats as far it it goes.

As others have said the game was a mirror image of matches we've lost this season. Saints dominated possession (59%/41%), created/were gifted 5 chances and took none. We fashioned one, just one, chance ourselves, although Callum Davidson disagreed I believe as he would,  and took it.  Saints dominated midfield despite us trying to play 3-5-2, looked more committed and competitive and worked harder off the ball than we did but fortunately looked toothless in front of goal as Trevor Carson will gratefully tell you. For long spells our midfield was outfought and anonymous. Whether we tried to sit on our lead on our lead or not I don't know. We certainly missed McGinley when he went off.  Saints were gifted the freedom of our left flank late on and slung over cross after cross from there. Thankfully Gallagher and Mugabe were up to the task, although the latter was a bit overly clever at times. He has stepped up to the mark though. 

Overall, the defence, especially Lamie looked shaky at times, but in fairness they received little support from either Campbell or O'Hara. Polworth was largely anonymous throughout and created nothing. Allan Campbell scored a lovely goal and was far better going forward than defending. I did feel sorry for strikers as they were given nothing to work with and the promised crosses into the box just didn't materialise. Credit to White for soldiering on, but I really think he should have been taken off, before he was.  Our build up was slow, tiresome and very predictable.

I still feel that our problems lie primarily in midfield where things just aren't happening. Hylton is injured, I think, but in any event our wingers aren't doing it. With the cash coming into the club just now I'm not in favour of spunking it on more players but I'd give Robbo a wee bit to bring in a solid defensive midfielder on loan until January. That shouldn't break the bank.

[Kmcalpin]

31 minutes ago, Kmac said:

If Campbell were to be sold we will have officially gone full frontal Dundee United. 

Campbell might well move on who knows and when he does good luck to him as he's earned a move. The comparison with Dundee United isn't at all accurate as we'll have retained transfer income within the club, as opposed to paying off staff and external "investors" with the proceeds. Anyway this is how our business model works and its successful.

[MelvinBragg]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Campbell might well move on who knows and when he does good luck to him as he's earned a move. The comparison with Dundee United isn't at all accurate as we'll have retained transfer income within the club, as opposed to paying off staff and external "investors" with the proceeds. Anyway this is how our business model works and its successful.

Are you sure about that? Heard talk that Robinson gets a percentage of every sale we make...

[Kmcalpin]

32 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

Are you sure about that? Heard talk that Robinson gets a percentage of every sale we make...

I'm not in the know, but its the first I've heard of this.

In the case of Dundee United, Jackie Macnamara received a modest percentage of transfer income but the external investors were entitled to virtually all of the income, amounting to several millions, in return for their "donations" to the club, when it was very heavily in debt.   We are definitely not in that boat.

[steelboy]

1 hour ago, livivoice said:

Need to say that Lamie should be cut some slack.

As our first choice back 4 would be SOD/DEC/ Mc Ginley and Carroll with back up subs being Dunne ( I know!!) and Mugabi, I'm pretty certain Lamie was signed as no more than a squad player. 

What we are seeing with Lamie is what Livingston fans often said namely that he is a Championship level player whose value is largely restricted to him brought on late in games as an extra defender when defending  a lead.

I'm quite confident that once Carroll and Donnelly ( who can also be a CB option of course) are back, Lamie will drift onto the sidelines. Moreso as Bevis's form continues to improve and Mc Ginley builds up momentum.

Until then it's important we support Lamie so that we get the best from him

We've not seen any evidence that McGinley is a better centre half than Lamie.

He's not exactly built for it. 

[steelboy]

40 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

Are you sure about that? Heard talk that Robinson gets a percentage of every sale we make...

If that's true we need a top to bottom clear out. It's a recipe for corruption 

[Welldaft Mk1]

7 minutes ago, steelboy said:

If that's true we need a top to bottom clear out. It's a recipe for corruption 

Think MB is on the wind up on this one referring back to DDee U and McNamara. 

Losing Campbell would be a huge blow. His goals have contributed to 4 out of the lowly 5 points we have. 

How much would it take to sell him ? 

I Appreciate he has a year left but I would say somewhere between James Scott and Turnbull do between £1.5 and £3m. If we did get a bid around £2m that would be hard to turn down. But we would absolutely need to reinvest some of that cash in a couple or 3 decent replacements. You almost would be looking for proven players and not gambles as that would be too risky. 

[wellsince75]

16 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

I think it was probably worth a shot, we needed someone out wide and to be fair he was still rated by a lot of Motherwell supporters. Sadly I think even at this stage he’s looking like someone that got a big move on the back of a short, hot streak.  I still feel McGinlay  could end up being a very good signing.

I agree that McGinley could be a good signing - if we play a back 4 it will be perfect for him at left back.   

it should be a choice between who to keep from Lamie and Mugabi in centre of defence. 

[wellsince75]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

The bottom line is that we won yesterday and that brought a sense of relief. So in some respects it was job done. We're also not adrift at the bottom. But, thats as far it it goes.

As others have said the game was a mirror image of matches we've lost this season. Saints dominated possession (59%/41%), created/were gifted 5 chances and took none. We fashioned one, just one, chance ourselves, although Callum Davidson disagreed I believe as he would,  and took it.  Saints dominated midfield despite us trying to play 3-5-2, looked more committed and competitive and worked harder off the ball than we did but fortunately looked toothless in front of goal as Trevor Carson will gratefully tell you. For long spells our midfield was outfought and anonymous. Whether we tried to sit on our lead on our lead or not I don't know. We certainly missed McGinley when he went off.  Saints were gifted the freedom of our left flank late on and slung over cross after cross from there. Thankfully Gallagher and Mugabe were up to the task, although the latter was a bit overly clever at times. He has stepped up to the mark though. 

Overall, the defence, especially Lamie looked shaky at times, but in fairness they received little support from either Campbell or O'Hara. Polworth was largely anonymous throughout and created nothing. Allan Campbell scored a lovely goal and was far better going forward than defending. I did feel sorry for strikers as they were given nothing to work with and the promised crosses into the box just didn't materialise. Credit to White for soldiering on, but I really think he should have been taken off, before he was.  Our build up was slow, tiresome and very predictable.

I still feel that our problems lie primarily in midfield where things just aren't happening. Hylton is injured, I think, but in any event our wingers aren't doing it. With the cash coming into the club just now I'm not in favour of spunking it on more players but I'd give Robbo a wee bit to bring in a solid defensive midfielder on loan until January. That shouldn't break the bank.

really enjoyed this post, summarised  well. 

Agree that midfields our problem area,  I think we're missing Donnelly/a defensive midfield player and thats messed up our formation.

Yesterday we had 5 in midfield but both Odonnell and McGinley are defenders which prevents us moving from midfield to attack well.  Both looked a bit out of place.  Our wingers are average which is why we weren't penetrating defences when we had possession in the earlier games. 

Personal view is 4 -4 - 2  (without wingers - just wingbacks) or 4-3-3 (with 3 strikers)  could work better for us against most teams. 

We need to find a formation and give it a run of 5-6 games to bed in. 

[MelvinBragg]

34 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Think MB is on the wind up on this one referring back to DDee U and McNamara. 

Nope. Around 8% was the figure I was told that Robinson gets of any transfer fee. Could be bullshit but reasonable (and unbiased) source that told me...

[Orinoco]

Would the club accounts confirm this hearsay?

[MelvinBragg]

4 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

Would the club accounts confirm this hearsay?

I don't know. Like I say, I only heard this last week from someone close to the club but it could be bullshit. Speaking about our form in general, this individual stated that 'Results keep going as they are, he might just walk away. He got his commission from the Turnbull deal'. It wasn't like this person was going out of their way to tell me this. No reason for me or this person to make this up. They say they get on fine with Robinson..

Will it show up in club accounts? I have no idea.  Maybe under bonuses, agents fees, commission?

To be honest, I don't have a huge issue with it. Maybe all clubs do it, maybe given our model is to develop and sell, this is a form of performance related pay...? I only raised it because someone said that all the cash was going to the club...

[ropy]

1 hour ago, MelvinBragg said:

Are you sure about that? Heard talk that Robinson gets a percentage of every sale we make...

It would seem reasonable that one of the factors in an end of season bonus was a profit in player trading.

[Great Balls of Shire]

4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

The bottom line is that we won yesterday and that brought a sense of relief. So in some respects it was job done. We're also not adrift at the bottom. But, thats as far it it goes.

As others have said the game was a mirror image of matches we've lost this season. Saints dominated possession (59%/41%), created/were gifted 5 chances and took none. We fashioned one, just one, chance ourselves, although Callum Davidson disagreed I believe as he would,  and took it.  Saints dominated midfield despite us trying to play 3-5-2, looked more committed and competitive and worked harder off the ball than we did but fortunately looked toothless in front of goal as Trevor Carson will gratefully tell you. For long spells our midfield was outfought and anonymous. Whether we tried to sit on our lead on our lead or not I don't know. We certainly missed McGinley when he went off.  Saints were gifted the freedom of our left flank late on and slung over cross after cross from there. Thankfully Gallagher and Mugabe were up to the task, although the latter was a bit overly clever at times. He has stepped up to the mark though. 

Overall, the defence, especially Lamie looked shaky at times, but in fairness they received little support from either Campbell or O'Hara. Polworth was largely anonymous throughout and created nothing. Allan Campbell scored a lovely goal and was far better going forward than defending. I did feel sorry for strikers as they were given nothing to work with and the promised crosses into the box just didn't materialise. Credit to White for soldiering on, but I really think he should have been taken off, before he was.  Our build up was slow, tiresome and very predictable.

I still feel that our problems lie primarily in midfield where things just aren't happening. Hylton is injured, I think, but in any event our wingers aren't doing it. With the cash coming into the club just now I'm not in favour of spunking it on more players but I'd give Robbo a wee bit to bring in a solid defensive midfielder on loan until January. That shouldn't break the bank.

It wasn’t brilliant but points were vital.

Having lots of possession means little if you can’t score , as we have found out. I didn’t think they ever cut us open bar Lamie’s  assists. 

They swung over plenty crosses but our defence dealt with them , that’s what they’re meant to do .

yep, there’s a bit to do but I rather have the points than 60 % possession, Robbo said as much , thst we allowed them the ball and hit on the break.

[Great Balls of Shire]

2 hours ago, MelvinBragg said:

Nope. Around 8% was the figure I was told that Robinson gets of any transfer fee. Could be bullshit but reasonable (and unbiased) source that told me...

Here we go, I heard a rumour from the canteen wummin....

Sounds bollocks to me

We get a vital win so the usual crew try another angle to nail him.

Even if it were true , it gives an incentive to develop players , and it wouldn’t be getting done behind anyone’s back , It won’t be Robinson who decides when and if a player goes 

[MelvinBragg]

3 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Here we go, I heard a rumour from the canteen wummin....

Sounds bollocks to me

We get a vital win so the usual crew try another angle to nail him.

Even if it were true , it gives an incentive to develop players , and it wouldn’t be getting done behind anyone’s back , It won’t be Robinson who decides when and if a player goes 

Before you want to jump all over my post accusing me of having a go at Robinson, maybe look at my follow up posts where I say it's not necessarily a bad thing and I was just pointing out that out as someone had said all the money was going directly to the club...

[CoF]

I've watched every competitive game so far this season apart from Hibs and I honestly can't remember a Motherwell player getting on the end of a corner. With big Peter gone, has our goal threat at set pieces dried up completely? 

[Welldaft Mk1]

12 minutes ago, CoF said:

I've watched every competitive game so far this season apart from Hibs and I honestly can't remember a Motherwell player getting on the end of a corner. With big Peter gone, has our goal threat at set pieces dried up completely? 

This is very noticeable for me also. Polworth delivered some decent crosses yesterday and by in large his corners are decent. But all I see is Big Bevis or White heading it towards the moon.  

What makes it all the more annoying is how many times opposition players get their heads on the end of more crosses. It is a key part of the game but it looks as if it is hit and hope. I would certainly like us to see players attacking crosses or attempting too. 

As for the Robinson takes a % of player sales chat. I very much think this is bullshit. I don’t see our custodians offering such a deal to any Manager. His pay will reflect our performance and also money coming in and there may well be bonuses etc  He obvs got an increase and better contract around the time N Ireland were sniffing about. Deservedly so. 

[Yodo]

18 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

This is very noticeable for me also. Polworth delivered some decent crosses yesterday and by in large his corners are decent. But all I see is Big Bevis or White heading it towards the moon.  

What makes it all the more annoying is how many times opposition players get their heads on the end of more crosses. It is a key part of the game but it looks as if it is hit and hope. I would certainly like us to see players attacking crosses or attempting too. 

As for the Robinson takes a % of player sales chat. I very much think this is bullshit. I don’t see our custodians offering such a deal to any Manager. His pay will reflect our performance and also money coming in and there may well be bonuses etc  He obvs got an increase and better contract around the time N Ireland were sniffing about. Deservedly so. 

So we are bottom of the league our form is terrible and you think the manager deserves a pay rise . Jesus no wonder we are where we are when supporters like u think he's doing a good job 

[stv]

He has to rebuild his team every season as all the decent or promising players are sold or leave for better wages. He has a shit budget , signing players against teams with bigger budgets and new teams can take a few games to gel. Give him a bit of credit for sticking with it and doing no too bad. . We r in a much better position now compared to when he was appointed . Who would do a better all round job given the circumstances ?  Its Motherwell no Barcalona.