2021/2022 Rebuild

[0Neils40yarder]

The weekly figure that I've heard he is signing for is a wee bit disappointing...I'd have thought we could have stretched to that. Maybe we could have, but didn't want to?

[joewarkfanclub]

Very disappointed if this is true.

No issues with a player leaving to better themselves and earn more money, especially one who has done so well for us. But to a league rival, for not that much more money?

It makes the badge kissing and goal celebrations look totally ridiculous and doesnt paint Tony in a very good light.

Probably best if he moves on immediately. I dont think the reaction from the East Stand will be very positive. He is lucky there will only be 500 fans there tomorrow.

Of course, if this is all shite, he could easily come out before the game and say so.......

[Stevie73]

Looks like it’s true about Tony Watt’s move, no disrespect but he is another clubs player, time to give Connor Shields and Big VV a go, onwards and upwards COYW

[Yorkyred]

39 minutes ago, Stevie73 said:

Looks like it’s true about Tony Watt’s move, no disrespect but he is another clubs player, time to give Connor Shields and Big VV a go, onwards and upwards COYW

I think that’s the way to look at it. I tend to ignore any statement from players giving indications they are happy and want to stay, they only want to stay if they can get a big increase in wages, it’s really got nothing to do with ambition, that is the ambition. We’ve got players that can earn more moving to none league clubs down in England.

[Kmcalpin]

The club will hopefully know more than we do and I trust Graham Alexander & Alan Burrows to handle this situation well. I don't think GA will be bullied by anyone, as we saw last season. Its important that the club stands firm on this move, again, if confirmed.

Pre contract agreements aside, the club will have put a value on Tony Watt if he moves on this month. They should stick rigidly to that. As it stands, each league place is worth about £80K to us, and of course there's the possibility of a cup run. These factors set a financial benchmark for us. The club should make crystal clear to any club that wants to sign Tony Watt that if they want him this month then they have to meet 2 criteria. Firstly, the fee should meet our valuation and secondly, the deal should be done by a set date i.e. not 31 January at midnight, to allow us to source a replacement. The only exception to that is if the bid offers silly money in a good way. 

As far as Dundee United is concerned, they are heavily in debt but are a bigger club, but not massively so. I'd guess their fanbase is about 1,500 more than ours.  They have previous for being ruthless in their transfer dealings and so if true, this tabloid story doesn't surprise me. Can they afford this? Probably not but what has that got to do with it. If they want him this month they'll probably offer a modest 5 figure sum, which should be assertively rejected.

As far as Tony Watt is concerned, I've never bought into the badge kissing, after the Simo Valakari days. For many players, though not all, money is the only thing that matters. I've no problem with him signing a pre contract agreement with United or anyone else and moving on for family reasons or more money at the end of the season.  What I do have a massive problem with is the way this has been leaked to attempt to bully our club into letting him go early. As I've said, if I had my way he'd stay at Fir Park until the summer unless our criteria are met. If not the ball is in his court as to whether he plays or not. If he shows the right attitude then he plays if not then he sits in the stand.

[smiddy]

46 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

The club will hopefully know more than we do and I trust Graham Alexander & Alan Burrows to handle this situation well. I don't think GA will be bullied by anyone, as we saw last season. Its important that the club stands firm on this move, again, if confirmed.

Pre contract agreements aside, the club will have put a value on Tony Watt if he moves on this month. They should stick rigidly to that. As it stands, each league place is worth about £80K to us, and of course there's the possibility of a cup run. These factors set a financial benchmark for us. The club should make crystal clear to any club that wants to sign Tony Watt that if they want him this month then they have to meet 2 criteria. Firstly, the fee should meet our valuation and secondly, the deal should be done by a set date i.e. not 31 January at midnight, to allow us to source a replacement. The only exception to that is if the bid offers silly money in a good way. 

As far as Dundee United is concerned, they are heavily in debt but are a bigger club, but not massively so. I'd guess their fanbase is about 1,500 more than ours.  They have previous for being ruthless in their transfer dealings and so if true, this tabloid story doesn't surprise me. Can they afford this? Probably not but what has that got to do with it. If they want him this month they'll probably offer a modest 5 figure sum, which should be assertively rejected.

As far as Tony Watt is concerned, I've never bought into the badge kissing, after the Simo Valakari days. For many players, though not all, money is the only thing that matters. I've no problem with him signing a pre contract agreement with United or anyone else and moving on for family reasons or more money at the end of the season.  What I do have a massive problem with is the way this has been leaked to attempt to bully our club into letting him go early. As I've said, if I had my way he'd stay at Fir Park until the summer unless our criteria are met. If not the ball is in his court as to whether he plays or not. If he shows the right attitude then he plays if not then he sits in the stand.

am inn with you 

[mfc]

40 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

The club will hopefully know more than we do and I trust Graham Alexander & Alan Burrows to handle this situation well. I don't think GA will be bullied by anyone, as we saw last season. Its important that the club stands firm on this move, again, if confirmed.

Pre contract agreements aside, the club will have put a value on Tony Watt if he moves on this month. They should stick rigidly to that. As it stands, each league place is worth about £80K to us, and of course there's the possibility of a cup run. These factors set a financial benchmark for us. The club should make crystal clear to any club that wants to sign Tony Watt that if they want him this month then they have to meet 2 criteria. Firstly, the fee should meet our valuation and secondly, the deal should be done by a set date i.e. not 31 January at midnight, to allow us to source a replacement. The only exception to that is if the bid offers silly money in a good way. 

As far as Dundee United is concerned, they are heavily in debt but are a bigger club, but not massively so. I'd guess their fanbase is about 1,500 more than ours.  They have previous for being ruthless in their transfer dealings and so if true, this tabloid story doesn't surprise me. Can they afford this? Probably not but what has that got to do with it. If they want him this month they'll probably offer a modest 5 figure sum, which should be assertively rejected.

As far as Tony Watt is concerned, I've never bought into the badge kissing, after the Simo Valakari days. For many players, though not all, money is the only thing that matters. I've no problem with him signing a pre contract agreement with United or anyone else and moving on for family reasons or more money at the end of the season.  What I do have a massive problem with is the way this has been leaked to attempt to bully our club into letting him go early. As I've said, if I had my way he'd stay at Fir Park until the summer unless our criteria are met. If not the ball is in his court as to whether he plays or not. If he shows the right attitude then he plays if not then he sits in the stand.

You've made some good points there.utd must have offered a big signing on fee,like they did when they got shankland and for that reason I can't see them then offering us anywhere near enough that would tempt us to sell in january.i would sell him if we got a half decent price but I think he's here to the end of the season,your last point about watts attitude is the most important thing for me as this could turn sour pretty quickly if his performances and attitude decline.i hope were looking at bringing in a striker in january to cover all bases.

[MJC]

Disappointing to hear that Watt is leaving and especially to those horrible cunts. I was resigned to him not being here next season but annoying it’s to Dundee Utd.

I hope he fails miserably with them.

[smiddy]

i agreed with kmc earlier    but    if he had to stay AND  was in contention for a scotland place ( ie  fraser not included  and possible injurys )  then he would need to be , as they say trying like frck so he possibly could still play if not then" watch that door doesnt hit yir fat erse on the way oot tony "

[texanwellfan]

My issue is not so much with Tony Watt as it is with the way we have found out. Would have been much better all round had an official announcement came from Fir Park which would have been able to also explain the details. Not intricate details but at least how it was going to work and when. Just now it’s just hanging there. Not sure if it s agent or Dundee Utd or who but should have been kept under wraps and announced when finalized. I also wonder how this has happened. Are there not fixed dates for when negotiations can take place? Obviously someone has been negotiating, are they violating any rules? Should be punished if they have done. 

[weeyin]

2 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

My issue is not so much with Tony Watt as it is with the way we have found out. Would have been much better all round had an official announcement came from Fir Park which would have been able to also explain the details. Not intricate details but at least how it was going to work and when. Just now it’s just hanging there. Not sure if it s agent or Dundee Utd or who but should have been kept under wraps and announced when finalized. I also wonder how this has happened. Are there not fixed dates for when negotiations can take place? Obviously someone has been negotiating, are they violating any rules? Should be punished if they have done. 

The club doesn't usually announce details of incoming or outgoing until deals are finalised and contracts signed.

Regardless of whether he goes in Jan or stays until the end of the season, we certainly did well from signing TW and he's another example of a resurrected career we can point to when we are recruiting a replacement. I'm sure GA has plans in place regardless of the outcome.

 

[Kmcalpin]

54 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

My issue is not so much with Tony Watt as it is with the way we have found out. Would have been much better all round had an official announcement came from Fir Park which would have been able to also explain the details. 

I wouldn't be too harsh on the club over the announcement or rather lack of one. We may have known he was moving on but no more. Its possible that Messrs Burrows and Alexander found out secondhand via the media. Our issue should be with Dundee United, Watt's agent or Watt himself. This announcement  wasn't down to loose talk in the pub it was quite deliberate. 

 

[Welldaft Mk1]

That fact it is Dundee United makes it very awkward as it would any competitor of ours in the top flight. I would even go as far to say this (if true as it would appear to be) is more of a kick in haw maws than Dec leaving for Aberdeen. Mainly because Dec was actually not playing that well and if I recall we did not find out until a lot later in the season. That plus top goalscorer in the league is going to be a bigger miss any way you look at it. 

Arguably he would be worth several hundred thousands in a transfer fee in Jan. But I see no way how Utd could afford that and unlikely we will settle for much less.  In situations like this in the real world more often than not an employee would be put on immediate gardening leave. 

But we could be left with a disgruntled player, Manager and fan base.  Big Questions to be answered. Does he start tomorrow. Probably no bad thing there are only 500 fans allowed to attend. Glad in a way I won’t be there.

He could be the consummate professional and give 100% until end of season. Tbh it would not matter to me. If this story is factual then I will hardly be able to bring myself to get excited when he scores or plays well.  As before it may seem petty, but it is how I will feel going forwards. 

 

[FirParkCornerExile]

2 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

That fact it is Dundee United makes it very awkward as it would any competitor of ours in the top flight. I would even go as far to say this (if true as it would appear to be) is more of a kick in haw maws than Dec leaving for Aberdeen. Mainly because Dec was actually not playing that well and if I recall we did not find out until a lot later in the season. That plus top goalscorer in the league is going to be a bigger miss any way you look at it. 

Arguably he would be worth several hundred thousands in a transfer fee in Jan. But I see no way how Utd could afford that and unlikely we will settle for much less.  In situations like this in the real world more often than not an employee would be put on immediate gardening leave. 

But we could be left with a disgruntled player, Manager and fan base.  Big Questions to be answered. Does he start tomorrow. Probably no bad thing there are only 500 fans allowed to attend. Glad in a way I won’t be there.

He could be the consummate professional and give 100% until end of season. Tbh it would not matter to me. If this story is factual then I will hardly be able to bring myself to get excited when he scores or plays well.  As before it may seem petty, but it is how I will feel going forwards. 

 

I know the arguments for playing him but afraid I'd be planning for the future. He can sit on the subs bench until his ultimate move. We need to get used to playing without him and hopefully GA has something to cover for his loss in the January window. As I've always said "Beware the Badge Kissers" it means fuck all.

[ropy]

If his attitude is right and his performances are good he is in the team, if not he is in the stand.  We can get used to playing without our top scorer next summer.

[FirParkCornerExile]

1 minute ago, ropy said:

If his attitude is right and his performances are good he is in the team, if not he is in the stand.  We can get used to playing without our top scorer next summer.

we can if we get decent replacements in the January window and the only way we will know is to play them.

 

[texanwellfan]

3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I wouldn't be too harsh on the club over the announcement or rather lack of one. We may have known he was moving on but no more. Its possible that Messrs Burrows and Alexander found out secondhand via the media. Our issue should be with Dundee United, Watt's agent or Watt himself. This announcement  wasn't down to loose talk in the pub it was quite deliberate. 

 

That was my point. Not upset with motherwell. Upset with whoever leaked it ahead of the club being able to say anything

[FirParkCornerExile]

Just now, texanwellfan said:

That was my point. Not upset with motherwell. Upset with whoever leaked it ahead of the club being able to say anything

it was extremely unhelpful. However our first team selections after the break should give Shields an extended run as well as Ross Tierney. Watt should only come into first team 1st choice thinking if we look like we are struggling. However initially someone whose signed for another SPL club should be down the pecking order. We got over the loss of Gallacher with little or no impact and TW will be replaceable , just remains to be seen if he replaceable in the short or medium term.

[texanwellfan]

I still find it hard to believe that him or his agent would have already accepted an offer from Dundee Utd. Rather than wait till end of season to see what offers are on the table. So I guess we will learn more over the coming few days. 

[gaz7]

If say watt is on 2k a week roughly 20wks till end may is 40k. I'm sure we could write that off and not play him and make him train with youths away from 1st team.  This could force utd hand into paying money for him the now so as not to get a player who's not played for 6 months when he goes.  Yes hes been gd for us and this may sound selfish but as I've said previously utd are big rivals for a top 6 spot and Europe so it would put them in a position. Theres no way a player who's signing a contract to go and play for someone else in 6 months is fully switched on for his present team. We need to call his bluff. 

[wellsince75]

it's a rock and hard place. 

if we let him go now - We move on but if he moves to Utd now we improve their season whilst making our worse - even a fee £2-300k doesn't make it worth it

keep him and he he could easily hold back, fall out the team etc. 

All in all this takes the jam out my donut, pre contracts should have some form of secrecy clause it's its poor for the player and existing club.  

[FirParkCornerExile]

1 minute ago, gaz7 said:

If say watt is on 2k a week roughly 20wks till end may is 40k. I'm sure we could write that off and not play him and make him train with youths away from 1st team.  This could force utd hand into paying money for him the now so as not to get a player who's not played for 6 months when he goes.  Yes hes been gd for us and this may sound selfish but as I've said previously utd are big rivals for a top 6 spot and Europe so it would put them in a position. Theres no way a player who's signing a contract to go and play for someone else in 6 months is fully switched on for his present team. We need to call his bluff. 

I wouldnt overtly punish him for exercising his rights I just think we should immediately seek replacements and give them a starting place before him. If it doesnt work by all means then start him.

[smiddy]

4 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

My issue is not so much with Tony Watt as it is with the way we have found out. Would have been much better all round had an official announcement came from Fir Park which would have been able to also explain the details. Not intricate details but at least how it was going to work and when. Just now it’s just hanging there. Not sure if it s agent or Dundee Utd or who but should have been kept under wraps and announced when finalized. I also wonder how this has happened. Are there not fixed dates for when negotiations can take place? Obviously someone has been negotiating, are they violating any rules? Should be punished if they have done. 

texan you know how secrets are kept  as if for instance say you daughter had the rona, that would be up to u if you tell  anybody , the same as thats uptp dundee utd  / to tell anyboby no what i mean     oh and a happy xmas to everybody / embody in texas     in case i do know embody u know what a mean  

[Spit_It_Out]

I would let him go if we get a decent offer for him easy.Why would I want a player who knows he is moving on to another club in the same league who we are up against?Sorry I don't grudge any player a move good luck to them but I find the whole 24th December pre contract thing a total kick in the balls and pretty bizarre!Christ even his Ps5 pal wasnt as brazen as that when he stopped kicking a ball for us.

I would take 40-50k and invest it elsewhere.

[FirParkCornerExile]

10 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I would let him go if we get a decent offer for him easy.Why would I want a player who knows he is moving on to another club in the same league who we are up against?Sorry I don't grudge any player a move good luck to them but I find the whole 24th December pre contract thing a total kick in the balls and pretty bizarre!Christ even his Ps5 pal wasnt as brazen as that when he stopped kicking a ball for us.

I would take 40-50k and invest it elsewhere.

There is an argument for that however the fact its another club who will be competing with us to possibly get 4th. I wouldn't potentially strengthen their team this season. Although the track record of guys leaving us an actually being successful is mixed at best. There are a few exceptions but most go on to achieve nothing ,  earn more yeah but never quoted again in terms of bettering themselves as players.  Murphy , Gallagher, Craig , Delameux, Cadden, Tait, Main  to name a few all ended up with or went straight to  up diddy SPFL clubs and frankly none have never made me worried about facing them.