2021/2022 Rebuild

[Yorkyred]

44 minutes ago, David said:

Why do you believe that a player who is seemingly happy here would go out of his way with his seemingly supervillain-esque agent to work against the club? You really think both Watt and his agent were sat there cackling as they read the headlines in the media?

I know it's not a popular theory, but maybe, just maybe, he loves being at the club and he has a lot of affection for the people at the club but simply has to move to earn more money? It doesn't have to be either "Watt loves the club and will refuse any and all offers of more money because he wants to be here" or "he was only kidding on he loved the club, he really hates the club and wants to work with his agent to screw us over."

In fact, I'm willing to bet that there's not a single person either in the offices or in the dressing room who doesn't understand why he wants to leave. We made him our best offer, but he's received a better one from a club an hour a half up the road. 

He's in the form of his life. He'd be mental not to capitalise on it while he can. It's a short career, and you need to bank as much as you can, especially when you're not earning huge money to begin with. 

I would do the same in a heartbeat, anyone wants to offer me two to thee times what I’m earning now let me know, I’m off as soon as. The whole kiss the badge type thing is a mistake but let’s be honest Tony is really just a big kid in an adults body so hardly a shock.

[David]

4 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I would do the same in a heartbeat, anyone wants to offer me two to thee times what I’m earning now let me know, I’m off as soon as. The whole kiss the badge type thing is a mistake but let’s be honest Tony is really just a big kid in an adults body so hardly a shock.

I think he does genuinely have a lot of affection for the club, but he has even more affection for a bump in salary, which is understandable.

As I've said to a few of my mates when discussing this, as much as I like Watt, we've lost far better in the past, and we will lose far better in the future. Onwards and upwards. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

29 minutes ago, David said:

I think he does genuinely have a lot of affection for the club, but he has even more affection for a bump in salary, which is understandable.

As I've said to a few of my mates when discussing this, as much as I like Watt, we've lost far better in the past, and we will lose far better in the future. Onwards and upwards. 

I think that most sensible posters or Well fans can fully understand him wanting to secure the best contract he can aged 28.  

Where I think or know the vitriol is coming from is who it is he is joining.  In the main DDee Utd are inoffensive, but they are a rival and by a lot of measurements not that much bigger a club. So a frustration that a rival club can blow our offer out of the water and he could continue playing well and make them a better team.

If he headed south there would be few noises or complaints.  How it is and always will be.

[Yorkyred]

50 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I think that most sensible posters or Well fans can fully understand him wanting to secure the best contract he can aged 28.  

Where I think or know the vitriol is coming from is who it is he is joining.  In the main DDee Utd are inoffensive, but they are a rival and by a lot of measurements not that much bigger a club. So a frustration that a rival club can blow our offer out of the water and he could continue playing well and make them a better team.

If he headed south there would be few noises or complaints.  How it is and always will be.

While we don’t know what he’s getting I would be more worried if a Dundee United supporter that they are heading back into trouble. Motherwell could start throwing money  around again but I doubt it would end well

[Onthefringes]

57 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I think that most sensible posters or Well fans can fully understand him wanting to secure the best contract he can aged 28.  

Where I think or know the vitriol is coming from is who it is he is joining.  In the main DDee Utd are inoffensive, but they are a rival and by a lot of measurements not that much bigger a club. So a frustration that a rival club can blow our offer out of the water and he could continue playing well and make them a better team.

If he headed south there would be few noises or complaints.  How it is and always will be.

On the face of it, can understand the merits there.

No guarantees he’d have signed a renewed contract if we’d matched their offer though.

Club don’t get many of these moves wrong, I’m inclined to keep faith in their decision here.

[Spiderpig]

5 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

While we don’t know what he’s getting I would be more worried if a Dundee United supporter that they are heading back into trouble. Motherwell could start throwing money  around again but I doubt it would end well

Current rumours if true suggest the Untd offer to Watt is in the region of 4k per week, no doubt there will be a substantial signing on fee as well.

So a 3 year package in excess of 624k plus any bonuses no wonder he took it, how Untd finance it is their issue but its a no brainer for Watt.

[Kmcalpin]

2 hours ago, David said:

Why do you believe that a player who is seemingly happy here would go out of his way with his seemingly supervillain-esque agent to work against the club? You really think both Watt and his agent were sat there cackling as they read the headlines in the media?

I know it's not a popular theory, but maybe, just maybe, he loves being at the club and he has a lot of affection for the people at the club but simply has to move to earn more money? It doesn't have to be either "Watt loves the club and will refuse any and all offers of more money because he wants to be here" or "he was only kidding on he loved the club, he really hates the club and wants to work with his agent to screw us over."

In fact, I'm willing to bet that there's not a single person either in the offices or in the dressing room who doesn't understand why he wants to leave. We made him our best offer, but he's received a better one from a club an hour a half up the road. 

He's in the form of his life. He'd be mental not to capitalise on it while he can. It's a short career, and you need to bank as much as you can, especially when you're not earning huge money to begin with. 

Depending on what stage the negotiations are at, he could have/could take heat off himself by making a simple statement. I've no problem with him moving on, just the way that it has come out. If he had said some time ago that he liked our club but was thinking of moving on as this would be last big pay day; football is a short career (or a similar form of words) and he would try his heart out for MFC as long as he was our player I don't think many would have taken umbrage at him.    

[FirParkCornerExile]

13 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Current rumours if true suggest the Untd offer to Watt is in the region of 4k per week, no doubt there will be a substantial signing on fee as well.

So a 3 year package in excess of 624k plus any bonuses no wonder he took it, how Untd finance it is their issue but its a no brainer for Watt.

If TW is getting in the region of three quarters of million pounds over 3 years - if some social media is to be believed. You have to ask yourself would/should Motherwell pay that for the outside chance of 2 games in Europe because that's all we or they are likely to achieve. For me the answer is no. If UTD have money to burn to achieve exactly the same that's up to them but it's not value for money. I know people will say European money can be big and a possible cup win both of which would be no means certain for either Dundee UTD or Motherwell with or without Tony Watt . I find Dundee Utds splash the cash approach difficult to fathom considering their debt and that fans are regularly plugging financial gaps in their budget. Mid table mediocrity or even 4th is not a reason to break the budget for Tony Watt , well not for me anyway.

[spudmfc]

Do we really need a replacement

TW 9 goals in 18 starts

KVV 7 +1 assist in 13 starts

Meant t add that 2 of TW 9 were pens

Given that kvv may play more central I'll put my neck on the line n say he'll outscore TW(IF he goes to utd now)

[Kmcalpin]

4 minutes ago, spudmfc said:

Do we really need a replacement

TW 9 goals in 18 starts

KVV 7 +1 assist in 13 starts

Meant t add that 2 of TW 9 were pens

Given that kvv may play more central I'll put my neck on the line n say he'll outscore TW(IF he goes to utd now)

Yes. 

KVV may outscore TW  but he can blow hot and cold, is a little injury prone and has a questionable temperament. Who steps in if he is unavailable? There's also no guarantee that Conor Shields will remain completely injury free. 

[C&A not the shop]

5 minutes ago, spudmfc said:

Do we really need a replacement

TW 9 goals in 18 starts

KVV 7 +1 assist in 13 starts

Meant t add that 2 of TW 9 were pens

Given that kvv may play more central I'll put my neck on the line n say he'll outscore TW(IF he goes to utd now)

Yes, because if one was injured the othelp would play central, either Watt or KVV was a good option through the middle but with Watt gone who plays through the middle if KVV is injured.

I think Woolery is improving week on week but his end product isn't there yet, Shields isn't going to hold the ball up the way we need so another option is required.

[mfc]

I think we will sign another striker even if watt stays as i really don't think alexander will play him.squad wise I think we're in decent shape,I really like the options we have at centre back, odonnell and mcginley have upped there game recently.i still dont think we have found the perfect blend in midfield yet but goss is looking better all the time,I'm not sure how much we will see of tierney right away but he seems to be an exciting signing and one to look forward too.i would be tempted to send roberts back to hearts and bring a fresh face in but it wouldn't be the end of the world if he re-signs to the end of the season.we have put ourselves in a great position and maybe with one or two new faces,there's no reason why we can't keep our form going in the second half of the season.

[santheman]

4 hours ago, David said:

Why do you believe that a player who is seemingly happy here would go out of his way with his seemingly supervillain-esque agent to work against the club? You really think both Watt and his agent were sat there cackling as they read the headlines in the media?

I know it's not a popular theory, but maybe, just maybe, he loves being at the club and he has a lot of affection for the people at the club but simply has to move to earn more money? It doesn't have to be either "Watt loves the club and will refuse any and all offers of more money because he wants to be here" or "he was only kidding on he loved the club, he really hates the club and wants to work with his agent to screw us over."

In fact, I'm willing to bet that there's not a single person either in the offices or in the dressing room who doesn't understand why he wants to leave. We made him our best offer, but he's received a better one from a club an hour a half up the road. 

He's in the form of his life. He'd be mental not to capitalise on it while he can. It's a short career, and you need to bank as much as you can, especially when you're not earning huge money to begin with. 

Don't think it's Tony going out of his way to engineer an early move but his agent and Tony is just going with the flow to see how things pan out and I don't blame him.

Someone has blabbed to the press and I'm pretty sure it ain't Tony or MFC

I genuinely believe Tony is happy here and would be quite happy to play to the end of the season and give his all but the stories circulating around a possible January move to Utd has definitely split the support.

Personally I would love him to stay and help us get into Europe but think I'm definitely in the minority.

I wish him well in his new club as I would any player moving on and certainly don't hold any ill will towards him. Anyone with the opportunity of increasing his income would be daft not to. 

[grizzlyg]

I don't grudge anyone moving on for more money,  we would all do it with our own jobs. What I don't get with TW is they seem to have accepted first offer from another club.  With championship clubs keen he could have earned more.  Also he might have blown any chances of Scotland call up as he might not feature much now unless utd pay us cash to take him away in January.  

[FirParkCornerExile]

11 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I don't grudge anyone moving on for more money,  we would all do it with our own jobs. What I don't get with TW is they seem to have accepted first offer from another club.  With championship clubs keen he could have earned more.  Also he might have blown any chances of Scotland call up as he might not feature much now unless utd pay us cash to take him away in January.  

There is also the very likely chance no one else made him an offer. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

25 minutes ago, santheman said:

Don't think it's Tony going out of his way to engineer an early move but his agent and Tony is just going with the flow to see how things pan out and I don't blame him.

Someone has blabbed to the press and I'm pretty sure it ain't Tony or MFC

I genuinely believe Tony is happy here and would be quite happy to play to the end of the season and give his all but the stories circulating around a possible January move to Utd has definitely split the support.

Personally I would love him to stay and help us get into Europe but think I'm definitely in the minority.

I wish him well in his new club as I would any player moving on and certainly don't hold any ill will towards him. Anyone with the opportunity of increasing his income would be daft not to. 

Dont wish anyone well playing against us or chasing the same prizes as us. Same with Gallagher and Cadden. Hope they are forever shite whilst playing with clubs in the same league.,

[ropy]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

Personally I would love him to stay and help us get into Europe but think I'm definitely in the minority.

I wish him well in his new club as I would any player moving on and certainly don't hold any ill will towards him. Anyone with the opportunity of increasing his income would be daft not to. 

He has a contract to the end of the season, if GA thinks he is sufficiently motivated and performing well I would have him in the team.

[David]

5 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Depending on what stage the negotiations are at, he could have/could take heat off himself by making a simple statement. I've no problem with him moving on, just the way that it has come out. If he had said some time ago that he liked our club but was thinking of moving on as this would be last big pay day; football is a short career (or a similar form of words) and he would try his heart out for MFC as long as he was our player I don't think many would have taken umbrage at him.    

I'm not sure a statement is the way to go. As of now there's nothing been announced, has there? So no need to be doing or saying anything. All he has to do is keep training, make himself available if the manager needs him. 

If he signs a pre-contract then fine, but unless United pay the required fee he won't be leaving in January, so he's our player and as long as his mentality is right and he's training well there's no need not to play him.

2 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I don't grudge anyone moving on for more money,  we would all do it with our own jobs. What I don't get with TW is they seem to have accepted first offer from another club.  With championship clubs keen he could have earned more.  Also he might have blown any chances of Scotland call up as he might not feature much now unless utd pay us cash to take him away in January.  

He was supposedly being looked at by Blackburn Rovers, Bristol City, Birmingham City and Preston North End. But while they could more than likely blow United out the water with any offer, it has to be considered if he and his family want to up sticks and move to somewhere like Lancashire, Bristol, Birmingham or Preston. 

Dundee United are an hour and a half up the road from Fir Park, so maybe he was looking to stay in Scotland.

[mfc]

21 minutes ago, David said:

I'm not sure a statement is the way to go. As of now there's nothing been announced, has there? So no need to be doing or saying anything. All he has to do is keep training, make himself available if the manager needs him. 

If he signs a pre-contract then fine, but unless United pay the required fee he won't be leaving in January, so he's our player and as long as his mentality is right and he's training well there's no need not to play him.

He was supposedly being looked at by Blackburn Rovers, Bristol City, Birmingham City and Preston North End. But while they could more than likely blow United out the water with any offer, it has to be considered if he and his family want to up sticks and move to somewhere like Lancashire, Bristol, Birmingham or Preston. 

Dundee United are an hour and a half up the road from Fir Park, so maybe he was looking to stay in Scotland.

You could well be right there,maybe watts intention all along has been to stay in scotland and go with the highest offer that comes his way.he was never getting a move to old firm teams and if the edinburgh clubs or aberdeen wanted him he would have ended up at any of those.in terms of budget dundee utd are next in line so it's not real surprise they have offered him a deal that's persuaded him to go up there.

[grumpy]

3 hours ago, santheman said:

Don't think it's Tony going out of his way to engineer an early move but his agent and Tony is just going with the flow to see how things pan out and I don't blame him.

Someone has blabbed to the press and I'm pretty sure it ain't Tony or MFC

I genuinely believe Tony is happy here and would be quite happy to play to the end of the season and give his all but the stories circulating around a possible January move to Utd has definitely split the support.

Personally I would love him to stay and help us get into Europe but think I'm definitely in the minority.

I wish him well in his new club as I would any player moving on and certainly don't hold any ill will towards him. Anyone with the opportunity of increasing his income would be daft not to. 

You may be in the minority but you are not alone, he was giving 100% before this story started circulating and I see no reason why that should change if he is given a chance to play.

3 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I don't grudge anyone moving on for more money,  we would all do it with our own jobs. What I don't get with TW is they seem to have accepted first offer from another club.  With championship clubs keen he could have earned more.  Also he might have blown any chances of Scotland call up as he might not feature much now unless utd pay us cash to take him away in January.  

That is what I don't get, why the rush to sign now when he could walk away at the end of the season anyway, it stops the discussion about signing a new deal with us but just opens up a different discussion re playing with us if no offer from Dundee U is forthcoming / agreed.  Not playing for us or not settling quickly at DU also blows away any hopes he has of a Scotland call up and a potential World Cup appearance.

That all said, if the £4k a week is true, and we offered £3k ( made up number, I have no idea), then that is and annual pay rise of £52k per annum, significantly more than my salary. I know what I would do if someone offered me a £52k a year rise.

[joewarkfanclub]

6 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Depending on what stage the negotiations are at, he could have/could take heat off himself by making a simple statement. I've no problem with him moving on, just the way that it has come out. If he had said some time ago that he liked our club but was thinking of moving on as this would be last big pay day; football is a short career (or a similar form of words) and he would try his heart out for MFC as long as he was our player I don't think many would have taken umbrage at him.    

You mean like Louis Moult?

[davkel]

Strange that nothing ever came to light about the transfer request that Watt handed in near the end of Robinson’s reign.....and was rejected..

[Onthefringes]

23 minutes ago, davkel said:

Strange that nothing ever came to light about the transfer request that Watt handed in near the end of Robinson’s reign.....and was rejected..

Cat right amongst the pigeons there…

[wunderwell]

As I've always said pay attention to OnTheFringes posts, there usually bang on - and feel closer to the inner confines.

From my perspective things are relatively simple from a fans perspective

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/motherwell-fc/alletransfers/verein/987

Outlines our outbound transfers - note the heroes and villians about inter divisional transfers. I don't think there's any bad blood with anyone moving down south.

Tony Watt therefore feels the wrath. Has he been good in the dressing room, my gut says yes and helps a positive spirit and that will be missed. It was a hard spell for us facing relegation and Tony helped us in times where we faced kilmarnock-esque oblivion. Thank you Tony - do I hope you do well, not really. Do I thank you for your performances in a well shirt....yes, and well done.

Worst one was selling Owen Coyle pre cup quarter final v Inverness......that was unforgivable....

We move on.

[wunderwell]

Ps some gems Ray Allan is only 66, could be a good third choice keeps.