Season 2020’21: Game 20: Hamilton (A)

[Welldaft Mk1]

You wonder where it all went so wrong. 
I know 2020 has been awful but at the start of the season most felt top 6 was a stick on. We had European football to look forward too. 
Up until the last International break we were OK. We got as far as we expected in Europe if not further thanks to a favourable draw. We had just beaten Livi and Ross County comfortably. 

Were all the players thinking that SOD and Gallacher would pull us though given they were a major part of a Scotland team That qualified for a finals. 

Either way something is rotten in the state of Denmark. To go from being OK to absolute dugmeat. Do the players not have meetings to say - we are Sh1te we had better not be sh1te any more. Lets put more effort in and concentrate for more than 20 seconds. 

It is an absolute mess but we still have some decent pedigree in the squad. That may change if we lose SOD, Gallacher and Campbell in the transfer window. Less likely now as anyone watching us would not want to touch any of our players. Not a one ! 

[texanwellfan]

49 minutes ago, Shaka said:

Just watched the highlights. That fucking clown in goal should never play for us again. The first 2 goals were some of the worst "goalkeeping" Ive ever seen

Jake Carroll had a shocker too. Wee Allan just looks haunted. And for his detractors, (and I know it was highlights) Polworth was our best player by a mile! 

Don’t believe the highlights. 

[wellsince75]

8 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

Don’t believe the highlights. 

agree - Polworths distribution is awful at the moment.

Carrol started poorly but improved as the game went on.
Thought Carrol/ODonnell both among our better players yesterday together with Watt. 

[brainier]

58 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

agree - Polworths distribution is awful at the moment.

Carrol started poorly but improved as the game went on.
Thought Carrol/ODonnell both among our better players yesterday together with Watt. 

I was disappointed with O'Donnell yesterday by his standards. He provided a great outlet to receive the ball on the right but his crossing was appalling, particularly in the second half when he couldn't seem to get the ball past the first man. 

As for Polworth, if we are relying on him to provide our inspiration then we are doomed. 

[wellsince75]

I've got some level of optimism that wingbacks will work for us if we beef up the midfield .

thought Maguire made a difference when he came on. Lots of games are lost through midfield as we rely on O'Hara and Campbell.

Id like to see us moving to 4 at the back with Carrol and Odonnell as wingbacks. 

Have Maguire/Campbell/OHara/Polworth in midfield .    Once Donnelly is fit he can slot in.

 

[gaz7]

As always on a terrible run we are making out that all our players are crap when that's not the case.

If we are being honest then yesterday if the keepers were swapped then we would have won the game definitely.  I dont like to slag or talk down our  players for nothing but I for the life of me been watching Well for 35 years cannot remember a worse one than Chapman. He is just big and that's it and even at that cant dominate his box.  

A good post from someone yesterday saying how our model of recruiting lower league english players to move on is not working as their is no stability at club due to this which I agree with. Our model should always in an ideal world be roughly 3or 4 from youth 3 or 4 Motherwewell stalwarts and rest others from where  we need to be signing the best of other scottish teams I.e nisbet shankland magennis etc.  I know some of above might have been out our range but we never seem to be interested in any young Scottish talent which is disappointing. 

Like a lot of others have said all the money we have made recently has not been reinvested in team to try and get good enough players that have any future transfer value or have improved the team immediately.

 

[Onthefringes]

Have you proof we haven’t been interested?

Realising value in the Scottish market has proved more difficult. 

[gaz7]

7 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Have you proof we haven’t been interested?

Realising value in the Scottish market has proved more difficult. 

No no proof as such other than anything we can all read.  That's where we used to buy and those players were successful all the way back to Lambert from st Mirren . Even polworth who yes is poor just now but he was Inverness best player and this is who I'm  suggesting 

[smiddy]

59 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

No no proof as such other than anything we can all read.  That's where we used to buy and those players were successful all the way back to Lambert from st Mirren . Even polworth who yes is poor just now but he was Inverness best player and this is who I'm  suggesting 

its been suggested elsewhere on here that polworth  is doing a vigurs and wants back up the road  ????

[wellsince75]

bringing through our own youngsters should be our go to position and we started that a few years back.  What a great advert for youngsters to join us when they see the likes of Turnbull, Campbell, Hastie mk 1, Cadden ,Scott all come through.

We've lost the momentum on the youngsters but it should always be at the heart of what we do.  Shored up with some decent pro's (either perm or loans) from wherever we can find them (which could include European players not just UK 

[supermarv]

5 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

bringing through our own youngsters should be our go to position and we started that a few years back.  What a great advert for youngsters to join us when they see the likes of Turnbull, Campbell, Hastie mk 1, Cadden ,Scott all come through.

We've lost the momentum on the youngsters but it should always be at the heart of what we do.  Shored up with some decent pro's (either perm or loans) from wherever we can find them (which could include European players not just UK 

None coming through at the moment with that WOW factor to come in and play consistently, look at they players you named above they had something and added it to the team, what do the current crop have? Not much from what I’ve seen over the last couple years of their progress.

[Yorkyred]

6 minutes ago, supermarv said:

None coming through at the moment with that WOW factor to come in and play consistently, look at they players you named above they had something and added it to the team, what do the current crop have? Not much from what I’ve seen over the last couple years of their progress.

I would have thought that just the nature of football, a good crop come through at the same time then you often have a gap before it happens again. I take it the investment in youth has continued and not been cutback.

[Goggles & Flippers]

3 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Have you proof we haven’t been interested?

Realising value in the Scottish market has proved more difficult. 

Prime example being Ben Heneghan, was OK, wasn't amazing but solid 6's with the odd 7. Goes to Sheffield Utd for 400k. I doubt we'd be able to realise that with Shuggie McDonald who we signed from Burntisland Fishmongers FC.

[Onthefringes]

1 hour ago, supermarv said:

None coming through at the moment with that WOW factor to come in and play consistently, look at they players you named above they had something and added it to the team, what do the current crop have? Not much from what I’ve seen over the last couple years of their progress.

Bullshit. What have you seen of their progress? I’d wager not a lot.

WOW factor to come in and play consistently? Only one can really be said of that was Turnbull and he is genuinely a once in a generation type. He’s gone, we’ll benefit from monies generated. Allan Campbell didn’t have a WOW factor, but, those who did could see he’d progress - it’s now time to think of life after Campbell. Incredibly naive to think he’d extend a contract beyond his 22 years.

Each has come in when given their chance and offered something different. To further develop a sales pitch for them, those behind haven’t been offered same opportunity- time is on their side though.

[Great Balls of Shire]

5 hours ago, brainier said:

I was disappointed with O'Donnell yesterday by his standards. He provided a great outlet to receive the ball on the right but his crossing was appalling, particularly in the second half when he couldn't seem to get the ball past the first man. 

As for Polworth, if we are relying on him to provide our inspiration then we are doomed. 

As far as footballers go, Polworth and Watt are two of the better ones . It’s always frustrating when it looks like a guy ( polworth) isn’t giving it his all, some people just come across that way..think Cooper and Russell, who were admittedly better players, although I do rate  Him. 

i don’t  think we can persist with the keeper, he looked nervous apart from anything else. Mugabe and Hastie just not got it.

Think the others could be salvagable.

Its unfair to judge Lasley too much on yesterday , but there would need to be a reaction for next week. 

[supermarv]

2 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Bullshit. What have you seen of their progress? I’d wager not a lot.

WOW factor to come in and play consistently? Only one can really be said of that was Turnbull and he is genuinely a once in a generation type. He’s gone, we’ll benefit from monies generated. Allan Campbell didn’t have a WOW factor, but, those who did could see he’d progress - it’s now time to think of life after Campbell. Incredibly naive to think he’d extend a contract beyond his 22 years.

Each has come in when given their chance and offered something different. To further develop a sales pitch for them, those behind haven’t been offered same opportunity- time is on their side though.

Well you’ve summed up Turnbull thanks for that. However Campbell came in and straight away showed heart and desire, tough tackling and in about everything with no hesitation. Scott got a few games and did decent held up the ball well and gradually got better and better. Hastie came in from a loan at Alloa, and was in scintillating form for a few months and earned a deal to Rangers. 

Having watched the reserve games quite a good few times and had others tell me, from my perspective Devine and Hussain none are big commanding leading centre half’s won’t make the grade, Cornelius doesn’t really have much from what I’ve seen not really a tackled a scored not someone that is going to get people off seats and certainly won’t displace anyone in the team. Johnston young lad haven’t seen much but he’ll probably get a chance sooner rather than later. Others out on loan like Semple been a bit part player for Cove Rangers who are top of the league, been pretty anonymous in his few cameos for the first team, Harry Robinson only here cause he’s Robbo’s son. PJ Morrison been around for ages isn’t the answer to the goalkeeping problems. Need the list go on...?

What I’m saying is none have the ability to come and force there way into our first team even in our poor state even Barry Maguire can’t get a game and he’s the same not a great player but could possibly do a job and further ahead than others. We’ve had a great run of youngsters all come through at the one time unfortunately, not every age group that comes up will make it and that looks evident to me at the moment hopefully that changes and I’m proven wrong.

[sinjy]

We lost the two young players who may have come in and made a difference, McAleer?? who went Norwich and McKinstry who went to Leeds. We just cannot hang on to good youngsters. Maybe they would have been the Turnbull and Hastie of this season

[santheman]

1 hour ago, sinjy said:

We lost the two young players who may have come in and made a difference, McAleer?? who went Norwich and McKinstry who went to Leeds. We just cannot hang on to good youngsters. Maybe they would have been the Turnbull and Hastie of this season

And that's the problem you have with the younger players now. As soon as they reach 16 and even before, they're inevitably snapped up by the arse cheeks and English clubs dangling carrots so the chances of the exceptional ones  coming  through the ranks to our 1st team is getting less and less. The golden age days are well and truly gone.

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, sinjy said:

We lost the two young players who may have come in and made a difference, McAleer?? who went Norwich and McKinstry who went to Leeds. We just cannot hang on to good youngsters. Maybe they would have been the Turnbull and Hastie of this season

To get 1 maybe 2 players from the Academy team breaking through into the 1st team is a great result.  In recent years we have had Campbell,  Turnbull, Hastie,,Scott, mcGuire, Cornelius, mcIver all step up and play for the 1st team, add to that mcAleer and McKinstry and we have done exceptionally well in developing our own talent.

But you can't expect that level of success season after season, so its Inevitable  there will be lean years. But Motherwell has a very good reputation  for finding and developing players so I am sure this will continue going  forward.

[Onthefringes]

2 hours ago, supermarv said:

Well you’ve summed up Turnbull thanks for that. However Campbell came in and straight away showed heart and desire, tough tackling and in about everything with no hesitation. Scott got a few games and did decent held up the ball well and gradually got better and better. Hastie came in from a loan at Alloa, and was in scintillating form for a few months and earned a deal to Rangers. 

Having watched the reserve games quite a good few times and had others tell me, from my perspective Devine and Hussain none are big commanding leading centre half’s won’t make the grade, Cornelius doesn’t really have much from what I’ve seen not really a tackled a scored not someone that is going to get people off seats and certainly won’t displace anyone in the team. Johnston young lad haven’t seen much but he’ll probably get a chance sooner rather than later. Others out on loan like Semple been a bit part player for Cove Rangers who are top of the league, been pretty anonymous in his few cameos for the first team, Harry Robinson only here cause he’s Robbo’s son. PJ Morrison been around for ages isn’t the answer to the goalkeeping problems. Need the list go on...?

What I’m saying is none have the ability to come and force there way into our first team even in our poor state even Barry Maguire can’t get a game and he’s the same not a great player but could possibly do a job and further ahead than others. We’ve had a great run of youngsters all come through at the one time unfortunately, not every age group that comes up will make it and that looks evident to me at the moment hopefully that changes and I’m proven wrong.

If silence be good for the wise, how much better for fools?

[supermarv]

18 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

If silence be good for the wise, how much better for fools?

You questioned my statement so I gave you an answer.  End it there with your clear problem you have with myself.

[Onthefringes]

4 minutes ago, supermarv said:

You questioned my statement so I gave you an answer.  End it there with your clear problem you have with myself.

You did. Couldn’t be further from what senior figures & those charged with such roles at the club reckon but, you batter in.

[supermarv]

4 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

You did. Couldn’t be further from what senior figures & those charged with such roles at the club reckon but, you batter in.

If they were as good they’d be in by this stage of the season, I’d like to know where I’m wrong though? 

[Onthefringes]

47 minutes ago, supermarv said:

If they were as good they’d be in by this stage of the season, I’d like to know where I’m wrong though? 

If only it was as simple as that. The ones you lauded didn’t force their way in either so revisionism there. Played out of necessity.

Failing to realise transfer value for one hasn’t helped progress & opportunity has been minimal. That’s fact.

Can also be argued a loyalty to those trusted & experienced seen the downfall of a good manager. He admitted as much in his final post match comments.

I’d call you out on the nepotism claim too, Harry Robinson offered something different to what was available & didn’t hinder progress of any other prospect & certainly of little effect on our budget, but, doubt you’re for listening.

[supermarv]

32 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

If only it was as simple as that. The ones you lauded didn’t force their way in either so revisionism there. Played out of necessity.

Failing to realise transfer value for one hasn’t helped progress & opportunity has been minimal. That’s fact.

Can also be argued a loyalty to those trusted & experienced seen the downfall of a good manager. He admitted as much in his final post match comments.

I’d call you out on the nepotism claim too, Harry Robinson offered something different to what was available & didn’t hinder progress of any other prospect & certainly of little effect on our budget, but, doubt you’re for listening.

Take your point with Robinson as he’s a NI international at all youth levels and made a first team appearance for Oldham but he is only here because of his dad, he’s actually an option that we could’ve used at Left Back where he did play, clearly not getting a game at QoS though.