Season 2020’21: Game 30: St Mirren (A)

[Kmcalpin]

16 minutes ago, sinjy said:

St Mirren knew they had a problem mid week. At that point they should have included their youth players in their testing regime and they would have been able to field a side. Also why is it essential that a player must have a negative test to play in the premier but down the leagues part time players with other jobs in the community,  and therefore at greater risk of getting ill and spreading the virus, do not need to be tested.

Good points. Its the lateness and suddeness of the call off.  I'd like to know if Fir Park was informed well in advance. As far as Joe Public is concerned there was no hint of this at all until a couple of hours before kick off. 

[ropy]

If they are isolating, their game next week will be off too.

[Ya Bezzer!]

2 hours ago, steelboy said:

How many?

 

Quick Google search brought these up so at least 6.

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/league-one-game-postponed-after-positive-covid-19-test-2991848

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/grimsby-town-coronavirus-league-two-19015559

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/tottenham-hotspur/story/4187941/carabao-cup-tottenham-clash-with-leyton-orient-postponed-due-to-positive-covid-19-tests

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54525749

[underboyleheating]

I was in St.Mirren’s ground recently as part of my job, and like any professional football club they appear to have a good handle on the Covid and temperature testing situation. It’s not ideal, however, you can’t blame them for something that could happen to any club. 

[texanwellfan]

Looks like it is even more important to stay out of the bottom 2 all of the time in case the season gets called again and they go with positions!!  Looking at the teams in the league though we should realistically be targeting a top 6 finish. 

[mfc88]

24 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

they dont need to have covid if one has it and associated with 20 others those 20 need to self isolate.

If one person is coming into close enough contact with 20 odd on a daily basis something is wrong.

Clubs should be doing everything to mitigate the spread - avoiding indoor contact, distancing/ limiting numbers in the gym, training in smaller groups, blah blah blah. We don't know the full details of the situation, but 3 cases equalling a call off smells like shite to me tbh. It took 6 positive cases at killie to force the game off.

[Brazilian]

32 minutes ago, steelboy said:

The point is that one positive test shouldn't take out five players. If they had been properly distancing this wouldn't have happened. There has been no collateral damage when players have tested positive down south. 

 

25 minutes ago, mfc88 said:

Exactly.

If 3 positive cases is enough to require umpteen players go into isolation then the protocols in place at st mirren to prevent the spread of the virus and protect their staff are not sufficient, and they should be held accountable for that.

No point in discussing with lunatics, if you don’t believe ‘others’ have to isolate after a positive test result , you’re clearly a pair of moon howlers 

The players at any club aren’t operating as individuals, they have to interact as groups , the protocols can reduce risk of transmission, but even in highly controlled environments there is still transmission.

and at very least the group they were operating in has to isolate  

[Spiderpig]

13 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

do you understand the covid rules. If one person is positive the everyone they've associated with need to self isolate .. i.e. cannae play a game of football. At a football club most will have come into contact with the person in the preceding 72 hours.

Do you understand the rules, if proper social distancing and all other procedures are being followed, 1 player testing positive should not take out the the entire squad, ie no close contact

So unless the players are cuddling each other for at least 5 mins and not practicing safe distancing and going maskless, then they should be OK.

St Mirren are at it big time, as were Kilmarnock. 

 

[mfc88]

8 minutes ago, Brazilian said:

 

No point in discussing with lunatics, if you don’t believe ‘others’ have to isolate after a positive test result , you’re clearly a pair of moon howlers 

The players at any club aren’t operating as individuals, they have to interact as groups , the protocols can reduce risk of transmission, but even in highly controlled environments there is still transmission.

and at very least the group they were operating in has to isolate  

Good one. What's a discussion forum for like? If you actually read any of my posts you'd see I'm not saying "no one need to isolate".

Anyway, its an opinion. You don't need to get personal.

[Lobey_Dosser]

11 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Do you understand the rules, if proper social distancing and all other procedures are being followed, 1 player testing positive should not take out the the entire squad, ie no close contact

So unless the players are cuddling each other for at least 5 mins and not practicing safe distancing and going maskless, then they should be OK.

St Mirren are at it big time, as were Kilmarnock. 

 

I’m not sure what the criteria is but I’d think a small group sitting for their lunch for example, albeit socially distanced, would be enough to count as close contact. Tierney and Christie had to self isolate for being in the same room as Armstrong despite keeping their distance. 

Then there is training itself, plenty close contact there but that doesn’t seem to count. 

[steelboy]

42 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

do you understand the covid rules. If one person is positive the everyone they've associated with need to self isolate .. i.e. cannae play a game of football. At a football club most will have come into contact with the person in the preceding 72 hours.

You need to have been within 2m for 15 minutes to be considered a close contact so they should (very fucking easily) be avoiding doing that. 

[Spiderpig]

9 minutes ago, Lobey_Dosser said:

I’m not sure what the criteria is but I’d think a small group sitting for their lunch for example, albeit socially distanced, would be enough to count as close contact. Tierney and Christie had to self isolate for being in the same room as Armstrong despite keeping their distance. 

Then there is training itself, plenty close contact there but that doesn’t seem to count. 

I know mate its a nightmare, but as of yesterday there was no issue at St Mirren,  so  even if 1 player, phones in sick this morning,  or even worse turns up with symptoms, unless the whole squad stay with him, it should  just be 1 player, maybe 2 if he gave somebody a lift.

But in either scenario protocols were not followed so sanctions are required.

 

[Brazilian]

18 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

I know mate its a nightmare, but as of yesterday there was no issue at St Mirren,  so  even if 1 player, phones in sick this morning,  or even worse turns up with symptoms, unless the whole squad stay with him, it should  just be 1 player, maybe 2 if he gave somebody a lift.

But in either scenario protocols were not followed so sanctions are required.

 

This is just pure utter pish

you are torturing yourself (and us) with a complete lack of appreciation or deliberate denial of what contact is and the risk of transmission 

there is no way a positive case in a first team at a pro football club means only one player misses that days work, or the next day, , all who were in contact with them in the work place, will miss work until their retesting clears them for work.

anything less is putting all , the other teams players at risk as well

 

 

 

 

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, underboyleheating said:

I was in St.Mirren’s ground recently as part of my job, and like any professional football club they appear to have a good handle on the Covid and temperature testing situation. It’s not ideal, however, you can’t blame them for something that could happen to any club. 

We simply don’t know what took place and that’s for the investigation to determine. We can blame them IF they did not adhere to the guidelines. I’m not saying they did anything wrong but equally I ‘m not in a position to say they’re blameless. IF, and it’s a big if, they are up to something untoward I doubt very much they would make it obvious. 

[steelboy]

11 minutes ago, Brazilian said:

This is just pure utter pish

you are torturing yourself (and us) with a complete lack of appreciation or deliberate denial of what contact is and the risk of transmission 

there is no way a positive case in a first team at a pro football club means only one player misses that days work, or the next day, , all who were in contact with them in the work place, will miss work until their retesting clears them for work.

anything less is putting all , the other teams players at risk as well

 

 

 

 

They should be distancing. There is no reason for any of them to be close enough for long enough to be considered a contact. 

They - and Kilmarnock - obviously haven't adhered to the protocols. The club need to chase this up. 

 

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, Brazilian said:

 

 

and at very least the group they were operating in has to isolate  

I agree with this . 100%

But how big is the group in St Mirren's case ? I thought protocols were in place to minimise the impact of a positive result. In St Mirren's previous alerts it was restricted to a group of three  goalkeepers (the first time), and two players plus one close contact this midweek? Suggests Groups of three.  So games were possible and today's game was originally allowed to take place. . 

If todays one positive finding resulted in enough players being in the "close contact" category to warrant a call off, he must have been in close contact with at least 8 others., adding to the 3 already ruled out and allowing for a 25 man squad. So I ask, is there a maximum size of group allowed under Spfl protocols and did St Mirren exceed that limit? Is that the same issue that is being investigated at Kilmarnock? If Clubs have not followed protocol then they should be penalised. It's ironic that the only two clubs punished so far were when players went rogue well away from their Club, and the Clubs involved did nothing wrong.

One thing is certain though. When told that an entire squad might have been exposed, and with no time to clear them before the scheduled kick off time, no way can the SPFL allow a match to go ahead.

Whatever the true situation hopefully the CoVid positive players make a full recovery.

 

[Kmcalpin]

Just now, dennyc said:

It's ironic that the only two clubs punished so far were when players went rogue well away from their Club, and the Clubs involved did nothing wrong.

Absolutely. Yet another inconsistency in this horrible situation.

[CoF]

Unless things get genuinely out of hand, then I can't see any reason why the league shouldn't be able to complete all the fixtures even with more call-offs. It surely just takes a pragmatic approach, and that includes from UEFA. Drop the winter break. Drop the protected European dates and play games on a Thursday afternoon if that's what it takes to get games on. With no fans, the Police will have almost no role in the majority of fixtures so there's another restriction gone. Teams regularly compete in 4 / 5 competitions at once and, as Tottenham have just done - play 4 games in 8 days. I know squad rotation is a huge thing there, however every professional club has 40+ players on their books. 

It's all far from ideal, but unless things go completely mental then I can't see why it's a concern. 

[steelboy]

When Mane tested positive for Liverpool before their match with Arsenal no one else had to isolate.

The protocols are designed to avoid players being close contacts with each other. People have tested positive in my work but no one has been a close contact as we have social distancing. 

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, Brazilian said:

This is just pure utter pish

you are torturing yourself (and us) with a complete lack of appreciation or deliberate denial of what contact is and the risk of transmission 

there is no way a positive case in a first team at a pro football club means only one player misses that days work, or the next day, , all who were in contact with them in the work place, will miss work until their retesting clears them for work.

anything less is putting all , the other teams players at risk as well

 

 

 

 

That may well be the case, and I will concede that point, but St mirren have a reported squad size this season of 23, so do you really believe  that all 23 players or at least 10 of them has been in close contact with the one positive player yesterday for more than 15 mins, meaning they were unable to field a team , 24 hrs later, 

Sadio Mane tested positive for Liverpool, but the rest of the 1st team still played,, the set up and administration in Scotland is a shambles, and clubs are taking advantage, it needs sorted.

[Stu92]

I’m hesitant to start the finger pointing as I’m sure this won’t be the last outbreak at a club, and it could very well be us next. If so, I’d like to think we weren’t trying to pull the wool and so unless these league inquiries show that’s what St Mirren and Killie have been doing I’ll reserve judgement. 
 

On a separate note, do one of the St Mirren players not live with one of the Hamilton players? 

[CoF]

16 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Do you understand the rules, if proper social distancing and all other procedures are being followed, 1 player testing positive should not take out the the entire squad, ie no close contact

So unless the players are cuddling each other for at least 5 mins and not practicing safe distancing and going maskless, then they should be OK.

St Mirren are at it big time, as were Kilmarnock. 

 

 

16 hours ago, steelboy said:

You need to have been within 2m for 15 minutes to be considered a close contact so they should (very fucking easily) be avoiding doing that. 

I hate to let facts get in the way of outrage, but you are both wrong. 

NHS GGC (which covers Paisley), in line with UK Government also considers a close contact someone you've been within one metre of for one minute, having a face-to-face conversation, skin-to-skin contact. 

You are thinking of the track and trace apps, which use a 2 metre / 15 minute algorithm for the initial contact tracing via bluetooth. The contact tracers then get more details directly from the person who has tested positive and apply the full range of "close contact" rules. 

 

[Kmcalpin]

8 minutes ago, CoF said:

NHS GGC (which covers Paisley), in line with UK Government also considers a close contact someone you've been within one metre of for one minute, having a face-to-face conversation, skin-to-skin contact. 

You are thinking of the track and trace apps, which use a 2 metre / 15 minute algorithm for the initial contact tracing via bluetooth. The contact tracers then get more details directly from the person who has tested positive and apply the full range of "close contact" rules.

I'm not questioning the accuracy of your reply, as I'm pretty confused about the Covid 19 guidelines, which are complex enough without the media errors we've heard and seen in the past week.  Its interesting though that NHS GGC is following the UK Government's definition and not the Scottish Government's definition which is "For Covid 19, this includes everyone who has been less than 2 metres away  from a confirmed case for 15 minutes or more." (No mention of the app). 

[mfc88]

What constitutes close contact is probably subjective and a bit of a minefield. It is just a bit suspect that the two positive cases midweek only resulted in one additional precautionary isolation, yet the third guy that tested positive resulted in their remaining squad size reducing to 12. So taking out 10+ players or so? Doesn't sit right. There may well be an explanation but I doubt we'll get it either way.

[Spiderpig]

28 minutes ago, CoF said:

 

 

NHS GGC (which covers Paisley), in line with UK Government also considers a close contact someone you've been within one metre of for one minute, having a face-to-face conversation, skin-to-skin contact. 

 

 

Fair do,s mate I stand corrected if thats the official position so if clubs and players are following the correct procedures re masks and social distancing etc then  multiple outbreaks should not happen, and take out the whole squad but that's for the SPFL to determine.