2021/2022 Rebuild

[Goggles & Flippers]

Sincerely can't fathom the Kelly chat. He's a QPR player who earned a decent move to a mid table championship club. So talk of him maybe getting a move to a decent English side, he's kinda already there, just not favoured.  They have someone ahead of him in the pecking order so the chance of regular game time to a club in a bit of bind was no doubt welcome by all parties. He's still got a two years on his deal there and on decent wedge. The only way he'd come north in the summer is to go to Edinburgh or Aberdeen I suspect based on their spending power. Only thing we may have is Alexander may give him the "We're building something great here" speech, regular football or some extra x-factor. You'd expect Carson to be fit by August so do you think he'd return from QPR to be an understudy at FP?

[Yorkyred]

5 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

Sincerely can't fathom the Kelly chat. He's a QPR player who earned a decent move to a mid table championship club. So talk of him maybe getting a move to a decent English side, he's kinda already there, just not favoured.  They have someone ahead of him in the pecking order so the chance of regular game time to a club in a bit of bind was no doubt welcome by all parties. He's still got a two years on his deal there and on decent wedge. The only way he'd come north in the summer is to go to Edinburgh or Aberdeen I suspect based on their spending power. Only thing we may have is Alexander may give him the "We're building something great here" speech, regular football or some extra x-factor. You'd expect Carson to be fit by August so do you think he'd return from QPR to be an understudy at FP?

I have a feeling if he stayed here Kelly would end up the number one but I don’t see it happening anyway. As you say I think the only way he’d stay up north would be if he signed for one of the bigger clubs, other than that he’s back down south. I think that also applies to Cole who’s record over the last few months should see him set.

[Neilwell86]

Kelly, has apparently, said he would be interested in a return, he is enjoying his football (god knows how), and even used the words it feels like home i'm sure. I don't think it is completely out the question, no idea how the finances would work or anything but I don't think it is completely out the question. 

If he was to come back, I would fully expect him to be the number one? 

Is Morrison ready to make the step up? probably as the number two, seems to have been well thought where ever he has went on loan.

[Kmcalpin]

7 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

Sincerely can't fathom the Kelly chat. He's a QPR player who earned a decent move to a mid table championship club. So talk of him maybe getting a move to a decent English side, he's kinda already there, just not favoured.  They have someone ahead of him in the pecking order so the chance of regular game time to a club in a bit of bind was no doubt welcome by all parties. He's still got a two years on his deal there and on decent wedge. The only way he'd come north in the summer is to go to Edinburgh or Aberdeen I suspect based on their spending power. Only thing we may have is Alexander may give him the "We're building something great here" speech, regular football or some extra x-factor. You'd expect Carson to be fit by August so do you think he'd return from QPR to be an understudy at FP?

Pretty much agree with that Goggles, but I have doubts over Carson's long term fitness. Is he fit enough to be number one? We've heard nothing for months.

Other than that, I reckon, or hope,  that we'll need 2 first choice central defenders, an attacking midfielder, a winger, and potentially 3 strikers. Thats on the basis that no-one else re-signs,  loanees don't return and that the likes of Campbell, Gallagher, and Long leave.

[Spiderpig]

57 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

Kelly, has apparently, said he would be interested in a return, he is enjoying his football (god knows how), and even used the words it feels like home i'm sure. I don't think it is completely out the question, no idea how the finances would work or anything but I don't think it is completely out the question. 

If he was to come back, I would fully expect him to be the number one? 

Is Morrison ready to make the step up? probably as the number two, seems to have been well thought where ever he has went on loan.

I would love Kelly to stay for at least another season if he is up for it and it works for both Motherwell and QPR financially.  However that would give us a problem with Carson, assuming he is fit for the start of the new season, would he be happy as 2nd choice and if so will Morrison hang around as 3rd choice , and when will Fox be fit?

 I see difficult choices for GA re who is his 1st choice keeper, but maybe having 4 keepers on the books is a luxury we can't afford.

[C&A not the shop]

If Carson is fit he'll be number one and either Morrison or someone like Fox will be back up. If Carson is not available maybe we can get an extra 6 months loan out of Kelly.

I Gallacher, Cole and Campbell will be away and we will need to look to replace them with similar quality.  Long will be gone I think and as will some of the fringe players but I don't see them being replaced like for like. 

I don't see much coming in beyond that.

Wouldn't be surprised to see us start next season in a 4-4-2 with 

GK: Carson

RB: O'Donnell

CB: Mugabe

CB: New Centre Back

LB: Carroll/McGinley

MF: Donnelly 

MF: Crawford

MF:Lawless

MF: New midfielder.

FW: Watt

FW: New Striker

The key will be those three new players and how good they are and how well they settle along with injuries.

I think that also allows us to go with 3 at the back, or even 3 up front if we bring in another striker on top of the above. Would have Morrison, Grimshaw, Maguire, Lamie as senior players from the bench and filled out with the younger players that are at that stage. Who that ends up being is a different question.

Maybe 5 new faces, 3 permanent and a couple of quality loans. 

 

Or I could be miles off and its a full new team.

[livivoice]

41 minutes ago, C&A not the shop said:

If Carson is fit he'll be number one and either Morrison or someone like Fox will be back up. If Carson is not available maybe we can get an extra 6 months loan out of Kelly.

I Gallacher, Cole and Campbell will be away and we will need to look to replace them with similar quality.  Long will be gone I think and as will some of the fringe players but I don't see them being replaced like for like. 

I don't see much coming in beyond that.

Wouldn't be surprised to see us start next season in a 4-4-2 with 

GK: Carson

RB: O'Donnell

CB: Mugabe

CB: New Centre Back

LB: Carroll/McGinley

MF: Donnelly 

MF: Crawford

MF:Lawless

MF: New midfielder.

FW: Watt

FW: New Striker

The key will be those three new players and how good they are and how well they settle along with injuries.

I think that also allows us to go with 3 at the back, or even 3 up front if we bring in another striker on top of the above. Would have Morrison, Grimshaw, Maguire, Lamie as senior players from the bench and filled out with the younger players that are at that stage. Who that ends up being is a different question.

Maybe 5 new faces, 3 permanent and a couple of quality loans. 

 

Or I could be miles off and its a full new team.

Are you forgetting O' Hara?

[texanwellfan]

Is Lamie gone? He has showed up much better as center back

[C&A not the shop]

2 hours ago, livivoice said:

Are you forgetting O' Hara?

Yes I am. 

He would probably start ahead of Crawford.

[ropy]

2 minutes ago, C&A not the shop said:

Yes I am. 

He would probably start ahead of Crawford.

He could fill the CB gap if needs be

[Kmac]

3 hours ago, C&A not the shop said:

If Carson is fit he'll be number one and either Morrison or someone like Fox will be back up. If Carson is not available maybe we can get an extra 6 months loan out of Kelly.

I Gallacher, Cole and Campbell will be away and we will need to look to replace them with similar quality.  Long will be gone I think and as will some of the fringe players but I don't see them being replaced like for like. 

I don't see much coming in beyond that.

Wouldn't be surprised to see us start next season in a 4-4-2 with 

GK: Carson

RB: O'Donnell

CB: Mugabe

CB: New Centre Back

LB: Carroll/McGinley

MF: Donnelly 

MF: Crawford

MF:Lawless

MF: New midfielder.

FW: Watt

FW: New Striker

The key will be those three new players and how good they are and how well they settle along with injuries.

I think that also allows us to go with 3 at the back, or even 3 up front if we bring in another striker on top of the above. Would have Morrison, Grimshaw, Maguire, Lamie as senior players from the bench and filled out with the younger players that are at that stage. Who that ends up being is a different question.

Maybe 5 new faces, 3 permanent and a couple of quality loans. 

 

Or I could be miles off and its a full new team.

If we want to finish higher in the league than this season, neither Crawford or Lawless can be considered as starters. Both are adequate backup players however we need 6 nailed on starters brought in, those you mentioned, a new Keeper and reaplcements for Lawless and Crawford. 

[Onthefringes]

27 minutes ago, C&A not the shop said:

Yes I am. 

He would probably start ahead of Crawford.

Based on what? O’Hara not a no.6 type

[Yassin]

I wouldn't mind seeing Chapman get another chance

[clueless]

At the pie stall?

[joewarkfanclub]

20 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Eh? My point wasn’t budgetary, although how much we’ve utilised on an international defender may well be debatable. Who knows? Not party to that.

The numbers I alluded to were a streamlined squad will already have around 80% of its core already at the club & those retained. Add in the development players and this sprinkling of quality and we’re on bloated squad numbers... again. Simple logistics or too simplistic a view?

I’m seeing talk of a rebuild, adding quality - what are the expectations? Robbie Crawford for example, as a squad filler is a fanciful notion, where’s the improvement?

Sorry for misunderstanding your point. 

I dont have massive expectations.

I havent actually sat down and gone through who is still under contract and who has been offered new deals. However, it feels like we have about a dozen players who are sitting either injured or cooling their heels offering nothing. A number of these are loan players or short term contracts whom I presume will be allowed to leave. It may not be as many as that of course.

I just presumed there mighy be a little leeway to bring one or 2 in of slightly higher quality that would improve the first 11 if we were clearing the decks of the deadwood.

[Onthefringes]

3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Sorry for misunderstanding your point. 

I dont have massive expectations.

I havent actually sat down and gone through who is still under contract and who has been offered new deals. However, it feels like we have about a dozen players who are sitting either injured or cooling their heels offering nothing. A number of these are loan players or short term contracts whom I presume will be allowed to leave. It may not be as many as that of course.

I just presumed there mighy be a little leeway to bring one or 2 in of slightly higher quality that would improve the first 11 if we were clearing the decks of the deadwood.

More hope for adding quality than expectation for me. Opportunity has knocked for that each of the last three seasons yet, we’ve not taken that chance. Change afoot & I’ll maintain its fair to reserve judgement.

Just not enamoured at current direction.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Martin Foy ... getting a P45?

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 4/15/2021 at 2:10 AM, fizoxy said:

2 right backs - O'donnell, Grimshaw

How the fuck can Grimshaw STILL be hanging about next season?

Fucking tipp-ex the contract or something!

[C&A not the shop]

19 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Based on what? O’Hara not a no.6 type

I know you're not a fan but I think he adds some good physicality. Covers the park well and wins a lot in the air and drives the game forward well.  Maybe too similar to Donnelly so I take your point.

Then again I'm not a football manager by a long way so probably miles off.

[C&A not the shop]

19 hours ago, Kmac said:

If we want to finish higher in the league than this season, neither Crawford or Lawless can be considered as starters. Both are adequate backup players however we need 6 nailed on starters brought in, those you mentioned, a new Keeper and reaplcements for Lawless and Crawford. 

I think we will be looking to finish around the top 6 spot somewhere between 5 and 9th will be a realistic target and I think that squad is going to be around that level assuming we can fill the gaps well, aren't too unlucky with injuries and Alexander gets its mostly right tactically.

 

Are you saying the squad isn't good enough to do that or that we should be aiming higher than that?

[C&A not the shop]

And now going totally against everything I've said about the reduced squad and only bringing in a few players etc.

 

Do we think Harry Cochrane is worth a punt? Not getting his contract renewed at Hearts, still young and was highly thought of, from the local area apparently and I'm assuming no fee for training compensation due if he's not been offered a contract?

I'm not saying we should bring him in bit i think there's a discussion to be had.

[wellsince75]

3 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

How the fuck can Grimshaw STILL be hanging about next season?

Grimmie didn't come in as right back - he's a midfield player. 

A hard working player with limited ability.  A bit like Crawford in that respect, prob decent people to have around the club but not first team players . 

[wellsince75]

29 minutes ago, C&A not the shop said:

I know you're not a fan but I think he adds some good physicality. Covers the park well and wins a lot in the air and drives the game forward well.  Maybe too similar to Donnelly so I take your point.

 

I'm a big fan of O'Hara - personal view is he's our best midfielder (excluding Campbell) and much better than others are coming forward/passing etc. 

 A modifield with Donnelly, Campbell, Ohara, Polworth) always meant that 2 stayed back and 2 moved forward.  

Personal view this is the balance that got us to 3rd in the league v's the off balance we've had this season. 

[Neilwell86]

40 minutes ago, C&A not the shop said:

I think we will be looking to finish around the top 6 spot somewhere between 5 and 9th will be a realistic target and I think that squad is going to be around that level assuming we can fill the gaps well, aren't too unlucky with injuries and Alexander gets its mostly right tactically.

 

Are you saying the squad isn't good enough to do that or that we should be aiming higher than that?

between 5th and 9th sounds about right, saying that the league next season will be as competitive as it's been in a long time, Rangers, Celtic, Hibs, Aberdeen, Hearts, Dundee utd all back in the top flight for the first time in a long time, you'd imagine St johnstone will be strong again, St Mirren could spend a few quid again, Livi will be Livi. 

on Harry Cochrane, it appears as though he was offered a new deal and chose not to sign it, so Development would be due, very highly rated, would it be worth a gamble? would imagine Dundee utd or maybe even Aberdeen would also be sniffing about,.

[Onthefringes]

1 hour ago, C&A not the shop said:

I know you're not a fan but I think he adds some good physicality. Covers the park well and wins a lot in the air and drives the game forward well.  Maybe too similar to Donnelly so I take your point.

Then again I'm not a football manager by a long way so probably miles off.

It can be argued he offers little of what you say. Certainly doesn’t drive the game forward well - that’s a myth.

Spectacular failing for me is not protecting the back 4. The physicality and covering the park well you speak of has contributed plenty of value for the opposition especially in the early part of the season.

He’s that good, Robbie Crawford is an upgrade. Let that sink in.