Season 2020’21: Game 30: St Mirren (A)

[GazzyB]

46 minutes ago, ropy said:

It is not outwith the bounds of probability that we would have won both games (possibly not 3-0) these games were in the middle of our hot streak.  We have not been given extra points, we have been given points that we may have won although it wasn’t guaranteed.

Completely agree. We were on form and would have almost certainly beat St Mirren, and fancied our chances against Killie.

 

This is a huge boost to our European chances. Imperative we kick on starting Saturday.

[Kmcalpin]

Does anyone know the numbers of players at Kilmarnock and St Mirren who:

- had tested positive for coronavirus

- had to self isolate

- were injured

prior to these games being cancelled?

[0Neils40yarder]

St Mirren have fired an appeal into the spfl...3points back aff?

[Electric Blues]

18 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

St Mirren have fired an appeal into the spfl...3points back aff?

If the appeal fails they should dock St Mirren 3 points for their temerity, and unsuspend their fine for good measure.

[Welldaft Mk1]

51 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

St Mirren have fired an appeal into the spfl...3points back aff?

And Kilmarnock. 

Christ. We might have to start winning games. Whatever next ! 

Hopefully they fail or we should appeal the appeal......

[weeyin]

Have they hired Rudy Giuliani as their lawyer?

[yosemite sam]

Really can't see these being overturned. SPFL have made their decision, their not like Boris, turning all the time.

[mfc]

The league will become an even bigger laughing stock if they then start taking points back thats been awarded.i get that we're living in crazy times but theres rules and protocols to be followed and both clubs broke them and hoped they could get games cancelled and played when they had a fully fit squad,i hope there told in no uncertain terms to fuck right off with there appeals.

[well_said]

This is typical of the absolute shambles that is the spfl. The rules and regulations should have set out before a ball was kicked this season .The football authorities in this country are a laughing stock. 

[Spiderpig]

4 hours ago, well_said said:

This is typical of the absolute shambles that is the spfl. The rules and regulations should have set out before a ball was kicked this season .The football authorities in this country are a laughing stock. 

Nothing would surprise me regarding decisions taken by the shambles that is the SFA / SPFL, I fully expect the points to be taken back and the games rescheduled,  you honestly could not make up the shite they spout.

[Goggles & Flippers]

7 hours ago, well_said said:

This is typical of the absolute shambles that is the spfl. The rules and regulations should have set out before a ball was kicked this season .The football authorities in this country are a laughing stock. 

I was under the impression they were, what took the time was to establish if both clubs done enough and followed the guidelines which it was deemed they didn't. That's what extended the timescale from an early November one weeks later plus both clubs getting in expensive lawyers.

Can't help this is frivolous on their part, I'm sure the SPFL belt and braces this decision to avoid it ongoing so it seems purely for PR and to appease their fans rather than get an outcome. Would they have appealed if they were both due to play Newco?

[weeyin]

Most disciplinary systems allow an appeal. I expect the same outcome as Hearts relegation appeal, however, as the published decisions seemed to cover every point of contention pretty well.

 

[Kmcalpin]

I was fully expecting these appeals, as soon as the decisions were announced. There's been a bit of talk in the media about us, and Accies to a lesser extent,  benefitting from the decison and other clubs losing out. To some extent thats true but there's been no talk whatsoever of us having been disadvantaged. Disruption to match days and training schedules, additionals costs, and now continuing uncertainty.  etc.  If any club in the Premiership, outwith the gruesome twosome and Aberdeen, is going to get positive media publicity, its St Mirren. 

Anyway, I would have no gripe with the decision being reversed, IF the necessary information on player unavailability at Kilmarnock and St Mirren is available to the Appeal body. If thats the case then the game should be played with Saint's having to play with a grossly weakened side ie with the players they had available, more or less, on the day of the cancellation. Presumabty players who breached the guidelines could be suspended. They should not be allowed to play the game with full strength , or near to it, side. In addition they should pay ourselves and Accies a modest and appropriate sum in compensation.

[CoF]

19 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I was fully expecting these appeals, as soon as the decisions were announced. There's been a bit of talk in the media about us, and Accies to a lesser extent,  benefitting from the decison and other clubs losing out. To some extent thats true but there's been no talk whatsoever of us having been disadvantaged. Disruption to match days and training schedules, additionals costs, and now continuing uncertainty.  etc.  If any club in the Premiership, outwith the gruesome twosome and Aberdeen, is going to get positive media publicity, its St Mirren. 

Anyway, I would have no gripe with the decision being reversed, IF the necessary information on player unavailability at Kilmarnock and St Mirren is available to the Appeal body. If thats the case then the game should be played with Saint's having to play with a grossly weakened side ie with the players they had available, more or less, on the day of the cancellation. Presumabty players who breached the guidelines could be suspended. They should not be allowed to play the game with full strength , or near to it, side. In addition they should pay ourselves and Accies a modest and appropriate sum in compensation.

Your second paragraph is probably the only way to find a resolution to this that maintains sporting integrity across the league. It's sensible, and I assume would have been an option for the panel. 

However, the disciplinary panel have placed a lot of emphasis on fixture congestion, suggesting that fixture pileups are simply not an option. I don't believe for one minute these games couldn't be rescheduled - we're on round 17 at the exact same time as previous years (give or take a few days) so it seems there is a strong deterrent element in the decision to punish like this - they can't afford the inevitable chaos if teams were consistently slack. 

If that's the case, then I can't understand why they aren't investigating Dundee United and Celtic who have recently had team photos taken with absolutely no social distancing. Dundee United now have 9 players and a manager isolating.  If they don't investigate then it's sending the message to all clubs that they won't investigate and punish for breaking the rules, they'll only investigate and punish if there are consequences of breaking the rules. When the consequences seem to be based on sheer luck and squad size then I don't think that's good enough. Kilmarnock and St Mirren deserve to be punished but they're absolutely right to feel unfairly treated. 

[weeyin]

Kille and St Mirren couldn't fulfill their scheduled fixtures down to their severe breach of the Covid protocols. That was what was investigated and punished.

Utd and Celtic are fulfilling their fixtures (although I thought Utd were being investigated).

Calling off games is the key difference.

Not taking action is unfair punishment on ourselves and Accies as we'd have to fit the games into the tight schedule and play them when they are back to full strength. Not only is that rewarding them for breaching the protocols, it would encourage other teams to call of games when it suited them, knowing there would be no consequence.

This is a unique season where unique rules need to be applied. They need to suck it up and move on - and be grateful they didn't have to pay the fine.

 

[steelboy]

The SPFL said clubs will only get a sporting penalty for breaches which effect games. 

 

[wellwell91]

18 hours ago, CoF said:

Your second paragraph is probably the only way to find a resolution to this that maintains sporting integrity across the league. It's sensible, and I assume would have been an option for the panel. 

However, the disciplinary panel have placed a lot of emphasis on fixture congestion, suggesting that fixture pileups are simply not an option. I don't believe for one minute these games couldn't be rescheduled - we're on round 17 at the exact same time as previous years (give or take a few days) so it seems there is a strong deterrent element in the decision to punish like this - they can't afford the inevitable chaos if teams were consistently slack. 

If that's the case, then I can't understand why they aren't investigating Dundee United and Celtic who have recently had team photos taken with absolutely no social distancing. Dundee United now have 9 players and a manager isolating.  If they don't investigate then it's sending the message to all clubs that they won't investigate and punish for breaking the rules, they'll only investigate and punish if there are consequences of breaking the rules. When the consequences seem to be based on sheer luck and squad size then I don't think that's good enough. Kilmarnock and St Mirren deserve to be punished but they're absolutely right to feel unfairly treated. 

Dundee Utd and Celtic did not ask for games to be postponed 

Length of time it took before decision was announced leads me to believe that the panel came to the conclusion that both St Mirren and Kilmarnock were at the madam 

[ropy]

2 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Dundee Utd and Celtic did not ask for games to be postponed 

Length of time it took before decision was announced leads me to believe that the panel came to the conclusion that both St Mirren and Kilmarnock were at the madam 

You and Tam Cowan are the only people I have seen using the madam phrase

[CoF]

9 hours ago, weeyin said:

Calling off games is the key difference.

 

5 hours ago, steelboy said:

The SPFL said clubs will only get a sporting penalty for breaches which effect games. 

 

4 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Dundee Utd and Celtic did not ask for games to be postponed 

 

Aye, see I understand that.

I think it's illogical though. It's akin to making it legal to drive at any speed and only charging folk who crash.  

As it stands, the SPFL are saying it's okay to break the rules. Just make sure 1 - your luck doesn't run out, 2 - you've got a big enough squad, 3 - the Scottish government doesn't cancel the game on a PR whim. 

Despite being praised for their COVID controls in the SPFL investigation, Celtic and Aberdeen have huge suspended fines yet Dundee United  aren't even being investigated despite 8 players and a manger testing positive and having been slated by Scotland's national clinical director for breaches of protocol.

My point is that following a breach or protocol, the decision whether or not to investigate and discipline comes down to sheer luck. An organisation properly thinking about prevention would do something about those near misses too.

 

[couttsy]

Not sure if this is any indication of what’s likely to happen in Scotland, however I see Napoli have managed to win their appeal against a 3-0 defeat awarded to Juventus against them for a breach of Covid rules..

The way we’re playing that would be squeaky bum time for us if they’re overturn and we need to play them! 

 

[Burn_Broomfield]

15 minutes ago, couttsy said:

Not sure if this is any indication of what’s likely to happen in Scotland, however I see Napoli have managed to win their appeal against a 3-0 defeat awarded to Juventus against them for a breach of Covid rules..

The way we’re playing that would be squeaky bum time for us if they’re overturn and we need to play them! 

 

The Napoli v Juve abandonment was an entirely different set of circumstances though. 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55433000

Scottish Premiership: 3-0 wins 'suspended' after St Mirren & Kilmarnock appeals

Last updated on23 minutes ago23 minutes ago.From the sectionScottish Premiership

Kilmarnock and St Mirren have appealed against the SPFL decision

The 3-0 Scottish Premiership victories awarded after Covid regulation breaches by St Mirren and Kilmarnock have been "suspended pending appeals".

Motherwell were given wins over both, and Hamilton Academical were handed the points for a game against St Mirren - all of which were postponed in October.

But after St Mirren and Kilmarnock protested, the punishments are on hold.

It means Motherwell slip to 10th in the Scottish Premiership and Hamilton are now just a point off the bottom.

• Kilmarnock & St Mirren lodge appeals
• Premiership duo forfeit fixtures

St Mirren and Kilmarnock admitted infringing social distancing rules on buses and at meals, and players from St Mirren also shared cars to and from training.

Both clubs admitted the violations and were fined £40,000, suspended until 30 June.

The appeal against the decision taken by a sub-committee of the SPFL will be heard by the Scottish FA on 14 January.

The SPFL say that they "will update the Premiership table pending the outcome of the appeals process".

Motherwell slip from sixth to 10th, and Hamilton are now just a point off the bottom

[Kmac]

Less than 4 points from the next 2 and we are completely up shits creek. 

[wellwell91]

We should never have been awarded the 3 points in those games … … they should be played

Having said that St Mirren should be docked 6 points and Killie 3 points for not fulfilling those fixtures … … anything else makes it a farce 

 

[milo]

They should’t have awarded the points until the appeals had been heard. It’s a shambles that isn’t of our doing, but the league table certainly now reflects the shiteness of our play. It’ll be even worse if we lose the rearranged games.