Season 2020’21: Game 30: St Mirren (A)

[Kmcalpin]

11 minutes ago, mfc88 said:

What constitutes close contact is probably subjective and a bit of a minefield. It is just a bit suspect that the two positive cases midweek only resulted in one additional precautionary isolation, yet the third guy that tested positive resulted in their remaining squad size reducing to 12. So taking out 10+ players or so? Doesn't sit right. There may well be an explanation but I doubt we'll get it either way.

Self isolation maybe? Apart from that I believe they had one or two players who had non Covid related injuries. In ordinary times they may just have been fit enough to play but in these strange times...............

[wellwell91]

The SPFL/SFA need to get a handle on this if clubs can just say half their squad have to self isolate it leaves the whole process open to abuse

If individual players are being told to isolate by test and trace the evidence needs to be provided as to why that is happen to the majority of the squad as protocols were put in place to stop this from happening. If clubs are not following the protocols there should be punishments. 
I do not want the 3 points and it’s right that the game should be played whenever possible, but this is going to/is become a farce unless the teams are deducted points for these breaches.

[Welldaft Mk1]

2 hours ago, mfc88 said:

What constitutes close contact is probably subjective and a bit of a minefield. It is just a bit suspect that the two positive cases midweek only resulted in one additional precautionary isolation, yet the third guy that tested positive resulted in their remaining squad size reducing to 12. So taking out 10+ players or so? Doesn't sit right. There may well be an explanation but I doubt we'll get it either way.

Very much this. Only one additional player tested positive and suddenly they are unable to field a team. How do you have two testing positive with only one additional player isolating and then one additional positive test and Armageddon ensues. It does not make sense.  I have to believe that St Mirren are not at it but u could see how if suddenly they are missing half their 1st team s it would be best for them for the game not to go ahead. 

Of course the SPFL investigation will get to the bottom of it and we will learn of their decision in 2023. 

[ropy]

If they are isolating, their game next week will be off too.

[ropy]

I would be interested to know who determined the final clutch of players that were deemed contacts, was this formal Trace & Protect or was it the opinion of St Mirren, it all happened a bit quick.

[Yorkyred]

20 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

a very good possibility and if you are bottom with 10 games in hand you go down. Precedent set.

We’ve got staff positive and others isolating in our department that we never had earlier this year, from what we’re seeing we’re going to see more games called off regardless until they call time on the season. Too slow in dealing with the changes that were  needed and some very poor decision making across the UK is coming back to bite us.

[wellwell91]

Hope I’m wrong here but this reminds me of the time when Shotts asked the league to get a game called off and were refused … … they then went and got 8 or 10 sick notes from a doctor.

On investigation these notes were proved to be invalid … … the doctor was several reprimanded by the BMA and Shotts were kicked out of the league for a year 

Simple question needs answered who told the players to self isolate NHS test and trace officials or the club ???  Shouldn’t be hard to find out 

[grizzlyg]

Just stuck radio Scotland on and someone from club talking about yesterday but I dont recognise the voice...burrows?

[ropy]

3 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Just stuck radio Scotland on and someone from club talking about yesterday but I dont recognise the voice...burrows?

Ross

[grizzlyg]

3 minutes ago, ropy said:

Ross

Ahhhh of course,   cheers ropy

[Kmcalpin]

What was he saying? From the wording of our announcement, it’s not clear when we were informed of the cancellation or indeed who by. I’d hope St Mirren kept us informed before the SPFL informed us of their acceptance of their request for a postponement. 

[grizzlyg]

Only caught tail end but Ross didnt sound impressed,  players had lunch and not much indication game was off but I did miss most of interview

[steelboy]

3 hours ago, mfc88 said:

What constitutes close contact is probably subjective and a bit of a minefield. It is just a bit suspect that the two positive cases midweek only resulted in one additional precautionary isolation, yet the third guy that tested positive resulted in their remaining squad size reducing to 12. So taking out 10+ players or so? Doesn't sit right. There may well be an explanation but I doubt we'll get it either way.

The SPFL should be asking for details of why each individual player has to isolate. 

They play Accies next Saturday so it'll be interesting to see how many players they have available.

[Kmcalpin]

26 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Only caught tail end but Ross didnt sound impressed,  players had lunch and not much indication game was off but I did miss most of interview

This compounds my suspicion that St Mirren was having a conversation with the SPFL without our knowledge. Hope I’m wrong.

[steelboy]

I've also find it very hard to believe that the entire Kilmarnock squad and backroom staff self isolated for two weeks from the day of our postponed fixture, left the house on Friday for the first time in 14 days then won 3-1 away at Livi 24 hours later. 

 

[Brazilian]

58 minutes ago, ropy said:

If they are isolating, their game next week will be off too.

not if , follow up testing (and the shortened isolation periods allowed by the elite sports protocols due to test frequency ) declares enough players available.
 

 

It’s pretty concerning  at the significant lack of understanding displayed by so many individuals in this and on other some social media threads  

im not sure if it’s just because of the football competition that folk are losing general common sense or if as some have mentioned it’s just confusing and perhaps people are clutching at anything to justify behaviours (of others and themselves)

it’s like the new football handball  rules , they are ridiculous because associations are trying to put absolute definitions to fluid events.

close contact does have some definitions documented out there that refer to distance and time, but those are nearly always related to tracing more general contacts in public, 

if you just spend a moment thinking about it (and read the documented most likely forms of transmission) 

momentary face to face conversations are one of the highest risks (hence shields and masks for public interactions at points like  tills) then touch contact and it goes on from there , the notion that the virus waits 15 minutes to transfer is not even notionally realistic, but in terms of tracing the tracers will question about direct close contacts and then for the less traceable interactions they have to call on the definitions that some above have quoted.

Footballers by the very nature of the job , are at high risk if a team mate or opposition player or even the official have the virus 

Too many are absolutely convinced the opposition are ‘at it’  and some are then creating scenarios to try and justify it

I've no idea if St.Mirren or Killie were at it, I cannot see the real benefit to exaggerating a very serious scenario that could shut their business down.  If they have breached any rules I’d hope they are held to account 

but if st Mirren had a player reporting covid-19 positive on Friday or Saturday, I’m glad they isolated anyone that had been in close contact, to prevent spread to our club , and hope those infected recover, and equally there isn’t any other cases 
 

 

 

 

[steelboy]

It was 14 days for Ryan Christie and it will be 14 days for every player St Mirren claim had to self isolate. 

[wellwell91]

6 minutes ago, steelboy said:

It was 14 days for Ryan Christie and it will be 14 days for every player St Mirren claim had to self isolate. 

Correct why was Christie not allowed to play for Celtic yesterday ??

The more I read and hear about this situation the more I think St Mirren are at the madam 

[steelboy]

There's a post on Pie and Bovril saying they have 3 positive and 5 self isolating.

 

[Brazilian]

17 minutes ago, steelboy said:

It was 14 days for Ryan Christie and it will be 14 days for every player St Mirren claim had to self isolate. 

I read it that Christie and Tierney were caught under the 14 day requirement, as they weren’t exposed within their own clubs  controlled

if every player now requires 14 days , even less reason to be ‘at it’ 

[Big Stall]

This whole thing is a bit of a worry.

The precedent was set last season with Thistle getting relegated with a game in hand. Now, the season will not get called next week but as we can see from our last two matches, it is very easy to fall behind at no fault of ourselves. This type of situation could be a major problem for us, and other teams as we get further into the season/pandemic!

 

* Just to add to that, while the powers that be probably won't give a flying fuck about the team relegated, you can bet it would be a nightmare scenario for them to award a title to one of the arse cheeks if the other still had a game or games in hand!

[steelboy]

26 minutes ago, Brazilian said:

I read it that Christie and Tierney were caught under the 14 day requirement, as they weren’t exposed within their own clubs  controlled

if every player now requires 14 days , even less reason to be ‘at it’ 

They apparently only have five self isolating and it might be five squad players for all we know. 

Christie had 14 days because that is the restriction in Scotland. The Kilmarnock players supposedly had 14 days as well but Dyer said they had a couple of training sessions which makes no sense.

As I said before the SPFL chickened out of setting a hard precedent with Killie and now everyone will push it as far as they can. 

[numpty]

24 minutes ago, Big Stall said:

The precedent was set last season with Thistle getting relegated with a game in hand. Now, the season will not get called next week but as we can see from our last two matches, it is very easy to fall behind at no fault of ourselves

We wouldn't fall behind so much (or possibly at all) on average points per game, though, which is the basis on which Thistle were relegated, and why that system was chosen as the best of a bad bunch in the first place. There will never be a totally fair way to curtail or even suspend a season, but the more games everyone manages to play, the more reasonable the average points system becomes, as each game in hand makes less difference to your average.

[Welldaft Mk1]

1 hour ago, Brazilian said:

not if , follow up testing (and the shortened isolation periods allowed by the elite sports protocols due to test frequency ) declares enough players available.
 

 

It’s pretty concerning  at the significant lack of understanding displayed by so many individuals in this and on other some social media threads  

im not sure if it’s just because of the football competition that folk are losing general common sense or if as some have mentioned it’s just confusing and perhaps people are clutching at anything to justify behaviours (of others and themselves)

it’s like the new football handball  rules , they are ridiculous because associations are trying to put absolute definitions to fluid events.

close contact does have some definitions documented out there that refer to distance and time, but those are nearly always related to tracing more general contacts in public, 

if you just spend a moment thinking about it (and read the documented most likely forms of transmission) 

momentary face to face conversations are one of the highest risks (hence shields and masks for public interactions at points like  tills) then touch contact and it goes on from there , the notion that the virus waits 15 minutes to transfer is not even notionally realistic, but in terms of tracing the tracers will question about direct close contacts and then for the less traceable interactions they have to call on the definitions that some above have quoted.

Footballers by the very nature of the job , are at high risk if a team mate or opposition player or even the official have the virus 

Too many are absolutely convinced the opposition are ‘at it’  and some are then creating scenarios to try and justify it

I've no idea if St.Mirren or Killie were at it, I cannot see the real benefit to exaggerating a very serious scenario that could shut their business down.  If they have breached any rules I’d hope they are held to account 

but if st Mirren had a player reporting covid-19 positive on Friday or Saturday, I’m glad they isolated anyone that had been in close contact, to prevent spread to our club , and hope those infected recover, and equally there isn’t any other cases 
 

 

 

 

Your responses tend to be a tad condescending. 

No one is purporting to be an expert and a lot of posts are borne out of frustration that the game was cancelled at the last minute. 

What I am querying and many others is how is it possible for 2 1st team players to test positive and ONLY one player requires to isolate. Then you have another positive test and as many as 4 or 5 suddenly need to isolate. Are these 1st two players introverts that keep to themselves and only mixed with one player. 

I don’t believe for a minute St Mirren are at it as it could bite them big time. But how difficult is it to say to test and trace that 4 or 5 players were in close proximity to the 3rd player who tested positive when there was probably little difference to the initial 2 players. 

If you were a conspiracy theorist you could say when the 1st two players tested positive they wanted to keep as many other players for our game. Then the minute another player tested positive and quite probably another key player - lets get this game off. The problem is that there will be no way for the SPFL to prove it even if they did bend the rules. 
 

 

[ropy]

1 hour ago, Big Stall said:

This whole thing is a bit of a worry.

The precedent was set last season with Thistle getting relegated with a game in hand. Now, the season will not get called next week but as we can see from our last two matches, it is very easy to fall behind at no fault of ourselves. This type of situation could be a major problem for us, and other teams as we get further into the season/pandemic!

 

* Just to add to that, while the powers that be probably won't give a flying fuck about the team relegated, you can bet it would be a nightmare scenario for them to award a title to one of the arse cheeks if the other still had a game or games in hand!

Don’t want to dwell on it but Thistle hadn’t won a league match in 2020, still haven’t, the game in hand was worthless.  PPG was the best way of evaluating the season.