2021/2022 Rebuild

[FirParkCornerExile]

14 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Two reasons, David.

Firstly he has been badge kissing and playing up to the fans for some time now. You'll remember that he jumped up onto the East Stand barrier wall for example. He also said that he liked it at Motherwell. Now I'm not against anyone celebrating when he scores a goal for us, but these actions were more theatrical than most. The first time that news broke publicly about him turning down our offers and stating his intention to move on was 10 December.  Talks had apparently broken down. Now these talks don't just start and conclude in a day or so they can take weeks or even months.  So while he was playing to the fans its likely that he had decided to move on at the end of the season. In short he built up unrealistic expectations. He would have been better advised to tone down the rapport with the punters. In fairness, he's not the first nor will he be the last to do this. 

Secondly, the leak about moving to Dundee United. This occurred on Christmas Eve, just before we were due to play our final game before the break. Very odd. Now he could have been negotiating a move with United since 1 November and thats perfectly fine. Someone leaked news of the PCA to the press. Now that could only have been himself, his agent (surely acting on his permission), Dundee United or "a source close to".  This has been fairly widely publicised in the press most notably by the Courier. There was no need whatsoever for this, unless it was designed to instigate a move next month. Many clubs and players sign players on PCAs, including us, but very few publicise them so well in advance unless they're trying to pressurise the selling club into an early move. Not professional or courteous in my view.  Had the leak come from the player or his agent, without the approval of United it would have been very risky indeed. How would he know that United had the cash to sign him next month? He's bound to have known the fallout it would cause at Fir Park and if he didn't his agent certainly would know. It might have caused a rift with United.  No, the most likely explanation is that it came from United who used the press to their advantage. Now its no secret they want to strengthen their striking department next month.  Once the story had been leaked to a compliant journo before the window opened United, Watt and his agent could afford to lie low and keep quiet - job done. The leak had achieved its purpose, by pressurising our club.

I'm sure there's much more to this than I know and I may have made false assumptions but thats my take on it. 

   

Couldn't agree more.

[GazzyB]

I could be wrong but I think those quotes are from a few weeks ago, seems like a re-hashed article to include that he was on the bench on Boxing Day. 

[capt_oats]

14 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

I could be wrong but I think those quotes are from a few weeks ago, seems like a re-hashed article to include that he was on the bench on Boxing Day. 

Try months rather than weeks.

The quotes are from an article that ran 25th October: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/motherwells-tony-watt-love-here-25290915

[texanwellfan]

2 hours ago, mfc said:

So his next deal is where he feels happy but yet he's meant to be happy where he is.lets be honest you don't move to dundee utd to enhance your ability,he's going for the money,which I don't have a problem with.i hope this is resolved and we can move on as soon as.

I read it as he wants to be making as much as he can at a place where he will be happy. So sounds  like he wants to stay in Scotland. For me that would explain him taking the offer now rather than waiting till end of season. If Utd beat our best offer by quite a bit then he jumped at it. 

[santheman]

1 hour ago, texanwellfan said:

I read it as he wants to be making as much as he can at a place where he will be happy. So sounds  like he wants to stay in Scotland. For me that would explain him taking the offer now rather than waiting till end of season. If Utd beat our best offer by quite a bit then he jumped at it. 

Heard from a mutual friend that his missus has started some kind of College/Uni course and wants to stay in Scotland to finish it so that would make sense.

[GazzyB]

4 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Try months rather than weeks.

The quotes are from an article that ran 25th October: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/motherwells-tony-watt-love-here-25290915

Oh wow, didn't realise it was that long ago, talk about misleading journalism.

[FirParkCornerExile]

1 hour ago, GazzyB said:

Oh wow, didn't realise it was that long ago, talk about misleading journalism.

That what so called journalism is, presenting a narrative , not necessarily true,  but to suit an agenda. Hence the clusterfuck this country is currently in.

[Stuwell2]

6 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

So does that mean he was unhappy at Motherwell? Unhappiest badge Kisser I've ever seen.

Wouldn’t worry about anything written or quotes from him - it’s not like he’s going to say he loved his time here, was sad to leave but money talks and he’s only off to Dundee Utd for the cash. 
personally, I think he was happy here, enjoyed his retort with the fans and will leave with fond memories. 

[dazlhigh]

We've done quite well in digging up strikers who have come, been very helpful to the cause, then left - Sutton, Higdon, Moult, Cole and, to a lesser extent, Long,  for example. It happens; as ever, we just move on, hoping hat KVV will fill the bill.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/8221131/dundee-united-tony-watt-head-around-motherwell

Michael Stewart's take on it

[FirParkCornerExile]

3 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/8221131/dundee-united-tony-watt-head-around-motherwell

Michael Stewart's take on it

Michael talks alot of sense at times. However we need to move on and forget TW he's nailed his colours to the mast and it ain't our mast. I have no interest in him whatsoever any more, ex players don't interest me in the slightest never have. I know all the arguments about him seeing it out with us til the summer or not. I frankly don't care, I'm bored of it now. We will survive his loss and we have to look forward to OUR not HIS January window and get guys in who strengthen our current solid position not be thinking  about someone who has no interest in our club. He is becoming a distraction.

[weeyin]

3 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

He is becoming a distraction.

I think it only becomes a distraction for the fans. And, of course, the papers need to keep recycling stories to fill their pages this time of year.

For clubs and players this business as usual and they have no problems dealing with it. You can guarantee GA and the scouts would have multiple targets lined up to replace TW since the summer (in case he moved then), and will have others in mind this window if required.

On the other hand GA might be happy enough having Shields step up as a ready-made replacement and not worry about trying to find another striker until the summer.

[GazzyB]

4 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Michael talks alot of sense at times. However we need to move on and forget TW he's nailed his colours to the mast and it ain't our mast. I have no interest in him whatsoever any more, ex players don't interest me in the slightest never have. I know all the arguments about him seeing it out with us til the summer or not. I frankly don't care, I'm bored of it now. We will survive his loss and we have to look forward to OUR not HIS January window and get guys in who strengthen our current solid position not be thinking  about someone who has no interest in our club. He is becoming a distraction.

If you don't care and you're bored of it that's fine but there are others who'd quite like to keep discussing it, especially when there's fuck all else to talk about for a few weeks.

[steelboy]

If we sell Watt we need a replacement. Him and KVV have scored the majority of our goals and you can't be totally reliant on one player. 

The Scotsman are linking big Bevis with Celtic. There is probably nothing in it but I think he will be off at the end of the season. He has been exceptional all through 2021 and will have offers. 

 

[decorator]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:56 PM, santheman said:

Heard from a mutual friend that his missus has started some kind of College/Uni course and wants to stay in Scotland to finish it so that would make sense.

you sure tw is not single?

[Thunderlips]

2 hours ago, decorator said:

you sure tw is not single?

His twitter definitely implies he's married. https://twitter.com/32watto?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

[FirParkCornerExile]

5 hours ago, GazzyB said:

If you don't care and you're bored of it that's fine but there are others who'd quite like to keep discussing it, especially when there's fuck all else to talk about for a few weeks.

what more can be said... player doesnt want to stay , player signs pre contract , player will be leaving. There is discussing and flogging  a dead horse.

[texanwellfan]

…. And many a dead horse has been flogged over the years

[weeyin]

7 hours ago, steelboy said:

If we sell Watt we need a replacement. Him and KVV have scored the majority of our goals and you can't be totally reliant on one player. 

The Scotsman are linking big Bevis with Celtic. There is probably nothing in it but I think he will be off at the end of the season. He has been exceptional all through 2021 and will have offers. 

 

I've been a fan of Bevis, but it's a credit to GA and the team that if he did leave in January we would still be in good shape for central defenders.

[MelvinBragg]

25 minutes ago, weeyin said:

I've been a fan of Bevis, but it's a credit to GA and the team that if he did leave in January we would still be in good shape for central defenders.

Not so sure on that front. I agree Ojala looks a class act, so much so that I reckon the only reason he's at Fir Park is his patchy injury record. With O'Connor injured and Solholm seemingly prone to picking up knocks, we're not as well served as it looks like on paper...

[weeyin]

3 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

Not so sure on that front. I agree Ojala looks a class act, so much so that I reckon the only reason he's at Fir Park is his patchy injury record. With O'Connor injured and Solholm seemingly prone to picking up knocks, we're not as well served as it looks like on paper...

We still have Lamie, Donnelly, Maguire and O'Hara that can play there even if Sol and Ojala are injured. Not to mention Carroll at a push.

[Kmcalpin]

11 hours ago, weeyin said:

We still have Lamie, Donnelly, Maguire and O'Hara that can play there even if Sol and Ojala are injured. Not to mention Carroll at a push.

I'm with Melvin on this. On paper we're in a very strong position but in reality I'm not so sure.

I like what I've seen of Soland & Ojala but they do seem injury prone.  Mugabi has been a constant rock this season but has yet to extend his contract. Lamie was/is injured and has yet to sign a new deal - reportedly being monitored by English clubs. O'Connor is largely untested, on loan and currently injured.

Others are simply back up.  Donnelly just returned from injury and O'Hara (makeshift at best) is out long term.  Maguire is not a central defender and neither is Carroll.

Early days but we need to get central defence sorted for next season. That said, the management team will be well of aware of issues and have demonstrated so far that they like a big strong central defence.

[David]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:06 AM, Kmcalpin said:

Firstly he has been badge kissing and playing up to the fans for some time now. You'll remember that he jumped up onto the East Stand barrier wall for example. He also said that he liked it at Motherwell. Now I'm not against anyone celebrating when he scores a goal for us, but these actions were more theatrical than most. The first time that news broke publicly about him turning down our offers and stating his intention to move on was 10 December.  Talks had apparently broken down. Now these talks don't just start and conclude in a day or so they can take weeks or even months.  So while he was playing to the fans its likely that he had decided to move on at the end of the season. In short he built up unrealistic expectations. He would have been better advised to tone down the rapport with the punters. In fairness, he's not the first nor will he be the last to do this. 

Oh, come on. You'd rather he didn't build a rapport with a clubs fans because he'll end up leaving one day? That's insanity. 

If I was a footballer and I was playing at Dundee United, loving my time there, glad to get my career back on track and hitting career-high numbers I'd be more than happy to build a bond with the fans. What I wouldn't expect is grown men and women thinking that by doing so I was signalling my intention to turn down more money to stay there. 

That's the kind of thing I imagine we'd need to explain to our kids who support the club, not actually deal with it ourselves. 

On 12/31/2021 at 1:52 PM, yosemite sam said:

Let's see if the manager agrees with you.

You did see that I'd said "Unless the player gives the manager a reason to take such harsh action it shouldn't be considered," didn't you? If the manager drops him it will be because he doesn't believe his head is in the game or he's not focused enough, which is fair enough.

What I wouldn't want to see is a player "punished" for having the sheer audacity to take a deal that secures his financial future. What would that say to the rest of the squad? Or future signings? That we're happy to bring you in, give you a platform, but if you don't do things our way we'll treat you like a leper and force you to train with the kids and sit in the stands? 

Not a good look.

[smiddy]

19 minutes ago, David said:

Oh, come on. You'd rather he didn't build a rapport with a clubs fans because he'll end up leaving one day? That's insanity. 

If I was a footballer and I was playing at Dundee United, loving my time there, glad to get my career back on track and hitting career-high numbers I'd be more than happy to build a bond with the fans. What I wouldn't expect is grown men and women thinking that by doing so I was signalling my intention to turn down more money to stay there. 

That's the kind of thing I imagine we'd need to explain to our kids who support the club, not actually deal with it ourselves. 

You did see that I'd said "Unless the player gives the manager a reason to take such harsh action it shouldn't be considered," didn't you? If the manager drops him it will be because he doesn't believe his head is in the game or he's not focused enough, which is fair enough.

What I wouldn't want to see is a player "punished" for having the sheer audacity to take a deal that secures his financial future. What would that say to the rest of the squad? Or future signings? That we're happy to bring you in, give you a platform, but if you don't do things our way we'll treat you like a leper and force you to train with the kids and sit in the stands? 

Not a good look.

if he stays and plays, do you realistically think come march/ april  and the manager thought his head was right  that if the chance came up for him to score with a 50/50 where he would probably get an injury    does he go for it , or leave it,   i think i know the answer, with the carrot dangling in front of him he aint going to risk an injury,,,, bye bye TW dont let the door hit yir erse on the way out 

[Kmcalpin]

5 hours ago, David said:

Oh, come on. You'd rather he didn't build a rapport with a clubs fans because he'll end up leaving one day? That's insanity. 

If I was a footballer and I was playing at Dundee United, loving my time there, glad to get my career back on track and hitting career-high numbers I'd be more than happy to build a bond with the fans. What I wouldn't expect is grown men and women thinking that by doing so I was signalling my intention to turn down more money to stay there. 

That's the kind of thing I imagine we'd need to explain to our kids who support the club, not actually deal with it ourselves. 

You did see that I'd said "Unless the player gives the manager a reason to take such harsh action it shouldn't be considered," didn't you? If the manager drops him it will be because he doesn't believe his head is in the game or he's not focused enough, which is fair enough.

What I wouldn't want to see is a player "punished" for having the sheer audacity to take a deal that secures his financial future. What would that say to the rest of the squad? Or future signings? That we're happy to bring you in, give you a platform, but if you don't do things our way we'll treat you like a leper and force you to train with the kids and sit in the stands? 

Not a good look.

At no point did I say that a player shouldn't build a rapport with the fans. However Tony Watt has probably said too much or, as I said, been a bit theatrical at times. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.  Its quite ok to have good relations with the fanbase without being OTT.

It will be up to GA as to whether he plays or not and I've no problem with that. However, a conflict of interest could well arise when we play Dundee United or are neck and neck with them for a top 6 slot. We don't know exactly what discussions have taken place between the player, his agent and our management. From GA's comments this morning it doesn't seem as though there's been much recent contact and that may be a factor. Like you I don't want to see any player punished for looking for a "better deal", but this is not what its about. Its about what is best for MFC. If he doesn't move in this window and is benched or sent to train with the youngsters it will be because  the manager thinks that that is best for the team, not because he's being petty,  spiteful or vindictive. 

All the best for 2022.