Great Balls of Shire Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 8 hours ago, dennyc said: Bollocks. But if it makes you happy. the lad paterson, in his short spell, looks more comfortable on the ball.. sod always wants to go back because hes not comfortable taking a man on...when he switches off defensively like last night , it's not a great combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 Be interesting to see if we retain S'OD. Personal view if he stays is push him further up field. He's more effective moving forward than in defence. For Scotland last night was as lesson on how to play football, retain the ball and do the basics well. We were punished for lapses in concentration and not having the required quality in all areas of the park. Thankfully we have some very decent young guns coming through and the future looks brighter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 Very disappointing performance from O’Donnell and the majority of the team, bar Robertson and McGregor. After the first ten minutes it quickly became evident that we didn’t have the energy or tactical nous to cope with Croatia and we invited a Modric masterclass. Plenty for Steve Clarke to reflect on, the balance of the midfield was wrong in the two Hampden games and I’m not sure I’ll ever understand why we switched to two non goalscoring strikers for this tournament. Nevertheless, it’s been an absolute joy to be part of, providing the greatest excitement and anticipation I’ve experienced in football for many a year. Back to reality with a bump though and time to get up to speed with these new Motherwell signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 9 hours ago, weeyin said: It's like watching Motherwell… Watching and supporting Scotland gives fans of more successful domestic teams an insight of what it’s like to support a provincial club like Motherwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 Patterson should get the nod going forward (if you excuse the pun). There is a level of performance you need to attain to be an international player and O'Donnell after nearly 20 caps hasn't got there. He's not the only one or even the worst offender. Unlike some of our more illustrious names he's played much closer to his potential but I'm afraid that still isn't good enough for international football. Guys like Nisbet, Turnbull, Gilmour are the future. Guys like Dykes, Armstrong, McGregor, Christie, McBurnie and O'Donnell have had had their chance and need to take a step backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Balls of Shire Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Patterson should get the nod going forward (if you excuse the pun). There is a level of performance you need to attain to be an international player and O'Donnell after nearly 20 caps hasn't got there. He's not the only one or even the worst offender. Unlike some of our more illustrious names he's played much closer to his potential but I'm afraid that still isn't good enough for international football. Guys like Nisbet, Turnbull, Gilmour are the future. Guys like Dykes, Armstrong, McGregor, Christie, McBurnie and O'Donnell have had had their chance and need to take a step backwards. this has been the way for years , we go through cycles without achieving much and chop players hoping for something better. I've seen Armstrong, Christie and macgregor do enough in the past to think they've got something. if we had a Luke macmodric or a bale, kane etc, it would make these guys play much better .The others, you mentioned, I agree can step back You cant underestimate the importance of having special players when you step up a level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Patterson should get the nod going forward (if you excuse the pun). There is a level of performance you need to attain to be an international player and O'Donnell after nearly 20 caps hasn't got there. He's not the only one or even the worst offender. Unlike some of our more illustrious names he's played much closer to his potential but I'm afraid that still isn't good enough for international football. Guys like Nisbet, Turnbull, Gilmour are the future. Guys like Dykes, Armstrong, McGregor, Christie, McBurnie and O'Donnell have had had their chance and need to take a step backwards. McGregor and Christie are far from finished. Both have been integral parts of our upturn in fortunes but sadly neither came into the tournament in good form. Hopefully Turnbull gets his chance soon enough but he presumably didn’t impress in training despite having a decent game against the Netherlands. I do think/hope Clarke will regret persisting with two non goalscoring strikers when Christie, Fraser, Forrest and Turnbull have all got what it takes to contribute in the final third. The long ball tactic needs to be put in the bin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 As much as it pains me to say it, if we want to even dream about doing anything at international level, there is no way anyone playing for Motherwell should be in the squad, never mind the starting 11. Irony is, O'Donnell played every game, while one of the guys we should be looking to, moved to Celtic and never got a sniff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 10 hours ago, The African said: I saw the comment as being tongue in cheek and more about the world we live in rather than disparaging the player. These days, you are only as good as your last twenty minutes of play, with only two options, great or grotty. Of course, I could be wrong. Yes and no...for me, he is completely lost at that level and was comfortable our poorest performer last night despite the best efforts of Armstrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 We have some very promising emerging talent in the form of Gilmour and Turnbull, who may fulfill their promise. Others too may emerge. However our fortunes won't change until our entire system is taken apart and rebuilt. If we were to start this tomorrow it may bear fruit for major tournaments in say 10 years time. There is no short term fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 On the flip side, the emergence of Gilmour, Patterson et all are the elite programme who’s origins are around a decade since starting to bear fruit. It’s about our coaching evolving beyond the current networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkySuperSub Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said: We have some very promising emerging talent in the form of Gilmour and Turnbull, who may fulfill their promise. Others too may emerge. However our fortunes won't change until our entire system is taken apart and rebuilt. If we were to start this tomorrow it may bear fruit for major tournaments in say 10 years time. There is no short term fix. Maybe it is time for another Ernie Walker / Henry McLeish style "Think Tank" that provided so much success after previous tournament trouncings...?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 Just now, KirkySuperSub said: Maybe it is time for another Ernie Walker / Henry McLeish style "Think Tank" that provided so much success after previous tournament trouncings...?! No, just a change of regime at the SFA that is actually willing to implement suggestions without bowing to vested interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 Academy systems that favour power & strength over technical ability won’t offer any help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkySuperSub Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: No, just a change of regime at the SFA that is actually willing to implement suggestions without bowing to vested interests. Personally, I would say that there's as much chance of that as there is success from an Ernie Walker / Henry McLeish style "Think Tank"...! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellwell91 Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 hours ago, steelboy said: O'Donnell cost the first goal with his shite attempt at a header. It reminded of me the Celtic game last November. It was a very poor performance all in and the tactics that worked against England were easy for Croatia and especially Modric to nulify. Armstrong was horrific, Tierney looked unfit and Dykes never kicked a ball after halftime. Nothing has really changed for Scotland. If you don't have any good centre halves or strikers any international side will struggle. Along with Robertson who was 10 yards off the winger which left him all the time in the world to deliver a great cross and McGregor who let the goal score run off him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said: Yes and no...for me, he is completely lost at that level and was comfortable our poorest performer last night despite the best efforts of Armstrong Disagree. Put together a 5 minute highlight reel of why we went out and you'll have a couple of contributions from O'Donnell where he arguably could have done better alongside plenty from almost every other player on the pitch (who are all on 5/10 times his club wage) - the biggest culprits being our midfielders and forwards who missed plenty of half chances and a few absolute sitters that could have turned all three games in our favour. Likewise, put together a highlight reel of positive passages of play and chances created and you'll have O'Donnell playing his part there. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 hours ago, bobbybingo said: As much as it pains me to say it, if we want to even dream about doing anything at international level, there is no way anyone playing for Motherwell should be in the squad, never mind the starting 11. Irony is, O'Donnell played every game, while one of the guys we should be looking to, moved to Celtic and never got a sniff. If Turnbull had stayed at Fir Park he would have played all season and would very likely have been brought into the squad earlier than he was. That would have increased his likelihood of playing. Move to the Celtic and stay as you are, play for the ‘Well and be a superstar. Or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, ropy said: If Turnbull had stayed at Fir Park he would have played all season and would very likely have been brought into the squad earlier than he was. That would have increased his likelihood of playing. Move to the Celtic and stay as you are, play for the ‘Well and be a superstar. Or something. We wish. It's hard to imagine any player of the standard required for a decent international side being at Fir Park these days. Any young guy coming through would be off before they got called up and no established international is gonnae come here. The fact a 29 and 30 year old who played for us last season found themselves in that team/squad shows you how far away Scotland are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: We wish. It's hard to imagine any player of the standard required for a decent international side being at Fir Park these days. Any young guy coming through would be off before they got called up and no established international is gonnae come here. The fact a 29 and 30 year old who played for us last season found themselves in that team/squad shows you how far away Scotland are. OK who would you have in at right back for Scotland then apart from SOD with over 20 caps behind him in experience? Clarke brought on the new Maldini if you believe the blue uglies for a 10 min run out, do you seriously think Patterson with only a handful of 1st team games would have coped starting against any of the other 3 teams in the group, I think not. SOD was in the squad on merit, starting all 3 games on merit and coped very well one or 2 dodgy moments but generally a decent 3 games, and we're it not for a great save from Pickford he could have had he winner v England, so why don't you cut him some slack. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 An unfashionable Club such as Motherwell have two players and a former Academy player in the first Scottish squad to reach a final in decades. And yet all that some on here want to do is decry the performance of one of our players that played in every match, bemoan the level we are at as a Club and talk down the level of Scottish football in general. Sad. In fact, pathetic. The future of the national side is rosier than it has been for years, if Clarke is brave and determined enough to trust the youth coming through to support established players like Tierney, Robertson, McGinn and McTominey. And as a Club we were better represented than clubs with much better resources than us. Something to be proud of. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, dennyc said: An unfashionable Club such as Motherwell have two players and a former Academy player in the first Scottish squad to reach a final in decades. And yet all that some on here want to do is decry the performance of one of our players that played in every match, bemoan the level we are at as a Club and talk down the level of Scottish football in general. Sad. In fact, pathetic. The future of the national side is rosier than it has been for years, if Clarke is brave and determined enough to trust the youth coming through to support established players like Tierney, Robertson, McGinn and McTominey. And as a Club we were better represented than clubs with much better resources than us. Something to be proud of. It's better than it has been but it doesn't mean much. The sharp end of international football is extremely competitive and your not going to get the vital wins against the likes of Denmark or Austria with 2/3rds of a good team. We don't have a goalkeeper, McKenna is apparently our second best centre back and Adams has potential but after that we have nothing up front and the cupboard is bare right down through the age groups. We were the least experienced squad in the tournament and we compounded that by starting different defensive and midfield trios in every game which had either never played together before or only once or twice. Clarke has only started the same team in consecutive matches once some of which is down to injuries but a lot of it has been pandering to clubs. That bit him on the arse over the past 8 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 For me O’Donnell middle of the pack. Better than some not as good as others. Would like to have seen him maybe try to take players on but balance that by saying he very rarely gives the ball away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 How much dough did we make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 54 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: OK who would you have in at right back for Scotland then apart from SOD with over 20 caps behind him in experience? Clarke brought on the new Maldini if you believe the blue uglies for a 10 min run out, do you seriously think Patterson with only a handful of 1st team games would have coped starting against any of the other 3 teams in the group, I think not. SOD was in the squad on merit, starting all 3 games on merit and coped very well one or 2 dodgy moments but generally a decent 3 games, and we're it not for a great save from Pickford he could have had he winner v England, so why don't you cut him some slack. I don't need to cut him some slack because I didn't single him out for criticism. I don't know him personally, but he seems like a nice guy anytime I hear him speak. On that level I was happy he played and delighted he shut up the folk who went after him following the Czech game. To see 2 Wishy guys playing in a Scotland team at Wembley was brilliant. That being said, when you think of the standard required to take on opposition like Croatia in major tournaments, he falls short, like quite a few others did last night. It's not a personal attack on Stephen O'Donnell, or anyone else who turns up and plays, but no one who watched us last season would imagine that side would provide players for a Scotland squad that was destined to get out the group. As for Patterson, I was bemused when Clarke brought him on. I've no idea if he's as good as some say, but our sake, I hope he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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