2021/2022 Rebuild

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 hour ago, MJC_mkII said:

They've not been in the top league quite as long as us but with them being a similar sized club you always kind of took for granted that they'd be there.

When they came up there was still terraces behind both goals.  The first match at Fir Park was a 2-2 draw.  I can't even remember who scored for us but remember Ian Porteous scoring for them.

[MelvinBragg]

46 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

if Kilmarnock had appointed Graham Alexander they'd still have gone down . He inherited a squad of absolute shite. Next year will tell if Kilmarnock made an error with Tommy Wright , will also tell if Motherwell made the right or wrong choice. Im reassured by the fact most of whom I wanted punted appear to getting punted but its a huge close season for GA to get his team up and running.mm

So what you're saying is both managers inherited shite squads and that Alexander turned it around and Wright didn't?  Was the squad Wright inherited noticeably worse than the one that Alexander did?

[middleeastdave]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

I really fail to see what he’s done to justify a return. Maybe a perfect fit for Killy next season.

I am certainly not in favour of Hastie returning, all I know for definite he will not be playing in the Rangers team next season and beyond!!

[CoF]

Moult on the Not the Old Firm podcast thingy this week saying he wouldn't rule out a return here. I imagine he'll have bigger clubs than us after him, however he talks a lot about the importance of enjoying his football and building confidence so it's not a ridiculous move for him. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

8 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

So what you're saying is both managers inherited shite squads and that Alexander turned it around and Wright didn't?  Was the squad Wright inherited noticeably worse than the one that Alexander did?

what im saying is we had a shite squad but not as bad as kilmarnocks. They were easily worse. They had one threat and that was Lafferty , as poor as we were we had two or three options up front.

[Ya Bezzer!]

The most worrying thing about the squad cull is how much dross is still left at the club.  We have four contracted full backs and one is shit and two have big question marks over them.  We have five contracted midfielders and you'd have to worry a bit if that's what we are choosing from next season cos they are all pretty average at best and there doesn't look like there is much creativity or anything different there.  

Dunne getting approached about a new contract is mind boggling.  

Getting Cole in is going to be huge for us and Alexander is going to have to pull out a magic wand in the summer in terms of recruitment.  Two teams just got promoted that will beat our wages.

[FirParkCornerExile]

2 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

The most worrying thing about the squad cull is how much dross is still left at the club.  We have four contracted full backs and one is shit and two have big question marks over them.  We have five contracted midfielders and you'd have to worry a bit if that's what we are choosing from next season cos they are all pretty average at best and there doesn't look like there is much creativity or anything different there.  

Dunne getting approached about a new contract is mind boggling.  

Getting Cole in is going to be huge for us and Alexander is going to have to pull out a magic wand in the summer in terms of recruitment.  Two teams just got promoted that will beat our wages.

Dunne ,and Crawford are a worry that GA thinks they are worth keeping but with the release list he has created capacity. Ill reserve judgement until GA has recruited in full.

[CoF]

2 hours ago, C&A not the shop said:

I imagine he's been invited to pre season training to see how he's holding up. Continuing our arrangement of not casting injured players adrift.

As for young players, thats just the nature of the game. I thought Hussein might have stayed on based on previous hype but evidently not. 

 

From our youth cup winning squad how many have went on to play at a decent level? 

Cadden, Turnbull, Campbell and Hastie.

Even a cup winning youth squad is going to be mostly made up of players that don't make it in the game.

Jack McMillan at Livingstone, and Dom Thomas has had his time in the Premiership with Killie. The rest seem to be floating about league one and two. 

Ben Hall is probably the biggest surprise. Got a great move to Brighton in 2016 and hasn't really kicked a ball till joining Falkirk last year. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

7 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

what im saying is we had a shite squad but not as bad as kilmarnocks. They were easily worse. They had one threat and that was Lafferty , as poor as we were we had two or three options up front.

Kilmarnock were terrible at the back but I don't think they really had a much worse squad.

If you'd swapped Kelly for diddy keepers Doyle and Rogers and gave them Gallagher for Medley/Rossi/Broadfoot they'd have been fine.

They probably had a better midfield and width that us (Power, Dicker, Kiltie, Burke, Pinnock etc.) and they had Lafferty up front of course.

In 2021 they kept 3 clean sheets and conceded 30+ goals.  That was their problem.

[FirParkCornerExile]

Just now, Ya Bezzer! said:

Kilmarnock were terrible at the back but I don't think they really had a much worse squad.

If you'd swapped Kelly for diddy keepers Doyle and Rogers and gave them Gallagher for Medley/Rossi/Broadfoot they'd have been fine.

They probably had a better midfield and width that us (Power, Dicker, Kiltie, Burke, Pinnock etc.) and they had Lafferty up front of course.

In 2021 they kept 3 clean sheets and conceded 30+ goals.  That was their problem.

we will just need to agree to differ

[Spit_It_Out]

4 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

we will just need to agree to differ

Or you could just admit GA Is a decent manager and got the job done with a terrible,lacking in confidence,destined for the drop squad lol.

Nothing really in it between us and Killie squads  all came down to manager selection and our board got it right.

[Kmcalpin]

29 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

The most worrying thing about the squad cull is how much dross is still left at the club.  We have four contracted full backs and one is shit and two have big question marks over them.  We have five contracted midfielders and you'd have to worry a bit if that's what we are choosing from next season cos they are all pretty average at best and there doesn't look like there is much creativity or anything different there.  

Dunne getting approached about a new contract is mind boggling.  

It might well be that Charles Dunne has not been offered a new deal. GA has had no opportunity to assess him in action. He has probably just been invited to take part in pre season to get him fit. As I alluded to earlier there maybe players under contract that GA doesn't fancy and will try to move on. Still a few issues to be teased out and resolved.

[Great Balls of Shire]

1 hour ago, middleeastdave said:

I am certainly not in favour of Hastie returning, all I know for definite he will not be playing in the Rangers team next season and beyond!!

why should he come to us then...his pace would be an asset in lower league,  his lack of football brain also would fit in league 1 or thereabouts. 

[Lobey_Dosser]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

When they came up there was still terraces behind both goals.  The first match at Fir Park was a 2-2 draw.  I can't even remember who scored for us but remember Ian Porteous scoring for them.

That game sticks in my head as it’s the first time I can recall watching us comeback from 2 down. Cooper came off the bench and Big Buff equalised late on. 

[steelboy]

8 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

if Kilmarnock had appointed Graham Alexander they'd still have gone down . He inherited a squad of absolute shite. Next year will tell if Kilmarnock made an error with Tommy Wright , will also tell if Motherwell made the right or wrong choice. Im reassured by the fact most of whom I wanted punted appear to getting punted but its a huge close season for GA to get his team up and running.mm

Alexander turned the team around from an extremely low point around Christmas and New Year. 

It's easy to forget how bad we were in the first half of the season. Red cards, penalties, losing late goals and never scored a single equaliser until the 28th of January. 

[Yorkyred]

7 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

The most worrying thing about the squad cull is how much dross is still left at the club.  We have four contracted full backs and one is shit and two have big question marks over them.  We have five contracted midfielders and you'd have to worry a bit if that's what we are choosing from next season cos they are all pretty average at best and there doesn't look like there is much creativity or anything different there.  

Dunne getting approached about a new contract is mind boggling.  

Getting Cole in is going to be huge for us and Alexander is going to have to pull out a magic wand in the summer in terms of recruitment.  Two teams just got promoted that will beat our wages.

I’m not sure I would go as far as stating dross, the squad still has a number of players I would describe as average at best but the likes of McGinley and Lamie have shown they can perform and do a decent job. I’m personally not a huge fan of Mugabi and Crawford and would not have offered new contracts to them. Dunne  at his best is certainly worth keeping but will he ever get back to his best ? . I’ve always stated the squad was never as bad as was made out, without the injuries we were easily a midtable team, I do however feel midfield could end up a major issue next season without two quality additions.

[wellsince75]

10 hours ago, MJC_mkII said:

I don't see us signing him as I suspect we'd struggle to meet his wage demands, but he's definitely a player that would be worth taking a gamble on if it was possible. We've been needing a goalscorer since Moult left almost four years ago now.

Lafferty is a proven goal scorer but in all honesty I'd find it very hard to warm to him, much like Micky Weir when he was at Hibs, loved to hate him and then we signed him.  

[C&A not the shop]

9 hours ago, CoF said:

Jack McMillan at Livingstone, and Dom Thomas has had his time in the Premiership with Killie. The rest seem to be floating about league one and two. 

Ben Hall is probably the biggest surprise. Got a great move to Brighton in 2016 and hasn't really kicked a ball till joining Falkirk last year. 

Didn't realise that was the same McMillan, was humming and hawwing about including Thomas and Hall. Actually that's a huge number that have kicked on. 

 

Kinda undermines my argument a bit.....

[MelvinBragg]

43 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Lafferty is a proven goal scorer but in all honesty I'd find it very hard to warm to him, much like Micky Weir when he was at Hibs, loved to hate him and then we signed him.  

Lafferty will be 34 in September and while he has done reasonably well at Kilmarnock, during the recent game at Fir Park he was unable to outpace and get away from Ricki Lamie. It's a no from me on that account alone. Could I warm to him? Tricky but not as tricky if we were to sign Paul McGowan...

[Spiderpig]

9 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Kilmarnock were terrible at the back but I don't think they really had a much worse squad.

They finished 11th and were relegated so by definition their squad was the 2nd worst in the league, simples 

[C&A not the shop]

I'd certainly rather we got Cole on a new deal than brought in Lafferty. 

Though even with Cole staying we would still need another striker. 

I could see us working something out with Rangers for Hastie, he hasn't showed much this season but he's clearly well thought of at the club and both Robinson and Alexander have always talked highly of him. Though he would have to be on "project" wages and thats going to be a huge drop from what he was on at rangers.

[Spiderpig]

1 minute ago, C&A not the shop said:

I'd certainly rather we got Cole on a new deal than brought in Lafferty. 

Though even with Cole staying we would still need another striker. 

I could see us working something out with Rangers for Hastie, he hasn't showed much this season but he's clearly well thought of at the club and both Robinson and Alexander have always talked highly of him. Though he would have to be on "project" wages and thats going to be a huge drop from what he was on at rangers.

If its another loan deal Rangers will still be paying the majority of his wages, so it does not matter what we pay him, he still gets the full amount  as per his contract, allegedly in the region of 4k a week if the stories are true.

[Neilwell86]

11 hours ago, santheman said:

I'd take a gamble on Moult before Lafferty.

taking Moult's affiliation with Motherwell out of the equation, why?

Lafferty has scored 12 goals since he made his debut for killie in march, Moult hasn't kicked a ball in 18 months.

Lafferty seem's very much in the Tony Watt mould, folk were very much against that at the time and look how it turned out. Not saying it goes exactly the same way obviously but id rather he was scoring double figures for us than he was for say Dundee UTD.

anyway, it's all hypothetical. 

edit, just seen a post above, lafferty is 34 soon, didn't have him being that old which definitely changes things.

[wellsince75]

8 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

taking Moult's affiliation with Motherwell out of the equation, why?

Lafferty has scored 12 goals since he made his debut for killie in march, Moult hasn't kicked a ball in 18 months.

Lafferty seem's very much in the Tony Watt mould, folk were very much against that at the time and look how it turned out. Not saying it goes exactly the same way obviously but id rather he was scoring double figures for us than he was for say Dundee UTD.

anyway, it's all hypothetical. 

edit, just seen a post above, lafferty is 34 soon, didn't have him being that old which definitely changes things.

Mout =  A good guy
Lafferty  = not a good guy

[Kmcalpin]

11 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

if Kilmarnock had appointed Graham Alexander they'd still have gone down . He inherited a squad of absolute shite. Next year will tell if Kilmarnock made an error with Tommy Wright , will also tell if Motherwell made the right or wrong choice.

In terms of the short term aim of avoiding relegation I don't it know it would have mattered whether Killie appointed Wright or Alexander. Both were capable of keeping them up.  Both squads were poor with dressing room issues. In our case an horrific injury list made things even worse.

The critical factor was not so much which one took over but WHEN they took over. In our case GA took over early in the transfer window and had time to make a few signings, quite a few of which didn't work out admittedly (Kelly, Roberts and, to a lesser extent, Magloire did). Wright took over after the window closed although he did sign Lafferty in a desperate last throw of the dice. Had Stepehn Robinson stayed on much longer, we would have been in much greater danger of going down.