Season 2020’21: Game 30: St Mirren (A)

[Haggischomper]

Just go out there and beat them.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Kmcalpin]

7 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

My worry is that despite us being mucked about somehow Killie and St Mirren will still be seen as the victims here.

Yes Iain. We should keep a low profile though. There's no way we'd win a PR battle against St Mirren and by association, Kilmarnock.

[weeyin]

14 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

My worry is that despite us being mucked about somehow Killie and St Mirren will still be seen as the victims here.

Victims for infecting their own players through wanton negligence? They're lucky one of their own infected staff didn't make a claim for health and safety breaches

If I was our Board, I'd be insisting we receive documented evidence that all the required protocols have been followed before every game we play against them, and ask for extra testing at their expense.

[CoF]

So long as the SPFL turn a blind eye to other breaches then this is more-or-less the right decision. The original punishment was incredibly harsh in that context. I say more-or-less as the only disappointment is the lack of recognition about the impact on us and Accies, and the fact they can now field a full strength team. 

 

[Kmcalpin]

Couldn't the SFA suspend the players who flouted the protocols? That would restore a measure of justice.

[Andy_P]

Reading the extremely brief SPFL statement they don't give the impression of being particularly enamoured with the SFA's decision.  It reeks of the kind of brief, embittered acknowledgement that is released by a club when they've been slapped down.  In fact it's not a kick in the arse off a Celtic style "seeking clarification" press release.

Quote

SPFL statement

Kilmarnock FC and St Mirren FC appeals

A spokesperson for the SPFL said: “We note the decisions of the Scottish FA Appellate Tribunal in relation to the sanctions imposed on Kilmarnock FC and St Mirren FC by an independent SPFL Tribunal.

"We will reschedule the three matches as soon as reasonably practicable, in line with the decisions. We await written reasons for the decisions from the Scottish FA Appellate Tribunal.”

 

[underboyleheating]

Any reason why we are not appealing this decision? As it stands we appear to be just bending over and accepting this change of heart?

[Andy_P]

5 minutes ago, underboyleheating said:

Any reason why we are not appealing this decision? As it stands we appear to be just bending over and accepting this change of heart?

What do we have to appeal though? We were under no threat of sanction.

I tend to agree with the earlier posts that whilst we have been considerably inconvenienced the best course of action for us it to keep our counsel, at least publicly, and ensure that six points from six are secured when the fixtures are eventually played. 

If the club make a song and dance about it and you just stand to be accused of showing desperation in trying to get six points without earning them.  I think it's fine as fans for us to make the obvious points but much as we've been messed around we would ultimately gain nothing from any public complaining.

[star sail]

2 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

What do we have to appeal though? We were under no threat of sanction.

I tend to agree with the earlier posts that whilst we have been considerably inconvenienced the best course of action for us it to keep our counsel, at least publicly, and ensure that six points from six are secured when the fixtures are eventually played. 

If the club make a song and dance about it and you just stand to be accused of showing desperation in trying to get six points without earning them.  I think it's fine as fans for us to make the obvious points but much as we've been messed around we would ultimately gain nothing from any public complaining.

I agree with this. It is a public relations battle the club would not win and whilst it could be argued that it does not matter what the wider football community thinks, it is a least a distraction and at most an added pressure the club do not need. 

As a footballing person I would like to see the 6 points won on the football field and if this decision does not put a bit of fire into the bellies of this squad then even Jurgen Klopp would not be able to motivate this team. 

Regardless of the circumstances Motherwell find themselves in, it is proof positive, if any was ever needed that the footballing governing bodies in Scotland are totally inept and it turns Scottish football once again into a circus. 

[Spiderpig]

9 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

What do we have to appeal though? We were under no threat of sanction.

I tend to agree with the earlier posts that whilst we have been considerably inconvenienced the best course of action for us it to keep our counsel, at least publicly, and ensure that six points from six are secured when the fixtures are eventually played. 

If the club make a song and dance about it and you just stand to be accused of showing desperation in trying to get six points without earning them.  I think it's fine as fans for us to make the obvious points but much as we've been messed around we would ultimately gain nothing from any public complaining.

Agreed re complaining we would only look desperate for the points, and it's a PR battle we would never win.

However the whole shambles that this process has been needs to be questioned, that requires all of the clubs to start asking the hard questions of the SPFL / SFA but as we seen too many times it's all prevarication and nothing  ever gets done.

The SPFL wanted to bring in specific rule changes at the start of the pandemic to ensure all covid eventualities would be covered but the clubs failed to approve them.

So until the clubs ditch their own narrow self interests, and get together to address the shambolic governance of the game in Scotland we are going to see this nonsense every season, we are a laughing stock.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Unquestionably sporting advantage gained.

Cynical move by both clubs? Killie have more of a defence than St Mirren do as Ayrshire NHS told them to cancel.

Kinda makes a mockery of the stringent rules most other clubs have been adopting to mitigate things.

Through no fault of our own we've been messed about, been awarded points, had them taken away, now have to find time to play the games, just reeks of incompetence and mismanagement.

Rules in black and white,  flouted, so what's the defence? Just shows in life if you get an expensive lawyer, they can even get OJ off.

[Alpha1886]

45 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Agreed re complaining we would only look desperate for the points, and it's a PR battle we would never win.

However the whole shambles that this process has been needs to be questioned, that requires all of the clubs to start asking the hard questions of the SPFL / SFA but as we seen too many times it's all prevarication and nothing  ever gets done.

The SPFL wanted to bring in specific rule changes at the start of the pandemic to ensure all covid eventualities would be covered but the clubs failed to approve them.

So until the clubs ditch their own narrow self interests, and get together to address the shambolic governance of the game in Scotland we are going to see this nonsense every season, we are a laughing stock.

Agree - but

The SPFL is operated as a corporation and is owned by the 42 member clubs. Each club is a shareholder, with each having a vote on issues such as rule changes and contracts. The clubs elect a six-man board of directors to oversee the daily operations of the league.

 

[Stu92]

44 minutes ago, Alpha1886 said:

Agree - but

The SPFL is operated as a corporation and is owned by the 42 member clubs. Each club is a shareholder, with each having a vote on issues such as rule changes and contracts. The clubs elect a six-man board of directors to oversee the daily operations of the league.

 

The SPFL (via independent panel) gave the decision in our favour. It was the SFA that overturned it.

I’m not sure how much ‘blame’ can be aimed at the SPFL here. The process of having the independent panel adjudicate in the interests of fairness was the right one I think and the decision was pretty clearly justified. They wanted executive powers to try and sort these things out before the season even began, and weren’t given them. I don’t think they’ve done much wrong.

I know that the SPFL and the SFA are separate bodies, but they’d surely be on a similar page on matters such as this. By cancelling one another out they’ve just made the game in Scotland into a joke, which makes the end outcome much more infuriating than if the initial punishment had just been the slap on the wrist and token fine.

As others have said, I don’t think the club should be saying anything on the decision publicly. I would expect Burrows et al to be following up in private however, for all the good it will do. I doubt that stipulations over what players can and can’t play would had to have been outlined as part of the decision. 

[numpty]

2 hours ago, underboyleheating said:

Any reason why we are not appealing this decision? As it stands we appear to be just bending over and accepting this change of heart?

We were not the subject of any proceedings, so we have literally nothing to appeal.

[Squirrelhumper]

Find some of the comments on this thread laughable.

We were told by NHS Ayrshire and Arran that our full squad had to isolate, we had no choice whether to play the game or not. We literally had no players. 

The decision to make the full squad isolate was a health board decision, and we've seen this vary across the country. 

The decision was always going to be overturned as it was a laughable decision in the first place.

How many 3-0 defeats have been handed out in England for same reason this season? None.

I understand why you would be annoyed at losing out on an easy 6 pts but fuck me, the original penalty was farcical.

Every club will have had minor covid breaches. Was only a few months ago Motherwell directors weren't paying any attention whatsoever to COVID rules in Coleraine. 

If anyone thinks Motherwell should be awarded 6 pts and 6 goals for this then they need to have a word with themselves. 

 

[Goggles & Flippers]

Few inaccuracies in your post:

"full squad had to isolate" ..... "minor covid breaches" ...... care to square that circle?

6 points yes but 6 goals don't affect GD.

Rules were simple, if not this is the penalty. Don't do A, B or C, wash your D, avoid E and definitely don't do F. 

Only minor thing in this whole affair is the punishment given for being roasters.

Also love a bit of whataboutery.

[Pettywulliegrew-2]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Find some of the comments on this thread laughable.

We were told by NHS Ayrshire and Arran that our full squad had to isolate, we had no choice whether to play the game or not. We literally had no players. 

The decision to make the full squad isolate was a health board decision, and we've seen this vary across the country. 

The decision was always going to be overturned as it was a laughable decision in the first place.

How many 3-0 defeats have been handed out in England for same reason this season? None.

I understand why you would be annoyed at losing out on an easy 6 pts but fuck me, the original penalty was farcical.

Every club will have had minor covid breaches. Was only a few months ago Motherwell directors weren't paying any attention whatsoever to COVID rules in Coleraine. 

If anyone thinks Motherwell should be awarded 6 pts and 6 goals for this then they need to have a word with themselves. 

 

We don’t play in England..........and if we did you wouldn’t be in the big boys league with a plastic pitch ......only saying 

COVID directions from local health boards are farcical.... my wife a nurse practitioner caught COVID which they tracked down to a  patient who had been in contact with another  nurse , both were constantly wearing full  PPE  .......did the place shut down/every one to self isolate .......no .......yet you lot breached protocols which you admitted to........football had been given exemptions which you clearly breached ......it’s about doing the right things ......we were ready for the game....so you deserved to b punished.......you will have probably picked up it’s people who breach the rules are spreading it

[Yassin]

4 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

If anyone thinks Motherwell should be awarded 6 pts and 6 goals for this then they need to have a word with themselves. 

Yeah. I think we should have got the points because it would have been very funny and also we really fucking need them but I'm struggling much argument beyond that point. I can understand the anger at how the SPFL eventually reached this conclusion after 3 months but the actual outcome... fair enough.

[Richie]

5 hours ago, Pettywulliegrew-2 said:

We don’t play in England..........

This is probably what's annoyed me most in this saga tbh.

Citing England, Italy etc as a defence.

As you say, completely different jurisdiction.

 

[mfc88]

9 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Find some of the comments on this thread laughable.

We were told by NHS Ayrshire and Arran that our full squad had to isolate, we had no choice whether to play the game or not. We literally had no players. 

The decision to make the full squad isolate was a health board decision, and we've seen this vary across the country. 

The decision was always going to be overturned as it was a laughable decision in the first place.

How many 3-0 defeats have been handed out in England for same reason this season? None.

I understand why you would be annoyed at losing out on an easy 6 pts but fuck me, the original penalty was farcical.

Every club will have had minor covid breaches. Was only a few months ago Motherwell directors weren't paying any attention whatsoever to COVID rules in Coleraine. 

If anyone thinks Motherwell should be awarded 6 pts and 6 goals for this then they need to have a word with themselves. 

 

Football aside, we are in the middle of a pandemic and no matter what you think of our government and how they've handled it, they need EVERYBODY on side, behaving, following rules to contain the virus. The fact people haven't is the very reason this country's in this mess. You only need to look at countries like Australia and NZ who acted quicker and, critically, harder than the UK to see that.

Killie and st mirren (the clubs, not rogue players) have, by their own admission, FAILED to comply. So what message is an absolutely pathetic punishment sending out? Yeah break the rules, it doesn't really matter.

Had they ordered the games to be replayed but given killie and st m a proper, non-suspended fine (say 150k) then ok - they have been dealt a proper punishment. 10k with 10k suspended is fuck all, you will make more than that back off pay per view streams of the games.

This debacle has taken over 3 months to close out and now, the only innocent parties in all this are losing out by having to shoehorn in the extra games before the split. What if we now have a covid outbreak, are out of action for 2 weeks and then need to fit an additional 4 games in before the split? I get you're happy with the outcome - I would be in your shoes - but if you don't accept that not only is the punishment a joke, but also that Motherwell and to a lesser extent, hamilton, have been fucked over here, there is no point even trying to debate it.

I only hope nicola sturgeon doesn't cotton on the the fact the sfa clearly don't give a shit about protocol breaches because, with everything else going on with celtic, and the lower leagues postponing, it would not surprise me if she suspended the game.

[bobbybingo]

10 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Every club will have had minor covid breaches. 

 

Aye, but how many have had 2 games postponed because of those breaches, and would've added a third, had they got their way? Were St Mirren told by their health board they couldn't play, or was that their own decision? They can celebrate this as a victory for 'justice' and 'common sense' all they want. It's actually a victory for lackadaisical bastards with a distinct lack of common sense sticking 2 fingers up at the rules that were put in place to let them work when thousands of others were not afforded that privilege. It smacks of the same pish Celtic tried to pull. Instead of holding their hands up, it's 'could've happened anywhere/to anyone' and 'poor wee us, we're the real victims here'.

And no, I don't want the points, I'd rather Motherwell skelped the pair of yous, fair and square. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

9 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Find some of the comments on this thread laughable.

We were told by NHS Ayrshire and Arran that our full squad had to isolate, we had no choice whether to play the game or not. We literally had no players. 

The decision to make the full squad isolate was a health board decision, and we've seen this vary across the country. 

The decision was always going to be overturned as it was a laughable decision in the first place.

How many 3-0 defeats have been handed out in England for same reason this season? None.

I understand why you would be annoyed at losing out on an easy 6 pts but fuck me, the original penalty was farcical.

Every club will have had minor covid breaches. Was only a few months ago Motherwell directors weren't paying any attention whatsoever to COVID rules in Coleraine. 

If anyone thinks Motherwell should be awarded 6 pts and 6 goals for this then they need to have a word with themselves. 

 

I tell you what I find laughable is Killie and St Mirren fans thinking it would be at all different if it was they that had two games canx at short notice and handed 6 points by the SPFL. I am sure 100% would be raging at this injustice and would be marching on Fir Park in solidarity with Motherwell. 

The facts are it has been handled poorly by the governing bodies. Hamilton and Motherwell have been messed about here also. The fact it took almost 3 months to resolve is actually laughable !

The majority of Motherwell fans probably felt the initial punishment was harsh the rest were ripping the pish. You are at it if you think Killie and St Mirren fans would have acted at all differently.....

 

 

[Hope Springs]

No point in bickering over decisions and the tortuous processes of arriving at them. We just need to do our talking on the pitch - where it counts - and win these re-scheduled matches. Convincingly.

[star sail]

10 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Find some of the comments on this thread laughable.

We were told by NHS Ayrshire and Arran that our full squad had to isolate, we had no choice whether to play the game or not. We literally had no players. 

The decision to make the full squad isolate was a health board decision, and we've seen this vary across the country. 

The decision was always going to be overturned as it was a laughable decision in the first place.

How many 3-0 defeats have been handed out in England for same reason this season? None.

I understand why you would be annoyed at losing out on an easy 6 pts but fuck me, the original penalty was farcical.

Every club will have had minor covid breaches. Was only a few months ago Motherwell directors weren't paying any attention whatsoever to COVID rules in Coleraine. 

If anyone thinks Motherwell should be awarded 6 pts and 6 goals for this then they need to have a word with themselves. 

 

As far as I am aware NHS Ayrshire and Arran did not ask the full squad to self isolate for no reason. They asked them to self isolate because players within the squad had tested positive and the wider squad had not followed the protocol put in place to allow Kilmarnock to control and manage the situation themselves. Other clubs in the Spfl (except St Mirren) have controlled outbreaks and have therefore been able to fulfil fixtures. 

The rule was that if you could not fulfil the fixture because protocol had been breached you lost the three points. I don't think there is anything laughable about applying the rules. 

What is laughable is that the SFA (as always) are making it up as they go along contradicting Scottish Government guidelines and completing misjudging the importance of sending out a strong message that professional football in this country takes its responsibility seriously in playing its (very) small part in getting us out of a National disaster. 

I don't think that is laughable at all. It's not really about the six points. 

[Yorkyred]

41 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I tell you what I find laughable is Killie and St Mirren fans thinking it would be at all different if it was they that had two games canx at short notice and handed 6 points by the SPFL. I am sure 100% would be raging at this injustice and would be marching on Fir Park in solidarity with Motherwell. 

The facts are it has been handled poorly by the governing bodies. Hamilton and Motherwell have been messed about here also. The fact it took almost 3 months to resolve is actually laughable !

The majority of Motherwell fans probably felt the initial punishment was harsh the rest were ripping the pish. You are at it if you think Killie and St Mirren fans would have acted at all differently.....

 

 

Supporters of clubs are always going to see it from their clubs perspective, so yes of course they would have been complaining exactly the same way. Were St Mirren at it ? Probably to a degree but it’s unprecedented times so it was always going to happen one way or another. The way it’s been handled is not a shock, I’d have been more shocked if they had handled it well. But end of the day we are better off just moving on, we won’t be winning any PR contest by complaining and all you will get is fans such as the one above that will come on here then copy and paste selected posts back to pie and Bovril pointing out how awful Motherwell fans are. It’s been a crap season for many reasons and we are where we are because we’ve not been good enough, best thing we can do is concentrate on taking 6 points from the two rearranged games.